Goldsmith
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Posts posted by Goldsmith
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The greater part of the Ch Ch recordings with Nimbus were done at Dorchester Abbey; and the organ at Merton is pretty weedy - you wouldn't go there for the sake of the organ.
Paul
Actually, I think a fair few Nimbus Ch Ch recordings were made at Leominster Priory?
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I've been given a setting of the Gloria In Excelsis by a member of the congregation with no composer's name, title, or publisher. I wondered if someone here could help identify it.
It's a responsorial setting with the response being "Gloria, gloria in excelsis Deo" twice with a melody in 4/4:
E. d C- | G. f E- | A G E F |E- D- ||E. d C- | G. f E- | A A G C' |B- C'-
[X = crotchet, x = quaver, X. = dotted crotchet, X- = minim]
The solo verses are the text from Common Worship, I think, written in 2/4 in a cross between speech rhythm and metrical.
Many thanks for any help.
Michael
If memory serves, it's the 'Lourdes' Gloria by Jean-Paul Lecot. I'm pretty sure the music is in Hymns Old and New.
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Could those who are familiar with the RAH advise on a good place to listen to the organ?
Planning to hear John Scott there in Octobre and not familiar which such large halls (haven't got them in Holland ;-))
I'd say go for the cheap seats: front of the circle, but not to close...
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A fine document, long to download (12 MB):
http://www.walckerorgel.de/gewalcker.de/PD...STgeorges02.pdf
Pierre
Thank you for this. A real treasure!
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Yet another sad tale of a church with a very fine organ
to be replaced with a digital organ. The organ was restored in 1976 and GTB gave the opening recital.
the specification ,please see the following link:-
the organ has unfortunately has been ciphering due to damage done by a previous director of music to the church and cost needed to restore is over £200,000 which of the course the church does not have.
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')Three Open Diapasons on the Great plus a Sifflote...?
Someone hoping to 'add brightness' no doubt.
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A three-rank mixture would have been more useful, ideally along the lines of the mixture which H&H added to the Willis organ of Lincoln Cathedral in 1960, commencing at 22-26-29. This might have introduced some real brightness to this instrument.
God save us from the spirit of 'improvement'...
'Brightness' - the '60s, 70's, 80's etc. counterpart to Edwardian 'smoothness'...
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Oh bugger it, I knew I shouldn't have drunk so much that night. I have no idea any more. I've always thought it was Holy Trinity, but looks like I'm very wrong!
I do remember that this was the concert after which my car got stolen, then found abandoned round the corner with no ignition electrics in it. Being a poor student at the time, and due to be playing in Southampton that morning, I got the nice RAC man to teach me to hot wire it. Unfortunately I stalled it on Hyde Park Corner, so had to get out of the car, stuck my rear in the face of the oncoming traffic, and hot wire it again... All good fun...
I very much doubt it was Brompton Oratory. The Walker/Downes organ is in at the back of a gallery on the south side of the nave, which it shares with the console and the choir. It's probably RD's finest organ, three manuals and not enormous:
http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=N18498
The Church, however, IS enormous. A picture of the choir:
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No, sometimes he sings whole operas too, although not all by himself.
More seriously, singers have their instruments along too, so the comparison is not really fair. You're taking the performer and the instrument into account at the same time.
I could elaborate, but I'm quite sure everybody knows what I mean.
Cheers
B
And to be fair, Pav is not a young man, and certainly not as fit as once he was.
His youthful accounts of bel canto roles on stage were tremendous. Have you heard his 'I Puritani' opposite Sutherland under Bonnynge? Incredible and unrivalled.
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I heard an early evening recital last week given by a prominent Italian organist in a French Cathedral. He played three works (coincidentally, all in minor keys). He started with the Reubke Sonata; for light relief, he dallied a while with a very accurate but fast version of Variations on a Noel - Dupre and finished with Reger's Symphonic Fantasia and Fugue. OK he was expecting a lot of himself, but also an awful lot of his audience. Surely one little Italian piece would have gone down a treat - some Bossi maybe?
But we don't expect Dawn Upshaw to include 'My Old Dutch' in a recital of Schubert, Harbison and Barber, do we? Or Kissin, Brendel, Uchida or MacGregor to give us Scott Joplin?
Not that I'd include Bossi in those categories, of course. I think I may be alone in not feeling the need for light relief in a concert programme. Contrast yes.No wonder the Westminster Cathedral summer series died the death; long programmes (with interval) of 'dull' music. Happy days!
Todd Wilson ended his Abbey recital last year with the Reubke. Wow. The applause was rapturous... Anything further would have been superfluous.
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Hmmm....I am not sure how you would classify Hector Olivera but as a serious organist?
I think I have a complaint about CC it is that he does not seem to have developed as a musician. He is playing the same repertoire today as he did 25 years ago. He may entertain his audiences but does he challenge them?
While I agree that CC does not seem to programme a huge repertoire . I wonder why it is considered that it is his responsibility to challenge his audience, unless playing to one composed entirely of masochists. A good many people do not want to be challlenged but entertained, reassured and comforted. They are perfectly entitled to want that and if that is what they pay for that is what they should get. It is the customer who is always right according to the saying: not the salesman !
A good many people do not want to be challlenged but entertained, reassured and comforted.
Therein lies the problem. In a nutshell. -
I didn't make my point clearly and simply enough:
Lots of 'the-type-of-people-who-go-to-art-music-concerts-in-London' are not hostile to the sounds made by the organ. Many organ recitals feature third-rate music.
Organ recitals often feature ill-prepared players (through no fault of their own, limited time on a strange instrument etc.) playing bad music badly. We (organists and organ-fanciers) tolerate a lower standard of public performance than is usual in other instruments/ensembles.
I am a 'young-ish' person (under 35). Art-music is attracting new audiences via Tavener, Part etc. In an age of 'spiritual questing' audiences are seeking profundity, depth and meaning. Anecdotal evidence: I've taken Philistine friends to hear music by Olivier Messiaen since my teens. It bowls them over. OM's music, even his organ music, is highly regarded by non-organophiles. Yet on this board, for example, much of his more 'difficult' music is dismissed.
Few people will any longer be attracted to the organ through youthful ecclesiastical experiences. They will not develop a love of music whose quality is limited by function (and yes, I love 'bad' hymns, anthems, chant too). They will not understand or be moved by 'liturgical' improvisation or last-verse harmonizations. They will need to be attracted to the organ by 'absolute' music, not ecclesiastical programme-music.
As to transcriptions, why this obsession with the bygone era of Lemare, Best etc? We all know the social-historical function of the town hall tradition and these kind of pieces. They're great fun, often deeply affecting, and have their place. But my guess is that they appeal chiefly to the nostalgically-inclined.
These are personal viewpoints, limited by my own experience. My days of preaching are in the past, and I was never very good at it. And I've bored myself rigid with all this...
Oh, one more thing: I'm sure lots of the dead were indeed musically cultivated etc. But I'm not sure I've seen many attending concerts. Hold on tho'...
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There isn't a thread on steinway-pianos.com complaining about all the difficult late Beethoven that Alfred Brendel insists on playing, and hoping that he'll start programming a couple of Joplin rags for variety and to pull the punters in....why is that? Are piano punters more discerning than organ ones, or is that their standard repertoire is just better? I wish I knew... Don't be self-effacing, Maestro! I think you do know...
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To follow the Carlo Curley cul-de-sac, he's clearly a fine player etc.
However, my own feeling is that the organ's serious problem is NOT a lack of 'popular' appeal.
Rather, it's a perceived lack of profound/high-quality/worthwhile (insert adjectives as appropriate) repertoire. Audiences turn out in large numbers to hear difficult and complex art-music: Mahler, Bruckner, Nielsen and the like attract large and varied audiences. Historically-informed performances/festivals of early music are also extremely well-attended.
The organ's problem is in being taken seriously by intelligent, musically-cultivated people. And this, I fear, is due to experiences of noisy third-rate music poorly played. The effect of this is serious: musical decision-makers, in the media and in concert-planning continue to ignore the instrument.
Having said all that, I love the 'town hall tradition', the Edwardian organ etc. But I think it has quite enough champions already.
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MM bow your head in shame no longer!
I have lived in London for over 30 years and yet have only heard St Paul's once, Southwark twice, and as for the Temple Church or Alexandra Palace - not a sausage. And yet in recent years I have travelled hundreds of miles to hear instruments in Edinburgh, Liverpool, York, Lincoln, Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham, Leicester and St Davids. Funny old world when you ignore what's on your own doorstep!
As for Westminster Cathedral, only one recording has ever come close to representing what the instrument is like to hear live. That was by Nicolas Kynaston playing works by Durufle and Dupre which can be found at http://www.mitra-classics.de
A disc featuring Robert Quinney at Westminster Cathedral is due to be released on Signum later this year. Judging by their success in capturing the RAH sound for Simon Preston, this should be pretty fine.
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Could anyone tell me what is the musical-point in exact organ-restoration, or is it just an antiquarian indulgence?
MM
Has such a thing ever happened in the UK?
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4. Blackburn Cathedral
Were this a top 10, I would certainly include perhaps Tolouse, St George's Hall Liverpool, Queen's College Oxford, Yale University and, simply out of
Sadly, although I lived in London for 16 years....I NEVER HEARD WESTMINSTER CATHEDRAL!!
Shame on me!
MM
I've enjoyed recordings of the pre-rebuild Blackburn organ very much, but if my conscience allowed me to chose an instrument with digital enhancements (WHY at Blackburn? Or Southwell for that matter?), I'd go for the Skinner at Southern Methodist University's Perkins School of Theology, with its 64' Bombarde de Ravallement...
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This, Blaze Away and Liberty Bell are all transcriptions, of course. Nothing at all wrong with that, but do you suspect audiences enjoy transcriptions more than 'real' organ music?
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Well, it's summer and the weather has turned bad, so what better way to bring a little sunshine into our lives, than to contemplate the finest five organs in the world?
This was inspired by the claim that St.George's Hall, Liverpool, should be included in that category.
I have my own ideas, but perhaps I should hold these in reserve until the final tally.
However, for the title "best romantic organ in the world" I think I would have to go for the huge Skinner organ at Yale, which I think is the most expressive and beautiful instrument in America.
For the best "hybrid" organ, then I think St.Moritz, Olomouc in the Czech Republic must be up there somewhere; containing as it does an original baroque instrument, by Michael Engler; remaining largely unaltered, and to which the addition of 20th century pipework by Rieger-Kloss has produced a musical masterpiece.
Alkmaar or Haarlem would surely still hold their own in any sort of comparison?
The organ of St.George's Hall, Liverpool, would certainly have a major rival with the Hill organ at Sidney TH.
Could one, or should one include a smaller organ such as the Frobenius at Queen's College, Oxford?
After all, the less the number of stops, the more exposed are the tonal shortcomings of any instrument, and to achieve the sort of organ perfection which Frobenius achieved at Oxford, takes a very special skill indeed.
Oh dear! I've already mentioned 7 organs.
This really is quite difficult.
MM
By asking for the 'finest', are you suggesting we attempt a bit of serious objectivity?
I'm not sure the five 'finest' would necessarily include my five favourite instruments, which are probably characterized by features which might be considered peculiar, eccentric, or even downright vulgar... And should we limit ourselves to instruments we have heard in the flesh? -
Marcel Lanqueuit's Toccata has recently been rescued from justified obscurity by several notable players.
I don't know of any other pieces.And in a different league, might the Thalben-Ball Elegy count? It's certainly more popular than Edwardia, Toccata Beorma etc.
And there's another French-type Toccata, whose composer escapes me. I heard it a few years ago played after Easter evensong at Windsor Castle, and a few times since. Quite memorable, even if the name of the composer wasn't. Anyone any ideas?
And in reply to my own post, I've remembered the one-hit Toccata chap: Albert Renaud.
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This seems to boil down to a matter of taste, I am afraid.
I haven't heard the Meyerson "Organ Fireworks", but I trust that the Hyperion staff did their usual high-end recording work and caught the organ as well as possible. From all other recordings from Meyerson I know, I find the organ utterly fascinating, powerful and bold. Mary Preston's Dupré recordings on Naxos are, to me, spectacular musically and soundwise, and so are the Dorian recordings with maître Guillou and Eduardo Mata playing Jongen and Saint-Saëns.
The organ is, among American "tracker backers", considered the definitive achievement of American tracker organ building in the 20th century. On the recordings, I always found the sound beefy, with unexpectedly heavy basses, and a flexibility on a truly symphonic scale. The instrument speaks, admittedly, with a voice of its own, and is easily recognised in recordings. There is some edge to the mixture sound, a certain sour quality, but the sound never lacks of healthy fundamental tone. As Fisk's own Greg Bower once said to me, "our organs are never shy".
As far as I know, there is only one builder in the US who is up to this, whose instruments are built along more traditional American lines, with e-p action, pitman chests etc, which is Schoenstein.
The comparison to the Birmingham Klais I find a difficult one, because there is such a difference in the overall approach to scaling, voicing and composing the sound in its entirety. The Klais sound traditionally (after all, they are along for 124 years now) is leaner, less heavy, and has a bias to the mixtures rather than the reeds. It may be more refined, but also is a little cooler than Fisk's Meyerson sound.
Best,
Friedrich
Ditto to all of the above. Mary Preston's Dupre on this organ is superlative. There are lots of wonderful Fisks on disc; they're often to be heard on 'Pipedreams'.
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Marcel Lanqueuit's Toccata has recently been rescued from justified obscurity by several notable players.
I don't know of any other pieces.And in a different league, might the Thalben-Ball Elegy count? It's certainly more popular than Edwardia, Toccata Beorma etc.
And there's another French-type Toccata, whose composer escapes me. I heard it a few years ago played after Easter evensong at Windsor Castle, and a few times since. Quite memorable, even if the name of the composer wasn't. Anyone any ideas?
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HEREFORD.
I live here at Hereford and would like to correct 'Goldsmith' in his statement no 7 post. I will quote Roy Massey's remarks:
As in 1933 it was decided that restoration and conservation was the correct proocedure, and consequently there has been no re-voicing or alteration of the Willis pipeworkm although the opportunity was taken to provide a few additions to amplify the original tonal concept.
The Great organ gained one new stop - a 4 rank mixture 19,22,26,29, which carries up the brilliance of the Willis 4ft and 2ft ranks and acts as a bridge between the fluework and the wonderful family of 16,8, and 4 ft Trumpets. The original Willis Tierce mixture 17,19,22, remained unaltered.
The pedal organ gained independent metal diapason ranks at 8 ft and 4 ft pitch with a 4 rank mixture 19,22,26,29 to complete the chorus and give a degree of independence. A stopped flute 8ft Open flute 4ft and Schalmei 4ft were also added to give variety to the quiter pedal registers.
At our latest rebuild this Schalmei was altered to a trumpet 4 ft, maybe called a Clarion, I forget.
The Swell organ remained exactly as before although in order to improve tonal egress 2 additional shutters were added to the Swell front and a baffle board errected over the box to direct the sound forward.
The Solo organ gained a 2ft flute by the transposition of the old Hohl flute 4ft and the Glockenspiel gongs lost their swell shutters inh an attempt to make their charming tones more audible. The Tuba was moved to a commanding new position over the Great organ as its pipes formerly blocked the triforium arch and masked the tone of the Swell organ.
The Choir organ was moved from its rather buried position at the back of the chamber to a new position in the centre of the organ case where the old 1893 console used to be. This division was brightened by the addition of a tapered Spitz flute 2ft in place of the old Piccolo and a 3 rank mixture 15,19,22 replaced the Lieblich Bourdon 16 ft.
The Willis 1933 console, notable for the luxurious completeness of control which it offered the player was retained. Again this was retained at our latest rebuild suitably modernised with memory systems etc.
I was only talking to Roy yesterday and this came up. One doesn't have to use the new 4 rank mixture on the Great which remains exactly as Father Willis left it.
At the recent rebuild Geraint Bowen also decided restoration and conservation were the correct procedure.
We are now left with one of the finest organs in all the land.
Hope this information has been helpful.
M.S.
Thank you Michael, for confirming what I had already read about the Hereford instrument.
In my post, I expressed the view that the additions had not enhanced the organ, and I'll stick by that. As ever, this is a matter of personal taste.
For me, there are a couple of phrases in the text you quote which give the game away: 'opportunity was taken to provide a few additions to amplify the original tonal concept' and 'This division was brightened by...'.
It's all very well to suggest that additions need not be used by players wishing to convey the 'original' sound of the instrument, but in practice this is unlikely. It's not ususally intended that such additions are obvious to the visiting player!
All that said, I don't think you're alone in rating this instrument very highly indeed, and I have never been fortunate enough to hear the organ in a liturgical context.
So apologies for any offence caused.
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Do we assume that the Abbey now has its console back in place? Haven't seen any reference to this on the H&H site.
Yep, it's mentioned in the recital series programme.
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I shall have to try to get up there at some point. I'm interested to compare it to my own instrument, which, on paper, seems to share a common foundation.
I think you'll find it very similar, with the advantage over Sheffield City Hall, for example, of not sounding forced thanks to the big acoustic.
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Not that I'd include Bossi in those categories, of course. I think I may be alone in not feeling the need for light relief in a concert programme. Contrast yes.
I don't know of any other pieces.
Choral Evensong
in The Organ
Posted
How about the Abbey under Douglas Guest? Marvellous.