jonadkins
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Posts posted by jonadkins
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Ah - but Liverpool Anglican Cathedral does have 5 open diapasons on the great...
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While there is no denying his technique and ability, and while I agree that you have to revel in the wonderful sounds that the RAH Willis can produce, I found it all a bit overpowering after a while. I agree with John Sayer about the Passacaglia. ("A tad relentless after a while")
Good to see so many there, though.
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One of the things (and there are many) at which I would like to be better is psalm accompaniment. Depending on where you go, the psalms can be either a necessary but uninspiring part of worship, or an art form, both from stalls and bench. I have heard that the recently much-discussed JSW was a past master of this.
I'd be grateful for tips, but also favourite chants, psalters, pet hates, favourite examples (either recorded or not).
I know I ought to look at the text and just take it from there, but I'd still be interested to know what the feeling is.
Many thanks!
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I would dearly love to be as good an organist at 35 as he is at 92.
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I remember bringing up this topic before: but it's always a fascinating subject. I once went to what was billed as a "workshop" on Improvisation with David Briggs, when he was still at Gloucester, but what was really an illustrated lecture. I think it was an RSCM thing. Of course, with someone as ludicrously talented as Briggs, it was always going to be interesting, but we all went home feeling a little inadequate!
Anyway, a lot of what he said boiled down to what has already been said here: or to quote the former Titulaire of Ste. Clotilde: "Improvisation cannot just be improvised! ie it is a process of spontaneous composition, rather than playing and hoping. David said that Langlais got him to do a short paraphrase (I forget which plainsong theme it was), only to have the unnerving experience of the Maitre playing back EXACTLY what he had just done!
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Many thanks everyone - most helpful.
In my travels, I came across a version by The Sixteen accompanied by piano duet as well!
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Our choir are doing this at the moment. I don't suppose there are any versions specifically for organ accompaniment? Failing this, any advice? I'm currently grappling with a Novello edition...
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Thanks for the responses and offer to start things, drd - The links to material on directing (like giamusic - very forward-thinking) are great, but one of the things I like about this site is the opportunity for mutual support and ideas-sharing.
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I am about to have increased responsibility for directing our choir, after having played for several years, and was wondering if there are messagebords of the quality of this one devoted to directing/conducting. I realise that many contributors to this forum will also have responsibilities in this area.
This is a superb forum, and I have learnt a great deal from it, and I'm sure I will continue to do so. I'm sorry if this is not the place, being as it obviously is an organists' forum, but any suggestions re. MBs, or alternatively advice, shared experiences would be most welcome.
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Thanks for the responses - I agree that it is worth doing provided you treat it as good music, notwithstanding some of the unintentionally comic moments already mentioned. Certainly as accompanist, it does not pay to be too blase about it!
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I realise that the topic title alone might put some people off responding, but having just played for one "performance" of this, I was wondering whether anyone on the board has had to play it, (or will play it on Good Friday).
No-one could ever argue that it is the greatest music ever written, but in spite of this I am curious to know if people feel it is worth doing, if not every year?
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St. John's College, Oxford, Saturdays 1730:
2010:
6 Feb. Wolfgang Zerer
22 May Jacques van Oortmerssen
6 Nov. Peter van Dijk
2011:
12 Feb. Hans Fagius
28 May Ben van Oosten
5 Nov. Ton Koopman
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There's been no mention of a set I have here (the complete Franck) by Dame Gillian at Aarhus cathedral. recorded 1997. I confess it's a long time since I've listened to it but I seem to recall that, for me, it was ideal. I'd be interested to hear whether anyone else has any comments on it.
Yes - I've seen that this was once available and would love to hear it, but it is, alas, deleted at present!
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I was sorry to see the Roth recording dismissed, as I believe that in terms of interpretation he is miles in front. However, it is easy for us to disagree with something as subjective as this; we all have passionately held ideas about how Franck MUST be played! Graeme Kay did explain his criteria, though, and I do appreciate Radio 3 giving serious consideration to organ music.
By the way, I like to think of myself as a "general music lover" as well!
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Is the 3rd bar of the In Paradisum /i] a 5/4 bar (I think it's the third - I don't have the score on me, but it's certainly in the 1st line) Looking at it it must be, but Duruflé normally changes the time sig. Am I mistaken?
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I can see the other side of the coin, though....
To most people, organ voluntaries are quite irrelevant. They have done their worship, sung the last hymn, received the blessing and are ready to depart. I'm sure they'd wonder why they'd have to sit and listen to an instrument to which they'd never normally bother to listen.
Whereas most of us probably take care to play pieces which are relevant to the theme of the day, this is totally irrelevant to 99.999999 per cent of those in the congregation. The organ voluntary might be part of our worship, but I can imagine that they would think it wasn't part of theres!
This can also lead to ever decreasing circles as the organist thinks "Well, if they're not listening, it doesn't matter if I haven't done quite as much work on the end of the piece as I'd intended" Not, though, that I am implying that members of this board do that: They are too professional, but it could happen like this with others.
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The person making this claim could always say that it stood for "Fellow of Royston-Vasey College of Origami", or something similar.
Impossible : as everyone knows, once in Royston Vaisey "You never leave"!
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Not sure if this is a silly question:
How much time does an average organist need in order to learn an advanced piece from scratch and get it ready for a recital?
It is a lifetime's work, really, but I want to know if it is reasonable to spend 6-12 months to learn, say, Bach's Trio Sonata No. 2, Mendelssohn's Sonata No. 1, or Durufle's Prelude and Fugue on the Name Alain.
I am fairly new to the organ and have been told that it takes a year to learn a Bach trio sonata. I feel like, for other instruments, the general consensus is that a piece is probably inappropriate for the student's technical demand if it takes that long to learn.
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Here is a related question:
For most organ students, practice time on a large instrument is probably very limited. How can one learn to register effectively, refine the articulation, and master the piston changes for a piece in an hour or two?
And what do people do when they have to perform a recital program on an unfamiliar instrument?
I feel that I can register a piece pretty quickly on a mid-size instrument (40-50 stops), but on a large instrument (70+ stops), I can spend hours and hours trying to come up with convincing registration.
Hello, and welcome.
The questions you raise are very interesting ones, but extremely difficult to answer! Few people would dispute that if a piece is not ready by a certain deadline then you shouldn't play it, nor should you have offered to in the first place. In the absence of an obvious deadline, though, provided you keep making progress, retain enthusiasm for the piece, have some idea of how you want it to sound, and don't play it in public (ie at a service, recital) before you are truly happy with it, then the fact that it might have taken what you consider to be "long time" is neither here nor there - it takes as long as it takes. If this sounds a rather "Boycottian" approach (as in Geoffrey, the cricketer), then your advantage over him is that a Lord's capacity crowd has not had to sit through the process of your learning a piece in its entirety, from scratch! However, this absence of any deadline can sometimes be problematic. Picture the scene: you have just beeen inspired by your favourite recitalist playing something wonderful, but you think I'm sure I could do that, given time, so you track down the score, take it to your instrument and wallow in the easiest/your favourite bits, but in time you come to difficult sections, enthusiasm wanes, and the piece joins a collection of half-learnt carcasses purchased with the best of intentions. This doesn't mean, though, that you should use a deadline to goad yourself on in attempting something unrealistic.
It's much more useful to ask yourself specific questions about your repertoire and learning, such as;
Services:
What services do I have coming up?
What do they require?
Do I know the stuff to accompany the choir well enough?
What about my own repertoire? (in that order, by the way) What is relevant liturgically? Can I learn/revise it in time?
Recitals:
When are they?
Is the instument familiar?
Who will the audience be?
Can I offer a rewarding, musically balanced programme without learning a piece from scratch?
If I HAVE to learn a piece, am I within sight of being happy with it in time, without having to do unrealistic amounts of extra practise?
Sorry if this is really obvious, it probably isn't what you wanted. However, If I were offered a recital in a year's time, I WOULDN'T offer to play my first JSB trio sonata if I didn't know it yet, just on the strength of possibly being able to learn it in time!
PS Apologies if I have offended any Yorkshire cricket fans.
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Sorry, but I agree with Vox. Whilst I would very much like to play as well as David Briggs, Olivier Latry and one or two others, there is nothing in Cameron Carpenter's style of playing (notwithstanding his prodigious technique) which I find attractive.
I fully concur with this - certain people we may admire their technique, but others we admire for their technique AND their supreme musicianship - Roth, Latry, Trotter et al.
As a general point, we ought to be allowed to express opinions on performances without anything more venal or personal being read into them, provided the comments are not libellous, slanderous or just plain unkind.
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Very sorry to hear this - I remember his contribution when the Leighton's complete organ works were played at St. Giles, Edinburgh in 1993.
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Does anyone remember a stunning historical recording of this (I think from Dresden Hofkirche) played during radio 3's Bach marathon at christmas a couple of years ago? The playing really seemed to combine grandeur and vitality such as I had not heard before, nor have I heard since.
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Why should we write only about recordings of organists who are no longer with us? They can't defend themselves!
I'll take the risk and mention one record that disappointed me so badly: Elgar's organ music from Worcester Cathedral, played by Donald Hunt.
I bought the Alpha record in the 80s in Worcester Cathedral, hoping to take home a nice sample of the organ. How disappointed I was after playing it!
Registrations which can be described as colourless and dull, hardly a third of the organ seems to be used, a very "neo-baroque" approach, no musical tension at all. And quite a distant, monophonic recording. Unbelievable, compared with the later Hyperion recordings of Elgar's choral music under the direction of D. Hunt.
I assume this was subsequently released on CD by Regis? If so, I have it also, and had pretty much the same reaction - although I would be the first to acknowledge Hunt's musical gifts on the wider musical canvas, this recording seemed to consist of playing that was merely "going through the motions", and could not be more different from John Scott's St. Paul's recording of the G major sonata.
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Didn't it also have the delightful Glad that I Live am I? This certainly reminds me of my tme a junior school where we used Songs of Praise. I think Martin Shaw wrote the music but I cannot recall who wrote the words.
Yoda.
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Reading David Harrison's post in the previous topic (Mixed choirs) reminded me of the phenomenon we have all experienced: the late, sometimes very late bride. It scarcely needs stating how annoying this is to all concerned, but does anyone have formal policies with regard to this? Obviously if there are many weddings in one day any one late starting risks losing its "slot", but even in the event of the wedding being the only one that day there is still the matter of courtesy to those who have given up a portion of their Saturday to participate in any way.
How do others deal with this? Does any one have an agreed cut-off point after which they send the choir (and themselves) home?
Voluntary for Induction of New Priest
in General discussion
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I'm afraid I can't hear the Marche Pontificale without thinking of the first two lines of the verse of "Is this the way to Amarillo?", of Peter Kay fame...