nachthorn
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Posts posted by nachthorn
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Oh, that's not attractive! How did someone design that
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Where would one want the RCO hold these events? London is in a corner of the UK where there are already many facilities for organists of all ages to hear recitals and get tuition (for example, St Giles School) but it is not terribly convenient for people living in Carlisle, Penzance or Retford (or even in Welsh vicarages). They do an annual course in Cambridge and they hold events around the UK.
I agree that London is already very well provided with organ-related resources and activities, and is generally awkward and expensive to reach by most modes of transport. The move to Birmingham would have been good for organists throughout the country, but even with a London base they could still hold events in the 'provinces'. I will probably join when the time comes to do the ARCO, but otherwise I haven't seen the need - yet.
I think that the RCO are right to concentrate on education - we're all learning all of the time. The problem is that, around the age of (say) 25, those who are already on the CertRCO/ARCO/FRCO ladder continue with the RCO, and the rest find themselves left behind. The RCO needs to provide for (and appeal to) those not playing the organ for a living, but still want to find a lifetime of absorbing study in the instrument. They could have a very positive influence on attitudes towards the instrument in this country, and I will do everything I can to support such an influence.
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Two quick questions:
(1) I'm going to learn some Buxtehude. I'm aware of a number of different complete editions, and as I already use the Baerenreiter Bach edition, I would naturally incline towards using their Buxtehude edition too. Is this sensible? Do any of the other editions have their benefits? What are your experiences? (I should say that I haven't bought volumes of any edition yet.)
(2) Working on the middle movement of Hindemith's second Sonata. The are a number of instances of grace notes in the RH melody. Where applicable, for instance in the first couple of bars, do these grace notes fall on the downbeat, or just before? I've heard them recorded both ways, and while I'd incline towards playing them on the downbeat, I'm aware that I have been biased by the interpretation on a particular and favourite recording. Again, what do people think?
NH
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On Colin's recommendation, having bought a pair of Supadance 9000's (even at £70), my initial experience has been good. The heels are perfectly adequate for bridging thirds without getting in the way elsewhere, and the soles slide when you want them to slide and don't when you don't! I soon forgot I was wearing them, in fact. I used to wear Organmasters (which were always a little tight, even though I sent them my foot dimensions) but the soft sole of the dance shoes gives more feeling of control - IMHO - than the solid soles of the Organmasters (I seem to remember reading something about a steel shank in the base of the shoe or similar). Even with my great big feet, they're slim enough to allow the possibility of real accuracy - now it's down to practice and hard work!
To all who contributed their opinion - thank you. Although there were various 'models' of ballroom dance shoe recommended, they all looked very similar to the Supadance pair, so the advice was very valuable. I'll let you all know when I've got the Thalben-Ball variations sorted
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I always use socks myself. Anyone much over 6' tall will have difficulty moving his feet sideways over the pedals and the idea of heels of any sort is a non starter.
Well, I decided on Colin's suggestion and bought a pair of Supadance 9000's. Lightweight, comfortable, reasonably slim (even for my big feet) and the heels are OK without being obstructive.
Nazard, I'm 6'5 and have played in socks and flat shoes before with awful results. The heels I have now (as above) aren't a problem - knees against the underside of the keydesk and leg muscle tension are the troublesome areas
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I was not aware that David has already written in such appropriate terms. This still does not mean it is not worth hammering away, it should just come as less of a surprise 'on high'.
Does any member of this forum operate a website upon which an on-line petition could be signed? It would not be a great matter to ask the IAO (through Association secretaries) to spread the word to members that this is being done and a certain weight of public support could be shown.
There is, of course, the Petition section of the 10 Downing St website - http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/
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I'm a fine one to complain about hyperbole, I know, but isn't that a bit over the top? You know as well as I do that there is actually a fair amount of reasonable to very high quality music making available in the city for those who make the effort to search it out.
Yes, OK - maybe I was a little harsh. There are plenty of other places in the country that are worse, I suppose.
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Thank heavens for some practical sense - 'must be Hampshire or something.
Probably - the city I was referring to is Plymouth, well known for nothing musical. Apart from the Plymouth Suite, I suppose...
I think that the problem with church music is with some of the churches and with some of the people that inhabit them. I still get the feeling from some of the contributions here that it is felt that if we in schools did our job properly then church choirs would be full of musically literate, liturgically educated, repertoire wise top notch vocalists.I wasn't saying this in the least. I would expect any school teacher to be competent at the subject they teach, and would expect anyone teaching GCSE Music and beyond to have a Music degree or equivalent (or able to demonstrate an equivalent ability). To settle for anything less is to betray the pupils, and it is the responsibility of the educational authorities (in conjunction with universities and colleges) to ensure a good supply of suitably qualified teachers. I would also hope that every primary school would teach children to sing - not perfectly or necessarily as soloists, but just to sing musically in a group.
It is the responsibility of churches who run choirs to teach their children singing. If the schools have made some headway on this, excellent, but churches shouldn't assume that they can attract ready-trained young singers. Nor should churches allow situations where choirs degenerate to the level where they consist of eight old ladies, two elderly men and a dog, singing the same five easy anthems in rotation in quavery voices. David and Alastair are clearly experiencing success, to their great credit. I've always felt that a vibrant choir with children brings real life to a church, as well as giving them wonderful skills and the ability to participate fully in services. How do some churches not 'get' that?
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When I started learning to play, nobody ever explained that there would come a time when I had to decide, "Should I wear white satin cuban heeled latino dance shoes or not?"
Colin, thanks - the Supadance 9000 looks to be the thing, if a little on the pricey side.
Stephen - the shoe you referred to looks virtually identical the the shoe Colin mentioned - thank you. I knew people on here would have the right answer!
Oliver - let me know how you find the shoes you bought through eBay. If I can find the same thing on eBay more cheaply, AND avoid going into shops with windows full of silver glitter shoes, I'll be a happy man
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there are many Junior Schools now employing music specialists (sic!) who have had no music training themselves.
My wife was recently asked to spend an hour a week for a term in a local primary school, teaching one of the years how to sing. It turned out that their so-called music specialist couldn't sing, play the piano or read music, didn't know basic musical terms, and had no concept of the history of music at all, BUT - and here is her saving grace - she was an expert at selecting a track on a CD, pressing Play, and telling the kids to 'sing louder, yeah?'. The children would respond by shouting along half-heartedly with a CD track of vacuous generic happy pop. Genius.
At the end of term, my wife asked this waste of space music specialist what she planned to do next with the kids, now they had been taught to sing largely in tune and time, and given the experience of a range of genres and forms of music. No answer was forthcoming - perhaps she was hoping they might teach her a tune or two.
The local county council-run postgrad teacher training scheme combines music and drama, so in both theory and practice, a drama graduate can spend a year on their PGCE studying drama teaching, qualify as a music 'n' drama specialist, and end up teaching GCSE Music. Without ever having played or read a note. No wonder the exam boards have had to lower their sights.
At the church where I played a couple of years back, I sat in the vestry doing admin while a nearby junior school held their carol service. I knew it was a carol service because it said so on the overhead projector screen. Sadly it consisted of three hundred children shouting along with a CD playing the backing music for a series of pop songs that were neither religious nor related to Christmas. Afterwards, I asked whether they would welcome some help in their musical endeavours, particularly as I was about to start recruiting for a junior choir. No, they said, they didn't need any help - apparently they had specialists who did all of that. Could have fooled me.
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I had the good fortune to turn pages for Charles Harrison (Lincoln) at Christchurch Priory on Wednesday night. As well as being an assured and supremely musical player, he has a formidable pedal technique. I had a quick look at his shoes after the recital (with his permission, and after he had removed them...)
They were (apparently) dance shoes, with a thin flexible leather (or faux leather) upper, a suede sole flexible from just in front of the heel forward to the toe, and a 1.5" heel (which he said might be better built up just a little more). They looked fairly similar to Organmasters.
I know that dance or character shoes are supposed to be good for pedalling, but I've done a quick search of various dancewear websites without any obvious matches appearing. Do people have any comments on the use of these types of shoes and recommendations on where to pick them up without acquiring a second mortgage?
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Well all I would say is just try running a parish and see what you make of it....
And I'd bet that it wouldn't be too long before you too were rushing out for Mr Mayhew's new ipodthingie!
That's a fair point, Quentin, and I wasn't suggesting that individual churches were responsible. Serious things need to happen at a higher level - the problem is that nothing much is happening now. If anything, it affects clergy more than musicians, as it forces parishes into settling for third-best.
The difficulties are very real: I do not deny that. Efforts to overcome them may or may not be successful. But using the difficulties as an excuse to do nothing isn't likely to achieve the desired objective. And you might just enrich some kid's life, even if the exercise doesn't get you an organist in thirty years' time.Precisely. Done on an appropriate scale, results will be achieved. Some of the national organisations are doing good things. The RCO have introduced the CertRCO as a (IMHO) useful stepping-stone in education, there is quite a range of training courses (from the RSCM, Sarum College, Oundle, London Organ School etc.) but nothing from the Church authorities tying organ and other music tuition to churches. In the last diocesan music day I attended, they were more interested in Gospel singing and African drumming than anything immediately practical in a mostly-rural diocese. And if theological colleges have snipped out any substantial reference to music in clergy training, then we're all left disenfranchised, clergy, musicians and congregation alike.
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Or maybe most organists and most clergy are awkward old b*****s.
But of course some of us are neither old nor awkward!
I think that it is the endless snipes at clergy (assuming that we are all tarred with the same brush, that we all preach dull sermons, and walk roughshod over our parish colleagues) that do more harm than anything else and cause offense when it really is so un-necessary. Perhaps it's time for the clergy to start whining about ALL those organists who hate us, and who in any case don't bother to practice, and who insist on playing their Victorian hymns too fast or too slow or too high or too low. And who do all their power to be awkward when a <whisper> more modern hymn</whisper> is requested.I hardly think I was sniping at clergy, let alone in an endless way. Perhaps I've inadvertently touched a nerve? Not all clergy preach dull sermons - some are superb. My point was that no-one I know of has seriously proposed the replacement of a less-than-competent clergyperson with a blinking tape-recorder, let alone marketed a product specifically for the purpose!
Yes, there are many less-than-competent organists out there, and yes, many musicians are awkward. But if organists are viewed as human jukeboxes, why are we surprised? The fact is that, generally speaking, the Christian churches of this country are investing next to nothing in music and musicians, and that, viewed country-wide, the standard of music in the average parish church falls far, far short of our best efforts. If I'm handed a 'more modern' hymn three seconds before it's due to be sung, and it turns out to be some dusty relic of the seventies charismatic movement, 'words and music' by some self-taught guitarist who thinks that an invocation of the name of the Holy Spirit is a perfectly valid substitute for musical ability, then yes, I'm going to be disappointed. And why? Because offering such third-rate meritricious nonsense in an act of worship makes me feel like I'm betraying Him who gave me the gift of musicianship in the first place.
To me, it's common sense. Using pre-recorded 'music' in an act of divine worship has to be scraping the barrel, and we have to have gone seriously wrong to have reached that stage. It may be pragmatic to advocate its use now, but it's only deferring the problem until it becomes truly insurmountable. This is NOT sniping at clergy, many of whom I have the highest respect for. But a lack of musicians points towards a lack of investment in musicians and a lack of purpose about music. The solution may not be easy, but it is clear.
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It's because most radio stations - including BBC radio 3, at least on FM - insist on using "Optimod" processors so that the volume is kept up.
I have a bit of a theory about this. I believe the result of this compression (the 'backing off' of the volume) is analogous to that done by the human ear at considerably higher volumes. Is it possible that this effect fools the brain into thinking that volumes are louder than they are, therefore increasing listening fatigue?
(This is a totally unscientific and unsupported guess of an idea. Make of it what you will...
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This does seem to be a case of double-standards to an extent. Patrick and Tony's comments are very valid - being pragmatic, these products have a use on a week-to-week basis, and no-one has ever accused Kevin Mayhew of missing a commercial opportunity.
Morally (and in the long-term, practically) however, surely these things spell disaster in a number of ways:
1) A church that scraps a pipe-organ and replaces it with an electronic to, say, 'free up space' for an inter-faith healing salon and creche, is very unlikely to reverse that change. The pipe organ and the space has gone, and getting them back would be difficult. In the same way, replacing even a mediocre player with a recording is going to make it very difficult to revert to live music. The people and knowledge, the sheet music, possibly even the instruments, may have gone, never to return. It's a one-way street.
2) A church without regular decent musicians is likely to be the target for a product like this. By using pre-recorded music, the church are essentially opting out of live music and therefore lose any interest in supporting and training the next generation of musicians. The problem of a musician shortage is exacerbated, not alleviated.
3) A system like this is never going to produce an acceptable standard of church music, compared to what we KNOW to be possible and desirable in worship. A system like this, therefore, is going to render music as worthless and totally irrelevant wallpaper, capable of being generated at a verger's touch of a button. The last vestiges of engagement between congregation and music is lost to a pocket-size gadget.
4) Recordings don't answer back. Agreed, no hissy fits or demands for fees, but no feedback and collaboration on musical planning either. I doubt KM have a system which generates error messages such as "Error: processional hymn with fewer than four verses selected!" or "Error: this hymn is suitable for Epiphany, not Harvest Festival. Try again". How about "Message for visiting preacher: this congregation doesn't know this hymn".
5) I cannot think of a church, lacking a suitable and competent preacher on a particular occasion, which has opted to use a pre-recorded sermon rather than suffer rambling unstructured drivel from some random waffler. Given that, even in small churches, most sermons are delivered through loudspeakers anyway, surely there would be nothing to lose and everything to gain...and yet no-one would dare.
I know plenty of churches who suffer from a shortage of musicians, and virtually none of them have done anything to encourage or support the education of musicians. Some of them couldn't even organise a key for organ practice. Surely if you don't give, you don't get.
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Well you have taken a professional interest in recording. Most of us probably wouldn't notice the things you do
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As another former pupil of Paul, all I can say without bias is "Hear, hear".
As I should perhaps have made clearer, I wasn't faulting the playing in the least - Paul has a good reputation. Nor was my point really about the organ - I shouldn't have dropped that comment in. For me every track has a thin pervading hiss reminiscent of the bad old days of compact cassettes, which is just not there on other recordings, including others at Exeter, and which I find very wearing. I can't see that it can be a fault of my copy only. Oh well, perhaps it's my ears...
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As some of you will know, I give monthly organ concerts at one of my churches. It used to be weekly before a back injury (from which I've now fortunately recovered) made this difficult. I try to make these "tuneful", and try to balance the programme so that there's as much for the average listener to Radio Three as there is to the average listener of Classic FM (or even "The Organist Entertains"!), with the odd lollipop thrown in too!
Gareth, we have a lunchtime series at Christchurch Priory at 12.30pm on Thursdays, running from September to June. The performers are carefully 'encouraged' by Geoffrey Morgan to choose a varied and entertaining programme, usually including one Bach work and plenty of lightweight Hollins, Whitlock, transcribed lollipops etc. The result is an average audience of around 140 each week (or is that an average age...?) The more highbrow 'celebrity' summer evening series concerts draw fewer in comparison. Entry to the lunchtimes is free but there are collection plates in abundance, and inducements to have a Ploughman's lunch in Priory House etc. Geoffrey ensures a certain level of performance ability from the players (i.e. you'd get in, I wouldn't!) and the whole enterprise is flourishing.
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I assume this was subsequently released on CD by Regis? If so, I have it also, and had pretty much the same reaction - although I would be the first to acknowledge Hunt's musical gifts on the wider musical canvas, this recording seemed to consist of playing that was merely "going through the motions", and could not be more different from John Scott's St. Paul's recording of the G major sonata.
There's also the Naxos English Organ Music 2 disc by Donald Hunt from Worcester. Horrible sound from the Bradford. Of all the places that a disc like that could be recorded, why use an electronic?
Can I nominate 'Organ Imperial' - a Priory disc by Paul Morgan at Exeter. Nothing particularly wrong with the playing, although the organ sounds fairly dull and ultra-smooth at times. It's the constant deafening hiss through the entire recording. It cannot be wind noise, and it was supposed to be digitally recorded, so I wonder what went wrong...
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Interesting. So what was it in this training that cured you?
I've thought hard about this before. In my case, when I started training, I was nervous and fairly shy. On the course I had to force myself to take charge of situations, make instant decisions, sounding and acting authoritatively in order to pass exams and assessments (and therefore keep my job and career). I fairly quickly found that I was good at it, that I was effective as an authority, and that I enjoyed the buzz that the job provides gave me extraordinary confidence, leading to a virtuous circle. (This is air traffic control, in case you wondered!)
Here I stray into areas I know little about... however, I think that it was the combination of the inducement to perform, and the positive feedback from having done so that removed psychological barriers to success, and replaced them with a desire to experience the adrenalin rush associated with performance and (for me) with work. I can sit calmly through a developing aircraft emergency, maintain a clear head, and control the whole situation, therefore Stanford in G holds less terror by comparison
I could be talking rubbish, and the foregoing might only apply to me, as everyone works differently. However, my wife, who is a singer who also teaches singing, found that her performance nerves reduced steadily as she experienced real success as a teacher. I see a parallel here - removal of 'hang-ups' using positive feedback, and a desire to push yourself forward to gain more positive feedback and approval. This ties in with Malcolm's experience with reading successfully despite his stammer.
Entirely differently, having experienced both sides of the coin, I would suggest that easy and regular access to a practice instrument is vital to accurate learning. At school, I could practice for 5 minutes or 5 hours at pretty much any time, so I got a lot of work done. At university, the practice organ was only available after 6pm and needed keys and escorts by security staff to get to it. Result = not much practice done! I would also suggest that a teacher/tutor that one is comfortable with is essential - you shouldn't feel bad for making mistakes or asking potentially silly questions. I was taught by a well-known performer while at university, but I always felt that I should be doing better and proving myself worthy, hence everything I did was geared around trying not to look bad, rather than learning.
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I used to suffer very badly from performance nerves, so much that I would physically shake at the console during the more important performances. I remember accompanying a visiting choir at a cathedral and finding myself physically unable to play the right notes, despite knowing exactly what they were. Then, five years ago, I underwent a year's very intensive and pressured training for my day job. Emerging from this training, I found that my performance nerves had gone. Completely. I found that I was also far more confident in front of a choir, and in public speaking. Although it seems unlikely that many from here will follow the exact road I took, it shows that the key to solving a problem, particularly a psychological block, may lie somewhere else entirely.
However, I must confess to a terrible failing. I enjoy playing the organ. I enjoy it so much that, no matter how clearly I understand that the only way to learn a work securely is to break it down and commit it to muscle memory with consistent fingering, I just love sight-reading my way through some exciting piece without the slightest regard for accuracy. Knowing that every repetition of this puts the work further out of reach just makes me feel guilty, put that work away, and pick up another. In the last nine years, since I left school, my sight-reading has improved dramatically, but my secure repertoire has hardly changed. Even when I sit down and spend half an hour promising to work through fingering and actually learning the notes, I can't resist the temptation to take the little bit I've worked on for a 'test drive' before it's ready. Like a mechanic taking a half-repaired car for a spin, this habit undoes all of the hard work and knocks my confidence back, but I can't resist hearing the music. Hopeless.
A good friend of mine told me that, as an organ scholar, he used to practice on a ropey old village church organ (undisturbed for hours), so that when he came to play a recital at St. Paul's, the notes just fell into place. Perhaps that is the road to perfection - using a practice organ suitable only for note-bashing, without any temptation!
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The Chantraine editions are available through J. Butz Musikverlag (www.butz-verlag.de) - the full Chantraine catalogue is here. I bought a few scores from them last year, and I seem to remember that they were a little cheaper than those available through UMP (www.ump.co.uk) - they have a comprehensive organ catalogue on their website which lists all of their Cochereau scores.
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Another object lesson in coping with a time lag: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SDehSF8mXK0&...feature=related
Fascinating, Vox, thank you. French choirs have always sounded a little too operatic for me - now I know how far back it goes!
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Available here as a RealPlayer file.
Many thanks for the link, Wolsey - I was not aware of the site, in fact - but the quality is the same as the Listen-online version I already have. I need an off-air recording if anyone has it. (Sorry to be fussy!!)
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Dance Shoes For Pedalling
in General discussion
Posted
Could be the comparison between your previous shoes and the new ones. I'm using the same Supadance shoes without any problems, but that's compared to socks or undesirable pairs of street shoes. They'll probably feel better in a month or two...