nachthorn
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Posts posted by nachthorn
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Am enjoying the programme immensely. They've clearly got someone 'on the inside', judging from some of the topics. I was expecting something of a hatchet job in the mould of most contemporary media attitudes towards churches, but have been very pleasantly surprised. That said, I don't quite know why the archdeacon character keeps talking about 'the Dean'. Don't archdeacons answer directly to the diocesan bishop?
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... When music (other than a hymn) is requested for the entrance of the coffin, he Dupre Cortege is just the right length, at least for the nave in my church (and arguably if an exuberant piece is required for the exit the Litanie could be played).
And there's Dupré's Lamento, or does this fall into the same category as the Howells, i.e. too intensely sad?
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I have seen advertisements for Daniel Roth's recordings of some of the symphonies from St Sulpice; he is working his way through them and imagine that they will be worth a listen on that most exciting and colourful of instruments. *
I have S-V C-C's recording from there of movements 1 & 6 of the 1st and wish that she had done the lot; the 1st movement especially is about the best I have heard.
* There is also a new 2 disc recording made there of a recreation of a full mass including the Vierne Messe Solennelle and improvisations etc etc. Has anyone heard it? Mrs Handsoff is aware of it and as the longest day has passed her mind will soon turn to organising Christmas, in particular my present. I hope...
Allegro have it, although not in stock, and it's £60. JAV have some tantalising snippets in MP3 on their website.
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This Wednesday (23rd June), Clive Driskill-Smith plays at Christchurch Priory in Dorset. Doors open at 7 for 7.30pm.
The programme is:
Flourish for an Occasion - WILLIAM HARRIS (1883-1973)
Choral No 2 - CESAR FRANCK (1822-1890)
Organ Concerto Op 4 No 5 in F - G. F. HANDEL (1685-1759)
Larghetto in F# minor - S. S. WESLEY (1810-1876)
Tuba Tune - NORMAN COCKER (1889-1953)
Fantasia in F Minor K.608 - W. A. MOZART (1756-1791)
Salamanca - GUY BOVET (b.1942)
Variations sur un Noël - MARCEL DUPRE (1886-1971)
The annual evening concert series at Christchurch is excellent and deserves to be better known. Forthcoming recitals in this year's series include Margaret Phillips, Thomas Heywood, Carleton Etherington and Hugh Morris. The ticket price (£6) is modest, and the setting is inspirational. All the recitals use the (mobile) nave console. There is ample parking, and a good collection of pubs and restaurants for post- (or pre-) concert imbibing...
More information about the venue at http://www.christchurchpriory.org/.
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Having had many knee and ankle problems in the past, personal experience suggest that a decent pedal technique (e.g. going to a really good teacher for a consultation to get ideas to sort out any problems) actually assists in overcoming/resting/improving those problems in general.
I can second this last suggestion - I recently had my pedal technique 'examined' by a very good teacher with excellent results. One can acquire some awful habits and techniques without noticing, and I was surprised by how much of a difference a nudge in the right direction has made.
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I think Simon Lindley recorded an album at LPC (St. Peters) many years ago, featuring SS.W. I have it somewhere
Peter
And there's James McVinnie's Naxos disc from Tenbury, recorded in 2006.
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I have a recording of the Heiller on Roger Sayer's Rochester contribution to Regent's English Cathedral (organ) series.
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I use Sibelius too. I find it very useful most of the time, especially in terms of automatic layout for simple tasks, but it can be irritating if you want to really fiddle with the layout manually, as it doesn't like letting you do that. It's a trade-off, I guess. I have used the Braeburn software but found that it took too much time to achieve simple tasks.
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I think it was the present Bishop of Salisbury (a former Oxbridge organ scholar and author of a lot of Common Worship) who made himself very unpopular a few years ago by saying that the vast majority of Anglican services are very boring and very badly done and this is the reason why people don't go to them. He was absolutely right.
I think that hits the nail squarely on the head. I pine for the church I knew as a student which had a flourishing musical tradition, a good standard of worship AND an active and happy community. Now I try to make do with the few churches that manage one or two of the three, and tend to avoid the majority of churches which have none of the above.
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I think it already has, but the corpse keeps twitching.
It doesn't seem to have much appeal to anyone, anymore. Few choirs, closed churches everywhere, Diocesan finances on the brink, redundant organs for sale on e-bay.....how bad does it have to get before the few remaining faithful wake up to reality?
If art is the nearest thing to life, and the majority of churches are now artless, what does that say?
MM
But the organs on eBay are generally the least useful, the choirs that disband are often the least musical-sounding, and many of the churches that are closing are getting so much more wrong than simply 'doing Evensong', however badly. The cathedrals, on the whole, are very lively and busy, while their worship is based almost entirely on BCP Evensong and other choral services. The last time I was at Salisbury, the congregation there was the largest and youngest I'd seen for a long time, and the music was as 'traditional' as you could get. The process is just an exercise in 'survival of the fittest', but so many churches are refusing to acknowledge their lack of fitness, or the reasons behind it.
Forgive the crude generalisation, but half a dozen old ladies squawking through a two part arrangement of something or another while dressed in shapeless moth-eaten old robes of yesteryear are just not a fair test of our musical tradition.
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The volcanic ash is at tens of thousands of feet, in the air currents above our weather systems.
If it falls to earth, it is most likely to do so as rain but it will take many weeks for this to happen.
So in the UK there's almost no ash in the air at ground level from the volcano, hence very little risk to organs.
In fact there are believed to be certain concentrations of ash at ground level. Aircraft flying between Newquay and the Isles of Scilly were found to be affected by ash at the low level of 1500 feet. Over the weekend, Boscombe Down, Newquay, Biggin Hill and Stansted airports/airfields have observed incidences of volcanic ash from ground level. Whether this translates into the quantities of dust needed to cause a problem to organs is unknown and probably rather unlikely, and any adverse effect is going to be highly localised. I guess it's the least of our problems at the moment...
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Jonathan Bielby seems to have been there since the cathedral had electric-lighting installed, but he certainly has achieved great things there. (35 years as ODM?)
From the Wakefield Cathedral website:
LEADING CHURCH MUSICIAN RETIRES AFTER 40 YEARS
One of the country’s leading church musicians will step down as Organist and Director of Music at Wakefield Cathedral after shaping its worship and cultural life for 40 years. Jonathan Bielby retires from the post on Easter Sunday and on Saturday 27 March a special service was held in the cathedral to mark his achievements and to say thanks for all he has done. The Bishop of Wakefield, the Rt Rev Stephen Platten, presided at the service which also saw the return of many other bishops, clergy, past choristers and friends from across the UK and beyond. The preacher was the former Archbishop of York and former Wakefield Bishop, Dr David Hope.
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I have often wondered why some smaller churches - especially in remote rural areas - insist on having a poor quality organ, or something that purports to be like an organ (harmonium, for example) when there may well be a more than capable pianist in the congregation who would be happier, and more effective, playing a decent piano. An "organ sound" is not essential to music in worship and never has been.
I agree entirely. Eight years ago I was organist of the principal church in a team of three. Of the other two, one had a terrible ramshackle 10-stop Hele and the other had some tremendous valve-driven electronic cinema organ-type thing, complete with 'rhythms', both of which I had to fight to extract music from time to time. The team rector asked me if it was worth getting a similar electronic thing as an alternative to the Hele. I suggested two good pianos, partly in the interests of the churches actually possessing decent musical instruments, and partly so the two pianists who normally played at those churches might stand more of a chance. The reply was, 'Ah, but wedding couples like to have an organ sound'. Hmm.
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Try O Jesus I have Promised to the Muppet Show Theme ...
Or 'O Jesus I have promised' to a modified version of 'Match of the Day'. After playing it at a wedding in which I was assured that the groom's family had specifically asked for it, and never being able to forget the combination of horrified and contemptuous expressions that met my introduction of the hymn, this remains the only time that I have issued an ultimatum to a member of the clergy. To his credit, he agreed with me.
IMHO Hatherop Castle comes a close second to this. Awful...
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Shame it's the BBC Singers (IMO only...) as I dislike the warbling from the sopranos and altos which they seem unable to restrain whatever they're singing.
And I thought it was just me! I couldn't agree more - at their worst they can sound truly dire, all warble and no music. In all fairness, I think there's been less vibrato in evidence more recently.
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Oh, sorry - I didn't say that the Milton wasn't a good organ - it's just not as good as the Grove organ! if there were a choice forced upon one, I, personally, would wish to see the Grove saved and not the Milton.
My Grandfather used to say "Don't compare the bad with the worse.", but in this case I think it's more a case of don't compare the OK with the Stupendous!
DW
No need to apologise - that's not how I took what you wrote. Tewkesbury are clearly very fortunate with their organs - I can see that I'm going to have to go back for the Grove experience in the near future
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I'm rather sorry I started this thread - albeit on a different topic
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I hate to dip a toe into the boiling water, but is it possible that the merits and drawbacks of engaging pipe-making firms are dependant largely on the individual builder and pipe-maker? There isn't a direct correlation between source of pipes and quality of sound produced by them, regardless of skill employed, surely?
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I played Sonata No 8 in a recital a few years ago and enjoyed doing so. However, I think it works better in the symphony version. I have Ian Tracey's recording and agree that it s very good.
Malcolm
I second the recommendation of both of Ian Tracey's Chandos discs, but can also highly recommend Ben van Oosten's complete Guilmant sonatas on MDG, recorded at Saint-Ouen.
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Alas, you have been in the silent presence of one of the wonders of the English organ world.
I suspected as much. But what of the 'Milton'?
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I've just spent a hard-working, pretty chilly, but tremendously rewarding weekend accompanying a visiting choir run by a friend, singing the services at Tewkesbury Abbey. I'd heard positive but vague comments about the place, and was bowled over by the building and by the musicality of the 'Milton' organ when I arrived. It's one of those instruments that seems to turn every note into a beautiful sound, aided no doubt by the acoustic, and I found the tracker action to be very light and communicative. The Choir division, in particular, was stunning.
It did raise a few questions, though.
(1) Why is this instrument not better known and more frequently mentioned in the context of good instruments? Is it just me who found it so good?
(2) What is the purpose of the Apse division? I know the history of the organs there, including Stubington's grand plan, but what was the idea behind putting a division in a remote chamber, and what was the rationale behind the tonal plan of the division? It was far too distant for use in Quire services, but had no impact in the Nave (Tuba excepted). It was obviously important enough to be included in the 1997 rebuild though.
(3) How did Kenneth Jones manage such a supremely musical rebuild, when - for instance, and in my opinion - Nicholson achieved nothing of the sort in similar circumstances at Christchurch Priory only two years later? I don't think that the quality of tone or the touch of the action are in the least comparable, yet both must have cost similar sums at similar times and were guided by the same consultant. Different buildings, different acoustics, yes I know, but there's no obvious excuse for the disparity. Nicholson have seen plenty of regular work before and since, but Kenneth Jones' work is still rare in Britain.
Incidentally, I did spend quite a while gazing longingly across at the 'Grove' organ from the 'Milton' console, but sadly neither time nor circumstances permitted a closer acquaintance with it. Maybe next time...
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There are many cases in Bach's Orgelbüchlein of similar messinesses. I do wonder whether some long notes in Bach's chorale melodies might actually have been cosmetic only and not held at all in practice. Jesu meine Freude has a particularly glaring example, if memory serves, where, although you can hold the offending note and repeat it where the adjacent part collides, doing so merely entangles the counterpoint. It just feels wrong to sustain that note - and other similar ones. I would love to know what the contemporary practice was.
This is the way that I've been steered in a couple of works from the Orgelbüchlein - hold the longer note until the collision, but don't repeat it if it obscures the counterpoint.
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I would have expected the occasion to have had a more past flavour to everything in honour and recognition of Sir David's rather grand Birthday this year. So I heard some of my really great favourites perhapd becasue of it. Did he attend I wonder?
Greetings on this most special day.
Nigel
I'm sure I saw him on the recorded TV carols broadcast.
Merry Christmas Nigel, and to all on the board.
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Quite coincidentally, this morning I caught the end of a TV service from Chester Cathedral (the choir was really excellent). At the end, I could not at first place the music played to introduce Hark the herald angels at all and it was only at the last minute that I recognised that the organist had been actually playing the end of the hymn. Now maybe I was being even more uncommonly thick than usual, or maybe I wasn't concentrating enough, but of how many in the congregation might this also have been true? If the organist had played the beginning of the hymn I'm sure I would have cottoned on immediately. You may think I'm making this up to prove the point, but I promise you I'm not.
I heard - in passing only, I'm afraid - the introduction to another carol, not Hark the Herald, and failed to recognise the introduction too. I don't think it was either the first or last line, but something else entirely, which might be the source of confusion here.
Incidentally, full credit to Stephen Cleobury and the King's choir - I thought they sounded very good this year. In my very humble opinion, they have tended to sound rather vibrato-heavy and unfocussed in previous years' broadcasts, but not this year. The King's live R4 broadcast sounded a little odd to me - a little like singing in a concrete tunnel - but I was listening in the car, and the R3 re-broadcast heard at home sounded fine. It must be the car sound system.
And appropriate credit to the BBC for broadcasting a full round of services - the King's live broadcast and the Leeds Midnight Mass on radio, and the King's carols, Westminster Cathedral Midnight and Chester morning masses on television. I've recorded but yet to hear/see most of them in full - a pleasure to be reserved for a quieter day with a glass of Christmas-present port. Cheers!
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I've always been impressed by the results achieved by certain church directors of music who, through the donation of generous quantities of their own blood, sweat and tears, manage to maintain happy, motivated choirs of committed singers performing first-class music. What is most impressive is that most of them have done this on their own.
I've always felt that the RSCM is missing a huge chunk of its remit (and thus a slice of potential membership) by ignoring the needs of 'decent' choirs in favour of encouraging those much lower down. (A few years ago, one such director of music said to me, "What have the RSCM got to offer me?") Surely the RSCM are the natural organisation to be offering vocal training, conducting and liturgy courses to parish music directors, and central resources for recruitment and PR? Sadly, they seem to be too busy promoting Margaret Rizza, Iona, and Geoff Weaver's "global songs", and generally presenting a carefully contrived balance between sacred and pop. I don't mean to knock efforts such as Voice for Life - generally the RSCM serve young choristers well. If you're in the right circles, you can even join one of the cathedral singers' groups when you're a little older. They just seem to abandon anyone over 25 to a lifetime of Bring and Sing Stainer Crucifixions and Kendrick. They seem to do nothing to support those choir directors who recruit and train young choristers who could benefit from VfL.
Is there another national church music body who could offer to coordinate such efforts? Or perhaps it's time for a separate organisation - perhaps a mutual association dedicated precisely to those areas David mentions?
Rev.
in General discussion
Posted
Makes sense - thanks.
As far as I see it, The Vicar of Dibley is relatively sympathetic to the church, while simultaneously managing to portray the congregation as bizarre misfits. Father Ted (which I personally find very funny) is IMHO fairly scathing towards the Irish RC church and its priests, as well as managing to poke fun at isolated Irish folk generally. I might not like the way that Rev. parodies awful hymn playing and singing, but it's hard to argue that such playing and singing isn't common enough, and - unlike Dibley and Father Ted - the entire scene is scarily realistic. "Now, I'm going to drop you off..... here."