andyorgan
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Posts posted by andyorgan
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I have been DofM at St. Thomas (up the hill) since the beginning of 2004, and we have responsibility for playing and providing a choir for weddings at St. Martin. There is now an Allen, which not unexpectedly is quite disappointing. NPOR has details of the Grant Degens and Bradbeer organ, 15 stops from three ranks. The survey date is 1969. Does anyone know what happened to this organ, or have any memories of it?
Thanks,
Jonathan
Now here was a blast from the past. I used to do quite a bit of playing at St Martin's as I knew David Swinson up at St Thomas'. Don't know anything about the pipe organ, but the cong were always very friendly and grateful for my trip over from GUildford. I'm assuming that the splendid boys choir at St T's is still flourishing, I still have the CD they recorded in the late 90's and remember an excellent few days of services I played for them at Exeter cathedral. Is Kevin J still singing there?
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He was the soul of charm and courtesy in his reply. He explained that he was commissioned to write the transcription by Warners, but the terms of the licence were extremely narrow. He was to transcribe the score for that recording alone, after which any licence to perform the transcription was revoked, so his transcription cannot be published (he no longer knows where it is) or performed by anyone else.
At least you got a reply. I emailed a prominent US organist to enquire about a couple of transcriptions (Shostakovich Festival Overture, and Bernstein Candide), and still haven't heard back, a year later. I wouldn't even mind if he sent one saying, 'look, it took a lot of time to transcribe, why don't you do it yourself!'
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As we don't have Oscars for th organ, how about a vote for your favourite CD of 2007. As many of us will be buying CDs long after the year they came out, let's make it favourite CD THAT YOU PURCHASED in 2007, rather than one that came out in 2007. And just so that you don't feel limited, let's have a top three.
Here's mine:
1. Elgar Sonata from Salisbury (Trotter)
2. Improvisations (Wayne Marshall, all jazzy Gershwin and Bersntein)
3. Robert Quinney at Westminster Cathedral
Over to the rest of you!
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What does "not controversial" mean ?
The 2500th ecclectic organ ?
If the builder is already choosen, why not let him
do what he feels right ?
Given such an opportunity, any good builder will
answer with a masterpiece.
Pierre
Its going to be done by Nicolsons, its bound to be good!
Does anyone know if there are plans to reuse anything that is currently there?
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Something I have wondered, maybe it's the height of bad taste, but are there any organ transcriptions of piano concertos, with the piano part retained? Petit Mess Sodinghel excepted, there's not much music written for piano and organ, but I sometimes wonder how one of the great piano concertos would sound with a pianist playing the piano part and an organist filling in for the orchestra. Has this ever been done?
I have an excellent disc of music for organ and piano from the big church in Boston (is it Holy Trinity?). There aren't any concertos, but there are a couple of original compositions (good set of variations by Dupre) and some transcriptions, very good Ride of the Valk.
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Thomas Heywood's CD of Melbourne deservedly got the Editor's Choice in Organist's Review, and it ranks as one of my all time favourite discs. I've met the guy and his wife in recital in London, and I must confess the idea of transcriptions took on a new life as a result. Why Beethoven? Because apparently no-one (I find hard to believe) has ever before transcriped all nine symphonies to organ. But he has the decency to publish them (very professionally, very clearly designed and well laid out) and I am slowly munching through V:
http://www.concertorgan.com/index.php?data...f2e9f589c5897da
Yes, he's a good advocate for transcriptions. I bought a couple of his and they are well written, though not easy. I can recomend 'The Thieving Magpie' overture and the the Verdi overture he does. His wife is an excellent piston pusher.
I once found a piano duet version of Rossini William Tell which without much difficulty transcribed easily onto organ (again for duet) and which I've had a lot of fun with, especially as one part is much harder than the other, so it's a good one to give to friends at short notice (I mean, letting them play the easier bass part).There's at least two good Wm Tell transcriptions. the Lemare is surprisingly playable in places (the repeated notes in the famous bit at the end are a struggle on an unresponsive action) and is in the original key of E. Then there's a Buck transcription in D, which has its tricky moments, but it feels wrong to play it in D though.
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It's certainly done some weird things as far as my school is concerned!
AJJ
Yes, me too, we're having only a 3 and a half week half term this term, yet my mum's school are having Easter weekend and working another week and a half, then having the Easter holidays. Anyone know if Easter can be any earlier? I don't have my BCP to hand and that very useful chart in the front with Golden Years etc.
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My Christmas treat was the Dover collection of transcriptions. A very ecletic collection, not sure I'll use over half of them, but 10 quid for 26 pieces, you can't go wrong. I'm giving the Karg-Elert/Harmonious Blacksmith and Bach Chaconne a wide berth, but a nice piece of Rubenstein, and some Gounod, Saint-Saens and a sprinkling of Wagner. Well worth the money.
PS: Mr B, I've nearly finished Candide, just a few passages where I need to experiment.
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Absolutely - it almost ruins a superb tune.
I have an organ re-harmonisation which was written by a colleague; this I use in preference every time. It is a stunning 'last verse' arrangement and does all the things which I feel that the descant by HH should do - but does not.
East Acklam is pleasant, but for me, it does not have that (hard-to-define-accurately) element, that facet which makes my 'toes clench in my shoes as full Swell comes shining through the G.O. diapasons' *. However, I find that Coe Fen, or even Guiting Power do have this ability.
* To quote (loosely) Gordon Reynolds.
I think it does have this quality! And there is splendid last verse by FJ himself in the same book. Guiting Power, also very good tune. There's an excellent descant by Barnard himself, but an even better one in the RSCM book we used a few years ago for the local Diocesan Festival.
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I would say that Coe Fen scores as a tune because:
- there is a modal feel to it, that appeals to the traditional and timeless;
- there is a reasonable amount of dissonance in the accompaniment, that makes it feel modern;
- there is also a fair amount of movement (if not counterpoint) in the accompaniment, that makes it feel like it's a choral piece and not another 'four square' hymn tune;
- there is a solidity in the melody that allows a congregation to belt it out when appropriate, and thus feel satisfied.
IM not very HO there are other tunes that would give it a run for its money as the best from the 20th century. Pantyfedwen is one of them, as is Tydi a Roddaist, which, together with Coe Fen, made it to New English Praise.
If we're having 'best late 20th century tune', I'm afraid there's no competition IMHO; East Acklam by Francis Jackson, by a long way, especially if sung to the 'For the fruits of his creation' words. It made it into the EH supplement as well, and rather surprisingly, given the nature and tone of the rest of the hymn book, is actually in Hymns Old and New.
- there is a modal feel to it, that appeals to the traditional and timeless;
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Let me try and cheer you up.
It's a maverick opinion, but I think there's a place for almost anything in a good programme. One just has to choose items very carefully and each item must justify its inclusion in one way or another. Light works don't have to be very high quality to serve a really serious purpose: a cleanser between strong tastes, or a chance for the listener to relax between heavy pieces. I would also use less striking pieces with particular stops in mind - I have often learned things like this because they're in the right keys, move at the right speed or use the right stops.
The few pieces I can't easily find use for are ones that take themselves far too seriously for their actual quality. To set a few folks typing, much Rheinberger sometimes comes into this category for me - unless played by Roger Fisher who has the perfect touch and always makes this stuff sound like fine music.
At last, someone who shares my (up to now) hidden feelings about Rheinberger.
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I agree with what most of Cynic has said, here are a few more thoughts.
I did a CD after the organ fund-raising committee thought I would be the best person to do it, as I had seen the organ through its various stages of repair and restoration. Having played on vocal CDs, there is quite a bit of pressure, so felt a little reluctant to do one solo. Anyway, I went ahead with it, and actually there was LESS pressure doing it solo. There was nothing worse than a great vocal take being ruined by a bum pedal note or a clumsy registration change, easier to do again when there's just you.
Choosing the right company/man to do it is very important. You have to feel relaxed and you can get on with whoever. There will be times when they sit there and say 'that didn't go well'/'there was a wrong note here' etc and you take it on the chin and do it again. The prices that Cynic mentions were about what I remember as well.
A word of advice on the 'enthusiastic amatuer recorder'. I heard one local choir's two recordings. One done by a man with a mic and recorder, the other done by one of the small professional outfits, and they were like chalk and cheese. The booklet, production, editing, etc was by far superior, and it made it a much more marketable and saleable disc. I think there is a possibility that the singing was actually BETTER on the amateur recording, but its just that you couldn't hear it very well, and there was quite a bit of background noise.
Repertoire is important. I agree entirely with Cynic's view of single composer discs, especially with organ music (works better with choral music), so you really want to be showing off the colours of the organ itself. And just about everyone who is worth doing has probably been done (notable exceptions, Fillsell/complete Vierne and Dupre!). Or, you could go for another link, off the top of my head; Christmas music (I have an excellent Graham Barber from Armley with a great variety of stuff on), Theme and Variations (can include chorale preludes, passacaglias as well as themes and variations pieces), Dance Music (particularly fine one on Regent with Margerat Philips with a healthy mix of styles), Transcriptions, I even have the really excellent disc 1937 on Signum, the title says it all. I went for something which showed the organ off in its best light, and this was almost a first recording for the church, so no previous competition. (And rather remarkably, that's what the reviews said!). The big turn off for me when buying is the 'this is what I play on a Sunday for voluntaries' type discs. I also included a couple of pieces by living composers who bought a few as it was a good advert for their music, without them having to take the financial risk of having to organise and pay for the recordings. I can also heartily endorse what Cynic says about solo stops as well. We had a particularly fine Cor Anglais which you could never hear in services, and was difficult in voluntaries, but heard very clearly when the mic is in the right place. Contrary to popular thought, most organ recordings don't use a myriad of microphones. The companies I have dealt with tend to use two at most; one in front of the organ and occasionally another one further down the nave.
Don't expect it to make a lot of money, though I did manage to sell enough to cover the costs. A big mail shot on friends and family was a good source, as were other organists who'd sent me a mail shot to buy their disc! A small and simple display at the back of recitals where you might include the odd piece on the disc are good leads, as is a 'launch' recital. You don't have to play everything on the disc, a few of your favourites, some cheese and wine and you'd be amazed how many might reach for the wallet!
If you go with one of the small one man outfits, you get a really good service from start to finish, and they will send review copies to the relevant periodicals etc.
Hope this is helpful, PM me if you want any more help or advice on particular companies!
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If only! Use the right tool for the job
The decision to use PowerPoint was made before I arrived and once established it's very hard to change anything. I have a feeling that there was an aspect of "PowerPoint is what our potential congregants are used to - we ought to be giving them lots of whizzy graphics to hold their interest." I am the first person to deride MicroShaft for their bloated design and monopolistic tendencies and I use Apple's Keynote to open any PowerPoint files I'm sent.Excellent, I've found another Mac user. Anymore out there?
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Well for a start it just sounds nice!
More seriously it seems to provide a "proto-climax" to the tune, heightened by the suspension and resolution into the "extra" bar which demands a slight interruption to the established rythmic pattern. This sense of psychological tension is finally overcome by the conclusion of the tune when it returns to the expected bar-count and home key.
Peter
Remarkably, at my school this is the rather in tune, despite it not appearing in the EH. They never sang the hymn to the drearier tune in EH and I think one of my predecessors introuduced Coe Fen. I rather like it too, though its irregular metre and shape of the melody takes some getting used to.
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Is the church still in good use? I remember they used to have regular organ recitals there, just after the date of that Lindley recod you mentioned probably. What does he play on it?
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OK, how about a bit of a hornet's nest and transposition?
People say that because I have perfect pitch, transposition must be easy. They back up their case as playing hymns in any number of keys I find quite easy. However, I find it rather hard BECAUSE I have perfect pitch. Because my brain knows what it sees should sound like, the fact that my brain is seeing one note and hearing another is quite hard to get over. I do the transposing of hymns purely by ear, the more times you've played them, the easier it is. I found the RCO transposition tests really hard (I'm not expecting any sympathy, by the way), and it was sheer slog and hard work and constantly doing it at every practice that got me through. I used to have the same problem listening to Baroque music at early pitch (eg, surely Handel didn't write this in C sharp major, for example)
How are others experiences, perfect pitch or not?
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Given that our hosts do this for nothing, do we not think it appropriate to chip in to ensure the thing keeps going? What would be a reasonable sum? £3, £5?
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Not strictly true as there is transposition in at least the trumpet too. There are other instrument specific tests as well. Singers have to sing unaccompanied, and bassoon and trombone have to sight read the tenor clef, to name but a few. As the marks for transposition are very few and you get some marks for attempting the test, you shouldn't let that alone stop you from entering.
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Submitting to a previous thread on Abbot and Smith in Leeds, I remembered another organ I had played in my youth. I also used to play at a local church (huge church with very nice acoustic in a really run down area) which had an absolutely gorgeous, almost untouched Binns in St Mark's Woodhouse in Leeds. The church was already in decline and the organ was showing its age (it used to wheeze and leak quite a lot), but it made a really super sound. I knew the church had closed, but was delighted to see at:
http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=N02841
that the organ was dismantled and was being put in St Peter and Paul, Eye, in Suffolk.
Does anyone here know the organ in its new location, or perhaps you may have played it when it was in Leeds?
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Come, come, there were more of us than that!
Which one did you belong to?
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I didn't have the opportunity of playing the organ (or any keyboard regularly) until I retired. Now I have joined the local association, have been on two tours overseas, and I'm learning to play, very much helped by a church a few hundred yards away with an organ they let me use for practice almost every week-day. At 65 one doesn't learn very quickly! I was just getting to the stage where I was thinking that I might cautiously try playing organs on one of these trips - just something short and simple on some quiet stops.
Guilmant's post makes me wonder whether "elderly people" "of a very low standard of playing" are considered an asset for a local association or a liability.
Oops, humblest apologies, it wasn't supposed to be either, just a statement of fact. As it happens, they were all very polite, asking for advice on registration etc, and most of them bought a copy of my cd as well. So I certainly didn't mean to imply they were a liability, sorry.
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A few years ago, the church I played at had a substantial rebuild of a large 4 manual instrument. It caused a certain amount of interest from local associations who could visit us, a number of other organs of interest and the organ builder in the town. Over 18 months or so, we probably hosted about 12 such visits (including the American HS on their European Tour). There was a huge variety of numbers and ages involved in the visits, some more geographicly spread than others. They ranged from only 12, mostly elderly people who had a great time getting a free organ recital and short talk (but of a very low standard of playing when they had the chance), to one of about 35 men, women and a handful of teenagers, all eager to have a go and brough substantial repertoire that they could play.
I concluded that organisations differ very widely up and down the country. As a student in Edinburgh, we had a fantastic society (its still going!), enough meetings, visits and socials that made students welcome and they ran a dep list, which was very useful for looking for holiday subs.
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The first proper Anglican service I ever played for was here:
http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=R00112
I played there a number of times in my teens (for the princely sum of £2, early 1980s) and it does make a super sound. But very unreliable and poorly maintained.
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So here's another RCO question...
What is the average age of those gaining RCO diplomas - are they all in their teens and twenties or are there any "oldies" among them these days??
Q
Well, I collected mine last March and was pleasantly surprised to find that there were others of my age also picking up. No, I'm not telling you my age (though I'm nearly at THAT big birthday when life is supposed to start!) There was a real mix of ages, compared to when I was a youngster and picked up the ARCO and most of us were in the 17-22 age range. Let's face it, Oxbridge colleges can bearly fill the organ scholarship places, so the young wunderkind variety are a little more thin on the ground. I also noticed that there are a fair few 'retired', late starters all having a go at the Cert RCO, which is obviously to be encouraged.
I also might add that the ceremony and bun fight afterwards was exceptionally well done (other than the cake running out, but that's because a few more turned up than had said). When I got the ARCO, tickets were limited to 2 per recipient and it was all VERY formal (they might have been putting on their best behaviour for Messiaen who was getting an Hon RCO, presumably because he couldn't pass the tests!). This time, all were welcome and my family, parents, children all came to Southwark and a number of others also came. It made the afternoon much more of a pleasure to see some families there. And contrary to what you might think, there were about 10 children of single figure age there with various diploma receivers, and they all managed to sit still and quietly during the excellent organ recital by Matthew Owens.
The decision to use PowerPoint was made before I arrived and once established it's very hard to change anything. I have a feeling that there was an aspect of "PowerPoint is what our potential congregants are used to - we ought to be giving them lots of whizzy graphics to hold their interest." I am the first person to deride MicroShaft for their bloated design and monopolistic tendencies and I use Apple's Keynote to open any PowerPoint files I'm sent.
Guidance For Voluntaries During Lentq
in General discussion
Posted
I can echo the priest comments above, so I don't make too many adjustments after morning eucharist (though I did go through a phas of having a common theme, eg all Bach, all Buxtehude etc). Howvere, in the evening, I used to just play something quiet, often one of the Bach CP, or the Howells Psalm Preuldes that end softly. It was quite effective for the most part.