OmegaConsort
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Posts posted by OmegaConsort
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With such an historic original instrument surely funding can be found for a proper organ! However, does anyone know what has happened to the original, it sounds like it has gone on the skip.
I have just been into the church which is now gutted. It will be closed for one year. The floor is coming up, the walls are being replastered and the ceiling reguilded. Major construction will be carried out underneath to form new meeting rooms.
The organ was taken away as described earlier in another post...I found out that much did go for scrap (but only old casework which was late victorian, bellows and the like). The rest of it (pipework, soundboards, console etc) is, i think gone to Goetze and Gwynn. I assume that at somepoint, it is going to be rebuilt in the church?
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What a fascinating post - thanks so much for all the information MM! I dont know either of the churches or their organs, but was nevertheless very interested to read what you had to say. I did play the Bridlington organ once (when I was 12, on holiday!). It is the only experience I had of this builder and I remember, it blew me out of my seat!
It seems a real shame if these instruments were simply broken up and thrown away.
All rather depressing really - which leads me to another point (as much "off-thread" as we currently are in "Youtube"!), if Cynic were still a member of this forum, I bet he would now be posting telling us he has half the Bradford pipework in his house organ; not only that, but he would probably list all the pipe scales too!
Am I the only one who not only misses his brilliant posts and responses to posts, but also feel over the last couple of months that his absence makes this forum feel rather less interesting than it should be?
Who is brave enough to start a "bring back Cynic" post then? And whilst we are at it, perhaps Lee Blick should be asked to return!
Best wishes
Richard
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Hi
It was removed in 1974, having been much altered in the meantime
- details at http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi...ec_index=N04823
Every Blessing
Tony
Thanks for that Tony. Do you know what happened to the organ (I see the 32 flute was transferred to the new instrument)? Also, now the church is closed, do you know what the fate of the most recent instrument is?
Best wishes
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I wonder if these builders, having lived in a world of electronic organs for so long, without so much regular exposure to real pipe organs, have started to loose touch with what a real pipe organ sounds like as their ears have acclimatised to the sounds from speakers?
What an exceedingly interesting point you make. I am sure that they compare each other regularly, but I wonder how often they actually listen to a real organ - even a single rank drawn and played up the keyboard from the bottom to the top; what an exciting and interesting journey that can be on a 19th century village organ somewhere in the wilds!
I must now shut down my computer!
Best wishes
Richard
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Custom built - How exciting!
DW
Yes - sorry David - my use of wording was not well considered. I hope you accept my apologies! What I meant was, it isn't an "off the shelf" model so I am told. The spec will be unique, the console and layout will be specific for the church etc etc...tho I suspect whatever I say will be torched, and quite rightly so!
Best wishes
Richard
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Yes. I was judging on what it looked like as obviously it couldn't he heard but the console was clearly 20th cent.
Malcolm
The toaster is a three-manual Eminent Cantata with drawstops. Amps and speakers are on the West End gallery. This is a temporary instrument. I think the idea is that after the church restoration is completed the church will purchase a custom-built three-manual Eminent using the existing amps and speakers.
Richard
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So, yet another 20th century Cathedral Music figure has passed away. The "old fraternity" is indeed shrinking; Francis Jackson and Stanley Vann are presumably now the last of that generation?
Is Richard Seal of their generation, or a bit younger? Whichever, he also has/had some rather special qualities as a choir trainer, mentor, conductor etc.....
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Fully agreed- Triptych is multi-tracked Piano, Organ and Harpsichord. Nightwatch was the first CD of organ improvisations from SJD that I came across, remastered from an old LP, but well worth a listen.
I had the chance to go to one of the Winter Solstice concerts in December 2004 and it was quite an event, with 'world music artists' joining the Paul Winter Consort- even though this was during the silence of the SJD organ post-fire, it was still a tremendous musical occasion and visual spectacle- saxophone and organ certainly work well together, and though Halley was not performing by this stage, many of his compositions and arrangements for the consort were still being used.
Ditto me too! Years ago I bought Nightwatch on LP and managed to get the CD on ebay a little while ago - it is really good! You can listen on Spotify - a lot of his stuff is uploaded...well worth a go!
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Lichfield Cathedral is a good example when it comes to badly positioned organs.
Before the addition of the Nave organ in 2000, the main instrument failed to make any impact in the Cathedral whatsoever...
EC
Surely this is the case with many of our cathedral organs En Chamade? Off the top of my head, the following suffer similar problems to Lichfield - Winchester, Salisbury, Ely, Canterbury, Worcester, Southwark, and so the list goes on. In fact, any Cathedral where the organ is positioned in either the Quire or a transept.
Having said that, the primary purpose and use of a cathedral organ is to accompany the services which are mostly held in the Quire. Therefore it could be argued that these instruments are perfectly positioned for the role in which they were designed!
An added problem with Lichfield is the acoustic which is very dry indeed.
Best wishes
Richard
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Doh! Thanks Stephen - searched for ages and came up with nothing! Mind you , having now looked at the site, it is not particularly information-rich is it! Nice photo of the new case tho
Best wishes
richard
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Thanks for this information Martin. I would love to go and see the new organ sometime and am pleased to read it is now installed.
I just tried to find a website for the church - there doesnt seem to be one which I find most suprising for such an important building. Also, NPOR is not yet up-to-date and there are no location photos on the H&H website either.
Ah well - I'll just have to drive over and see it!!
Richard
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Just about the choral side, why is the Grove not suitable for these? Is it so very sharp?
I wouldn't know about the pitch of the Grove, but I would have thought that the location of the instrument (hidden away in the North Transept, with the console on the Eastern side) would make it very difficult to use alongside an orchestra at the head of the nave?
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To return, probably briefly, to the topic of the organs in Tewkesbury Abbey, this thread brought to mind the Advent Carol Services held there in the 1970s. These were organised by Hugh Shelton and sung by his choir of trebles from the Chapel Choir of the Blue Coat School, Birmingham augmented by altos, tenors and basses from various establishments in the area. In the years that I attended, John Pryer played the Milton organ and Nigel Morris the Elliott.
Did any other members ever attend?
Yes! I sang in this 3 times in the early/mid 1980's as an alto dep with St Mary's Warwick, who sang with the Bluecoat School Choir (nearly all items combined but one or two solo slots for each choir). I remember the three services vividly - fantastic atmosphere, packed house, and brilliant playing from John Pryer who improvised at the end on the Grove organ (the rest of the service was played by John Belcher on the Milton organ with its 5 manual Walker console). Simon Lole conducted some items and a chap (whose name escapes me from the School), did the rest.
I dont ever remember the Elliot organ being used.
Best wishes
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I also wondered where the church was.
Given the carnage that the Triffids were inflicting upon the blind remnants of society, I was mildly amused to see that the church had a fully functioning organ and robed boys choir.
Overall I thought it was a pretty poor show, although Eddie Izzard was rather good
Yes....I spotted the organ working too - and it was not long after they discussed trying to get the electricity working and decided not to!
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Did anyone see this two part film (a remake on the old original) over Christmas? I thought it was very gripping!
Anyway, in part two, the two chaps stumbled upon a convent. There were many external shots of the abbey church and one or two internals.....I couldn't place it at first and am still not sure (there was nothing in the credits).
I have a feeling it might be the Abbey Church of St Cross in Winchester - along with their alms houses.....
Any takers?
Richard
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I am sure that Manders have quite enough work not to worry too much.
Colin Richell.
I am willing to be corrected on this, but I would have thought that during the current economic climate no builder is too busy to be worried.
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I am still struggling to understand why this board seems so anti-Arthur Harrison.
Bazuin
I wouldn't say that is the case! I, and no doubt many others are big fans of Harrison organs (I am also a Willis, Hill, Tickell, etc etc fan). Each builder has good and bad points not necessarily per instrument. One thing about Harrison, as others have mentioned is the wonderful consoles such as Redcliffe and Durham (the same care and attention is also poured into many small organ consoles by the same builders). I also love the Willis House look from the early to mid 20th century with the black jambs...
Richard
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This could be in another thread, but does anybody know when the Worcester Cathedral Nave organ will start to be built, its builder, and any info. on it?
Are they still using the old nave toaster or the rodgers one?
If I remember correctly the old nave "Bradford" organ was sold on Ebay a little while ago. Don't know about the Rodgers one
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Thank you for all this Freddie - we will indeed watch this space! Perhaps you might like to start a new post for the Hoar Cross instrument as news comes in, and....welcome to the Mander Board!
Best wishes
Richard
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OK.
Moderator, Mander Organs
Please don't Cynic....sleep on it...tomorrow is another day and I for one feel the discussions on this board would be shorn of a great deal of illuminating information and jolly commentary if you resign.
I have no idea which builder you are talking about, and don't need to know either, but the Mander Organs board is probably not the appropriate place to hang out dirty washing in terms of competitors' wrong doings....despite your obviously strong feelings regarding this.
On another subject which is (almost) taboo - digital organs - I have great interest, but since JPM's appeal not to discuss them, I have stopped; not because my interest in them has ceased but because I respect the stance of moderator on this subject because of what Manders is and what it stands for.
A final shot.........reading through the last four or so posts it looks to me like both sides have got hot under the collar and should go away and reflect......I am sure that JPM would (tomorrow) be as sad as the rest of us if Cynic did resign..
Best wishes
Richard
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What, Stainer's? It beautiful in my opinion!
Peter
More like quirky in my opinion and it befuddles the congregation (although I suppose that might be considered a good thing!!).
Richard
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I'm always intrigued to see what repertoire (both organ and choral) interests other people on this board, so here's a poser - pick the music for your ideal Evensong service! That is to say, the music which you would include in a service encompassing your favourites.
Nice idea!
Harris - Holy is the true light
Shephard Responses
Blair in B minor
Wesley - The Wilderness
Final volley - Fanfare Whitlock
Richard
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Paul Hale, in his latest contribution to Organists' Review (St. Etheldreda's Church, Ely Place, London) asserts that J. F. Bentley, architect of Westminster Cathedral, "regularly worked with the organbuilder T. C. Lewis, most notably at Westminster Cathedral in the first decade of the twentieth century, where they installed a twin-cased Apse Organ..."
I know that "old man" T. C. Lewis was still, shall we say, "dabbling" in Organ building in 1910 ( a good decade or so after his association with Lewis & Co Ltd effectively ceased) but is there ANYONE who can confirm who built the Apse Organ, Thomas Christopher Lewis himself, OR, Lewis & Co Ltd ??
If the organ was built by Lewis & Co Ltd, the job number should be plentifully teeped here & there within the instrument, even allowing for the (regrettable?) 1984 alterations. A 1910 Lewis & Co that I know well is, for example, job no 828.
Furthermore, Paul Hale describes the Apse Organ as having a "strange" stoplist - I have never heard anything other than complimentary remarks regarding the "effect" of this stoplist.
Any information appreciated !
I guess everyone must be on holiday! Interesting question which I cannot answer just now, tho I am sure I have something tucked away with a possible answer somewhere.
On the same subject tho, I was in Westminster Cathedral a few weeks ago. If you walk up the North Aisle of the nave, and into the central altar area, but staying on the North side, up high on the transept wall (I know there isn't a a real transept!), are what appears to be a few ranks of pipes set back in a shallow gallery (metal and wood).....
Does anyone know what that is about? Is it connected to the Apse organ?
Richard
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I fail to see how one person can give a concert, which the OED defines to be "a musical performance in which several performers take part".
Pianists and singers don't shy away from the word "recital" - why should organists?
Here! Here! sense at last.....having read through recent posts concerning attracting audiences, it all smacked a little of dumbing down. At the end of the day call it what you will, but someone playing the organ in a church or a concert hall is going to attract an audience of a size that is governed by so many factors, many of which are not alterable by either the performer or the publicist (weather, location, oposing attractions.....). I can't imagine Martha Argerich giving a piano concert at the Wigmore Hall; can you? If one agrees with that, then why should Simon Preston (for example) give an organ concert at Westminster Abbey?
Stainer's Crucifixion
in General discussion
Posted
I pretty much agree with all the positive comments here.......again, one or two strange moments don't otherwise distract from what is a well-written work which is as pleasing for the performers as it is for the listeners (both high and low-brow).
I used to sing it as a boy every Good Friday, but really came to appreciate it through the Barry Rose Guildford recording which is still the best for atmosphere in my mind.
finally aren't those hymn tunes to die for...Ooops - unfortunate turn of phrase!
Richard