andyorgan
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Posts posted by andyorgan
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Yes, I'd forgotten about the Walton, its a good little book that OUP one. I do both the Coronation Marches, Orb and Sceptre is much easier in that arrangement than the McKie version that OUP used to publish!
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As the Trotter topic got rather hijacked, here's an opportunity to share what you play, and those in the previous thread who clearly don't approve don't have to read and contribute. As sometimes these things are hard to get hold of (as we don't always know whats out there), we could share publishers if we needed to...
Here's a selection from my repertoire at the moment to get the ball rolling:
Handel; Overture to the Occasional Oratorio (arr me)
Tchaikovsky; Selection from Nutcracker (arr Friebel/me)
Strauss: Overture to Die Fledermaus (arr me)
Saint Saens; movements from Carnival of Animals (arr some Russian woman I can't remember)
Bizet; Carmen (Lemare)
Coates; various
Bach; Badinerie (arr Murray, v tricky!)
Elgar: Chanson de matin/nuit (arr Brewer)
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Transcriptions and "lighter organ fare"? I suspect these put off the dyed-in-the-wool organ purists like myself without attracting anybody else. I really don't understand why organists feel compelled to adulterate their recitals with this crap. It doesn't happen in any other branch of what might be called serious music - i.e. music you are expected to sit still and listen to in complete silence for an hour or more at a stretch. It's no wonder other musicians don't take the organ and organists seriously.
Sorry, venture to disagree here. I play quite a few transcriptions, not necesarily to get people in the door (I don't think I know anyone who has ever said, 'I'll try out organ recitals because they are playing orchestral/piano music'), but to give them a satisfying experience that might make them come back. I don't do programmes solely of transcriptions, its a question of balance and picking music suitable for the instrument (I didn't play any at Queen's, Oxford, for example). Like it or not, transcriptions are an important part of the history of our repertoire (and they've been around for a long time, do we not include the Bach transcriptions in our recitals for the same reason?).
Let's face it, if Lemare/Best et al. hadn't popularised the organ in the way they did, we wouldn't have the Birm Town Hall organs and the like. These organs were almost designed for this purpose and of course we can broaden the appeal by playing some Bach/Guilmant/Reger/Howells etc, but are we really doing the instrument justice if we don't bother with the orchestral stops.
Rant over and prepared for flack.
Come one, I know there are loads of you out there who do the odd transcription, stand up and be counted...
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Which thread?
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From my own experience; notes on the pieces, brief history of the organ (many also like a stop list!), biog notes about you. In two minds about pictures, my thoughts are only to include a picture if its a good one. ie, not one taken from the other end of the church wheich ends up looking tiny in the booklet. If you have to choose, I'd always go for a console picture rather than the case, but I think I'll be in a minority here.
Bering in mind that you will probably want to sell CDs to non-organists, be careful with technical language in your booklet notes. I popped in a line about 'thumbing down' in the Lemare Andante and (on the advice of a much more recorded artist) later added a brief comment as to what that actually meant.
One more piece of advice, proof read, proof read and proof read again. Then get three good friends and one particularly sticky enemy and get them to proof read it. I read mine over and over again, and it was only at the last minute that
'...he has given many pubic performances...' was spotted, thus saving great embarrassment. Spell checkers only highlight wrong spellings that aren't real words.
Good luck with it. I do hope you'll advertise it here when its ready. Who has done the recording/producing? Have you thought of a title for the disc yet?
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I'm currently on my first pair of Organmaster shoes, and they are the best I've ever had. I hadn't thought about whether they suited my style of pedalling as noted above, but they are comfortable and easy to feel with. However, DO NOT get the soles even remotely damp (eg go for quick walk outside without changing, or as in the case of one church, a lavatory with a particularly wet floor).
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The disappointing things about digital downloads are:
-the quality is far inferior to the CD itself
-you don't get the booklet and presentation part of the deal. I know you can download the covers (and in some cases the pdfs of the booklet notes), but its not the same
Look at the work that goes in to MOST releases by Hyperion, Priory, Regent, Dephian etc, usually scholarly notes about the music and the performer. Scant booklets for popular music usually have very little else other than photos or lyrics.
I'm not against the ease of digital technology (I use my ipod for teaching all the time, now at the stage where I almost can't do without it!)
The Sibelius website offers another answer. You piggy back on the brand they've created, pop your compositions on, and wait. I've bought a few organ pieces off it (a couple of original pieces, and some transcriptions), but have then had to bind the music myself to make it usable.
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Thank you, most useful. Asking myself how I've never found this site before?
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I think I've got it. Unfortunately, if I do, it will be a very long way down a pretty difficult-to-get-to heap. Do you belong to the RCO? If so, they can earn back some of the (more than) £70 you've paid them for membership this year and someone can copy this movement for you. They are bound to have it, although their copy may be a long away away from whichever back bedroom the organisation now runs from.
If all else fails please PM me and I'll carry out a search for you. My library is indexed apart from the mouldering heaps of victorian stuff. Holloway's music that I've tried is good stuff, he was organist at the Crystal Palace, wasn't he?
Thanks, yes have just sent off this year's cheque to the RCO! I'll PM you if I don't have any luck.
This movement is actually quite good, though I don't know what the rest of it is like. It used to be on the Sibelius site in a modern edition, but has disappeared recently, just as I thought I should buy a copy. Other organ stuff disappeared from the Sib site when publishers got wind that some of it was still in copyright, but that clearly doesn't apply to Holloway.
Yes, he was at the CP, apparently when it burned down!
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Topic description says it all.
Can anyone help me to locate a copy of the Scherzo from the Organ Symphony in C minor Op.47 by Holloway?
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And the other one some of my ex pupils came up with a few years ago was 'utterly rutterly'.
We already have...
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I agree that this is an interesting topic, and I find myself genuinely torn. On the one hand, we, as organists know our favourite pieces if not to the point of obsession, then certainly inside out, and any mistake certainly stands out. "Wrong note fiends" (as Alfred Brendel calls them) are an acknowledged phenomenon. Gillian Weir, when asked about this is reported to have said that should she play a wrong note, everyone is happy, because the fiends get to spot their note, and the others, who don't let such things bother them will still have enjoyed the performance! I have heard blemishes in her more recent perfomances, but I feel completely neutral about these because what has remained is her absolute musical intelligence and let's face it, her technique is still pretty darned good, to say the least!
On the other hand, I had a lesson in not meeting (or going to hear) ones heroes playing live. At one stage I thought his performance of the JSB Passacaglia & Fugue might collapse (it didn't, quite). I was by turns embarrassed both for the player (no names no packdrill) and that my friend who was there with me (to whom I had raved about said organist) certainly couldn't see what the fuss was about. I was cross that the player, whose Bach had become part of my life, had let me down, sad that it was time for him to throw in the towel. This went beyond the odd duff note about which we shouldn't be so anal. It was, quite simply, an incompetent performance, without much pizzazz either, really. A sad evening indeed.
Also, the "panache" argument can be shaky. If you find the performance unmusical and inaccurate, no amount of "panache" (or head waving, in the case of our friend the hairy violinist of a previous post) will atone for it. All you are left with is the incompetent playing of the notes. Could I have done better? Maybe, maybe not, but no-one in their right mind is going to invite me to play at the RFH/Westminster Abbey/ AH etc.
Sorry, hadn't meant to mean 'panache' at the expense of musicality. Maybe I meant personality? I went to hear Guillou play and it was extraordinary playing. Meticulous in detail and with plenty of personality that didn't interfere with the integrity of the music. Made me re-examine long held thoughts and beliefs about interpretation. It wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but his own transcription (from memory!) of all of the Pictures at an Exhibition was spellbinding. At one point I even found myself liking the Symphony Hall organ, so good was his playing.
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I'd rather have plenty of panache and personality with the odd wrong note anyday. I've been to some very dull recitals when it has been clear that the performer hasn't paid any attention to the new acoustic or the possibilities of the instrument they now find themselves playing. Notes all fine, registration safe, tempi adequate, but plainly and frankly very dull.
One of the marks of a really good recitalist is one who can turn dull music into something greater than the sum of its parts. This brings to mind a performance of the Vesper Voluntaries (not that good music, if it weren't by Elgar we wouldn't hear it as often) by TT I heard.
I think this is very true. I don't know that it is that common, but can think of one or two recital arrangers who will only book cathedral DoMs or people with similar "star" status. No matter that there are assistants who can knock spots off some DoMs, they won't get a look-in. I wouldn't like to guess whether this is because they automatically assume that the top men will be better or because assistants don't look so good in the boasting book.
Certainly true!!
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The Variations on Good King Wenceslas are excellent, as is the Hommage to Buxtehude. The latter makes a good recital piece if you play it with the three Buxtehude pieces it uses.
There is a small Choral Partita (the name of which escapes me) which I learnt as a student which is a simpler piece if you want something not too taxing.
Echo the comments on Wedding at Cana (excellent recording by Mag Phillips on Regent), though I've never been able to get too excited about Sunday Music. The last movement of Job is well worth learning also.
SOmewhere, I have a recording of an organ concerto by him, but needs repeated listenings to get into.
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All in moderation of course. I went to a recital once where nearly half the programme was the competent-but-not-distinguished performer's own compositions. A little self indulgent I thought at the time, and a plug for you to go to his publishers website and buy the stuff.
However, the same couldn't be said about a Hakim recital I went to (opening of St Giles, Edinburgh) a number of years ago, Two substantial second hlaf pieces and then an improvisation. He does it better than most, so I don't have any objections to his improvisations, but its not something I'd do myself. I've played one or two of my own transcriptions, but only ones where I feel there aren't good ones already available.
PS: Wills Five Pieces keeps cropping up in my life too! The opening ovement was a grade 5 piece I think, and having bought the book, I did once play the requiem third movement somewhere suitable.
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"I can’t believe it's not Rutter". - Certain Lay Clerks from Wells apparently started this one when referring to Malcom Archer's choral compositions!
And the other one some of my ex pupils came up with a few years ago was 'utterly rutterly'.
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Not so very different, though, from the common situation of an atheist running the music in very many religious edifices.
That's an interesting point that has been raised before and a very worthwhile observation. Perhaps some of our clergy members could explain their views on this. I've heard both extremes; the 'I'd rather have an enthusiastic Christian organist even if they are not the best person on the shortlist (assuming there is a shortlist), than a top drawer organist who sees it purely as a job rather than part of their Christian service.
What do clergy ask their prospective organists about their faith? Do they ask at all in cathedrals and big jobs where skill would always seem to overide any spiritual considerations?
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Nigel McClintock perhaps? The organ there now is rather splendid - Kenneth Jones worked on it recently - West end, 4 Man., terraced console etc. The spec. doesn't seem to have made it on line yet though.
AJJ
That is correct, and who'd have thought that a protestant would have been running the job in a RC church in Belfast of all places. Progress!!
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Ah, 'twas a pity we didn't meet officially! And very kind of you to mention the choir in such positive terms.
Good idea with the Handel and Verdi, will mention that next time someone suggests it.
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PS
7. For my own wedding, my teacher played the Krebs Prel and Fugue in C during the singing of the register. As the console was in full view and the congregation full of non-musicians, they all found it rather educational during the big pedal solo in the prelude. For ineterest, bride came into the opening of the Gigout Grand Choeur and we departed to the Widor.
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Some observations:
1. The vicars I have worked for have always been very good at insisting that the bridal party contact me well in advance to discuss music. It has never been a problem on the organ front, but often they need some guidance on choice of music for the choir to sing. Here, I always make a distinction between wallpaper music (the stuff everyone talks through during the signing of the register, doesn't really matter what you sing, I ofetn suggest something we are about to sing on a SUnday, makes for a good run through!) and music they would like to be an integral part of the service, which is a much more rewarding approach. It always seems odd that if a family friend/relative sings during the registers everyone listens, whereas if its me of the choir, then that's an excuse to catch up on the football results.
2. Have yet to refuse any piece of music for the before and after. If its something popish, then I insist they get the music for me. Have played everything from Led Zepplin (which the priest Catholic priest refused to allow, so I decorated the melody, a la Buxtehude chorale, he didn't spot it, but the heavy metal brigade did, job done!), Bryan Adams, Carpenters and a lot of rubbish in the middle. As a student I used to strongly discourage the Widor because I hadn't got round to learning it (I used to tell ignorant brides and grooms that the organ wasn't suitable as it needed a specific set of stops and a large pedal board). In the end I had to learn it in two days after stepping in for a friendd at the last minute.
3. Fees, well all I can say here is that in the grand scheme of the £15-20k wedding (the current average), £100 does not seem unreasonable in the slightest.
4. Barry, were you at the mentioned organ builder's wedding? If it was in 2004, I was also there, and I conducted the choir that day. I had declined to play the organ as we had a baby due that day!
5. I had a bride once who requested the Parry bridal march as she was doing Classics at Oxford Uni, I thought it rather good. I've done both Walton marches, though they don't work so well on very small instruments. I'm always dubious about the Arrival of Queen of Sheba to enter to, partly because its hard to find a suitable place to stop, and partly because the Queen of Sheba wasn't a very nice person. Happy to play it at the end though. If brides have specific requests for a piece of proper organ music, am usually happy to learn it, given enough time.
6. Have just attended a funeral (yesterday) when the service ended with a Musical Joke, preceded by bugling huntsmen. Rather effective I thought.
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I have a pre-Cleobury Kings set reissued on CD by EMI on my iPod along with a HMV classics CD, which is another old Kings set. Honestly, you can't beat them. Some may find them a little closely recorded, but that's where the detail is. They get the balance right between keeping the thing moving and still allowing the words time to speak.
A long train journey and its just the tonic.
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I think we need a new thread for this, otherwise Buxtehude's daughter is looking far too popular!
A Lloyd-Webber; how about Mend Vln conc middle movement and I don't know how to love him, and Bolero and Memory. I think we're allowed to say there are similarities withoout being PM'd by Mr LW's libel lawyers, aren't we?
If we include Handel, he 'borrowed' so much from others he must have had a 'girl in every loft'.
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What many incumbents don't seem to realise is that a 'traditional' choir - especially with children on the top line (and here I'm not discriminating against boys, girls or mixed) can be the best way of getting young people in to the church.
For example the local parish church here in Wolverhampton (St Peter's Collegiate Church - city centre location - no residential parish) is a bastion of traditional choral music (with some good bits of 'contemporary' ) in a welcoming middle-of the-road stye of worship and maintains separate boys and girls choirs with a large number of ex-trebles on the back rows. Altogether nearly 80 young people under 20 actually physically contribute to worship through a choral service each week - no alternative, 'trendy' form of worship could hope to get near that.
Why is it a success? Well the top lines are only 'children': they know the responsibility lies with them - no bailling out from experiences adults - so their contribution is essential. Secondly, the services are 'fully choral' (Mass settings, with Gloria), fully-choral evensong - so the kids are always stretched - no 2 hour rehearsal on a Friday evening just to sing a few hymns and 'Lead me Lord' on Sunday morning. This is not to denegrate in any way the few remaining places where valiant individuals struggle to keep the last vestages of a choral tradition going on that small basis, but why would kids (any kid?) give up so much time to be in a church choir that doesn't really stretch them, doesn't give their contribution much significance in a service or even begin to make the most of what they are capable of musically?
This, I know, is opening a vast can of worms!
Hear, hear Gary, and you've seen it where I used to work too!! In fact, the children in the choir outnumbered all the kids in the Sunday School and youthwork put togather. And as you say, lots of responsibility and they are not afraid of hard graft.
Transcriptions
in The Organ
Posted
Funny you should mention that name, but even the great man has dabbled. I once turned pages for a recital and the performer played a transcription he had done of 'Die Meistersinger' Overture. It was rather good, sort of Westbrook with more countermelodies.