gazman
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Posts posted by gazman
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Party action, whether it's up to it, and partly acoustic....reverb killing fast detail. The other thing is the repeated chords which are often heard as one when played fast.
Yes, of course. Thanks. It was late last night when I posted, and I had just returned from a post choir rehearsal celebration in the local hostelry, so the brain cells were probably somewhat befuddled - even more so than usual!
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The gauntlet has been thrown down: Won't someone build an organ that goes to eleven?
Just don't mention this to Pierre....
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There is a lot of repetition going on in this piece so I believe, like many Toccatas, that it should be played slower than most do, to aid clarity. Hakim's recording is also my firm favourite, as the notes can be heard at a sensible pace.
R
Whilst I don't disagree, what would the amount of repetition have to do with dictating the pace for reasons of clarity?
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I shall console myself with the fact that I did....
Oh do pipe down please PCND before we get any more of these silly puns....!
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Not even necessary.
Guess under which name I shall attend ?
Pierre
Diapason Phonon?
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What a fascinating thread, and a fine demonstration of the diverse knowledge and talents we have on this Forum.
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Good heavens, there are now three versions of Demessieux's “Octaves” on Youtube:
I know it's not quite politically correct to say this in serious organists' circles, but: I think I actually prefer the guy in white here.
Shhh!
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After initially thinking it was a bit naff, I've come round to thinking that it's actually very good.
But how is it going to be marketed? It needs to be proactive. I can't see most school teachers searching it out unless it's put right in front of their noses.
And I fully agree with the link to organ teachers being the weakest one. Why don't they do something along the lines of a database as they did with "National Learn the Organ Year" a few years back?
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I don't disagree: as I said, in the BUILD-UP, I think Willis mixtures work best coming on after the reeds, but that isn't to say that they can't be used with the flues alone.
No point of disagreement really.
DW
Would you say that that was the case with all of Father Willis's mixtures, David? There is only really one that I can think of where the Mixtures seemed - to my ears - to be best brought on after the reeds, and that is the organ now at Great Torrington Parish Church. On all other Willis organs, the mixtures seem to me to be a logical top to the flue chorus - even Tierce mixtures - before reeds are added.
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Whilst the programme - at least on paper - would be unlikely to attract me, if it attracts people who would normally not attend an organ recital (as I think Guilmant's was implying about the friends he mentioned earlier), then I'm rather in favour of it. I would probably even think about taking some non-organist friends myself were it in my part of the world!
I have a feeling that most people who attend classical music concerts would not attend an "organ recital" as they perceive organ recitals to be recitals of obscure music played on dusty old organs by dusty old organists. I know, because I've spoken with several people who would seem to rather an evening watching paint dry than hearing a concert on the organ. We need to reach out and meet these people half-way.
As a case in point, I give monthly organ recitals at one of my churches. The concerts always consist of tuneful music and, whilst they have a regular and loyal following, never exactly pack out the church alas. However, last month's "Organist's Last Night of the Proms" where people were encouraged to bring hooters, whistles, Union flags, &c, to sing "Rule Britannia", Jerusalem, "Land of Hope & Glory" and to clap along to the "Gigue" fugue, and generally join in with "The Entertainer", "Liberty Bell" and other pieces, DID pack out the church. I still get stopped in the town by people who were in the audience - and who I'd not seen before - praising the concert and asking for details about the next organ concert.
Get people onside by whatever means are necessary, and then we stand a chance of keeping them interested in organ music. If this needs the occasional "gimmick", then so be it. As a case in point, I'm considering at next month's recital - the last in the year, and a request recital (you can guess many of the pieces already requested) - rising to a challenge I've been given of playing THE Widor blindfolded. I know many of my colleagues on this discussion board will probably scoff at this but, if it gets us good publicity in the local press, and gets another church full of people for an organ concert, then that's a good thing in my book.
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I actually find it shows great integrity on the part of Manders to facilitate such discussion of other builders work. It shows they fear nothing from their competitors, and rightly so, I have always found their instruments a real pleasure to play.
Yup, totally agreed!
But I still feel uncomfortable that Manders "give" free publicity to their competitors through some of our postings.
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Yet Mr. Mander did not express disapproval at the time. I recall that another contributor disagreed strongly when I made the same point. Personally I would not wish to do anything that would cause offence to our host.
Nor I. You'll no doubt remember that I have - more than once - brought up the fact that I have thought it rather distasteful to give "free" publicity (actually, publicity funded by Manders) to two other organ builders on two other topics much discussed on this board.
Ormond has already been mentioned. Perhaps some found these posts amusing. However, as our host has stated, he pays for the bandwidth and neither of these links were remotely organ-related. Again, surely it is reasonable for him to request that humour, etc is at least related to pipe organs - or church music?Dare I say, PCND, that you - as well as I - have been guilty of going off on a tangent far away from pipe organs in our attempts at introducing humour on this discussion board before?
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To pick up on but one point - since Mr. Mander is kindly funding the bandwidth (and therefore the existence) of this board, I think that it is entirely reasonable for him to request that we refrain from discussing electronic substitutes.
Yes, of course J.P. Mander has the right to dictate the rules, but I think it unfortunate to remove humour for the reasons given. I, personally, am more uncomfortable about the publicity given by some members towards competitors' offerings where our hosts would have been more than able to build a similar - if not better - organ, as I've stated here before. Giving publicity to other pipe organ builders on a discussion forum funded by a leading pipe organ builder seems somewhat distasteful to me, and rather worse than discussing electronic simulators which probably offer no competition to such an esteemed pipe organ builder as our hosts.
I do take your point regarding humour, richness and diversity; however, the post involving the idiot who 'lost' his car appeared to me to give cause for pity - as opposed to humour. The link to the spoof sale of Iceland arguably was irrelevant.Well, the esteemed Guillaume Ormond "lost" his car more than once. Whilst both posts were irrelevant to the topic of pipe organs, I'm sure they raised a smile in a number of members. What's the harm in that?
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Dear All,
Our moderator has (as you will have noted) deleted a few threads which were inappropriate for this discussion board.
Could I appeal to all members of the discussion board to avoid making postings which have nothing to do with pipe organs? This board has the potential to be informative and interesting to all who have an interest in the pipe organ and its music. If we become frivolous, those amongst us who really have interesting things to say will ignore it and go elsewhere. I think that would be a shame.
The board is not cheap to run, but we think it provides a valuable service to the organ world and we are happy to do that. But the purpose will become seriously diluted if we do not, collectively, ensure it engenders an exchange of ideas on a reasonably high level.
For the avoidance of doubt, could I also reiterate that anything to do with electronic organs does not have a place on this board.
I hope you do not mind my making this appeal and hope that it continues to be an informative and interesting forum for constructive discussion.
With very best wishes to you all,
John
Dear John,
Thank you for kindly explaining Rachel's thoughts behind deleting three recent threads, which she felt to be inappropriate to the discussion board.
May I firstly join with those who wish to say thank you for kindly hosting and financing this discussion board? I, along with many others, derive much pleasure and gain learning from the contents therein. It certainly does provide a valuable service to the organ world, both to its users and to those who read it without contributing, and is much appreciated indeed.
However, I would also like to defend the intentions of those whose recent posts have been deleted. Firstly, the poster who informed us - happily totally wrongly as it turned out - that our regular, highly entertaining and informative contributor MusingMuso had passed away. My understanding is that, in research for her forthcoming book, she needed agreement from each of us whom she is quoting to include our contributions in her publication. She made strenuous attempts to contact the aforementioned member, who had disappeared from the board, but with no success. I know full well that several of our members (me included) were concerned about the reasons for MM's disappearance from the board and had liaised with other contributors to try and confirm his well-being. The OP was subsequently given apparently reliable information from an apparently very reliable source - who personally knew MM - about MM's demise. Incidentally, MM once posted, himself, along the lines that he felt closer to members of this discussion board than he did to neighbours and others around him, and I think that many of us regard others on this board as good friends, albeit in Cyberspace. I think it only natural, then, that the OP would publish to let us know what seemed to be a certain, sad fact after strenuous enquiry. The happy fact that it was wrong is merely reason to rejoice and, granted, perhaps, to delete the thread.
The other two "humorous" threads were, obviously, intended as "throwaway" threads merely to entertain friends. Of course they weren't intended as items for discussion - and, therefore, weren't intended to fill bandwidth with many replies - but were merely items intended to bring a smile to colleagues and friends, which I am sure was the intention of the two OPs.
I am concerned that a discussion board which aims to engender ideas on a reasonably high level could become one which becomes dryly academic and argumentative, and one subsequently frequented by a few rather than by many. Human nature being as it is, most of us appreciate a bit of humour and some banter from time to time, as well as serious discussion. I am certainly one person who will go to his computer more often in the hope of some amusement whilst gaining learning rather than with the intention of merely discussing matters at a high level. I doubt that I am the only one who feels this way, and I think the variety offered on the Mander board is the source of its richness.
Turning to electronic organs, whilst I understand your position as a builder of the very finest of pipe organs, I am sorry to read that you think that electronic organs should be totally excluded from discussion. Electronic substitutes are a fact of life. Whereas I would personally love to have at home a mechanical organ built by a leading firm such as yours the fact is that I, as is the case with many others, unfortunately do not have the space nor the finance to commission such an instrument and, without an electronic substitute, would find rehearsal facilities seriously curtailed. Whilst I believe that most churches and concert halls which require an organ should aim for a decent pipe instrument, sometimes funds will only extend to electronic simulators. I know that there are people and organizations out there in such a position who, unable to finance a decent pipe organ, will have to make do with an electronic substitute. To deny them access to advice from the wide range of expertise in both pipe and electronic instruments available from those who contribute to the Mander discussion board would, in my opinion, be unfortunate indeed.
I think that this discussion board will continue, with your kind support, to be an informative and interesting forum for constructive discussion, but I think that, human nature being what it is, allowance should be made for the inclusion of humour and going off on the odd tangent from time to time, including tangents into electronic substitutes where necessary. I think that the board is all the richer for this, and would be much poorer as a mere academic discussion forum, frequented by the few.
I see that, on the homepage, you say that you will "add or delete fora as appropriate". As a suggestion, would it be possible to consider an additional forum for such throwaway items of humour which could, perhaps, be included in the short term but then dispensed with so as to avoid your need for paying for bandwidth for items which do not directly contribute towards serious discussion about pipe organs?
Once again, I greatly appreciate your generosity in hosting this magnificent forum. But I fear that any well-intentioned attempts to limit humour and wider discussion might rather limit the rich and varied input put into this discussion board by its learned, intelligent and witty members rather than enhance it.
With grateful thanks, and with every good wish.
HG
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So did you hear it this afternoon? (I used it during I was glad, at a wedding.)
Oh, don't talk to me about I was glad!
I'm playing it four nights on the trot for a repeat concert next week. We had a rehearsal last week with the brass, who are joining in for a number of items in the concert. I'm hopping between the piano and the organ throughout the concert, and shall be hoping that I know where I should be (and have the necessary score there!) next.
However, unfortunately, there are two significant problems. The first is that, when I'm at the piano, all the brass players are tightly packed right next to my left side, and are constantly playing flat-out. Added to that, I have a drummer for various items right behind me, with cymbals and drums virtually digging into my back. After last week's rehearsal, I left for home with severely depleted hearing and with both ears hurting, and my left ear still doesn't feel normal yet. I'm going to take ear plugs with me next week for each of the concerts. Far from ideal, I know, but I couldn't stand it otherwise. The sound level physically hurts.
The second is problem is that, when I'm at the organ and they join me for I was glad and RVW's Old 100th, I am sitting at a detached console, quite a long way from the instrument. In between me at the console and the organ I have the brass players. Then there is staging for a 70 strong choir and, buried behind them, is the instrument itself at the opposite end of the church. I can't hear a single thing from the instrument, even if playing on full organ! It's rather disconcerting actually...
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Jawohl. Ihr Englisch ist fliessend. Keine Probleme!
Willkommen Tiratutti!
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I understand they can hear the frigging thing in France if there's a Southerly wind blowing!
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And no prizes for guessing *W*here!
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Here is another vision of Bach one may like -and I do-:
http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=m66PBlJX4uA&...feature=related
Far remote from any historical reference, this deserves its place
as well as an historic vision by itself.
Pierre
Yes, actually I agree with you, Pierre. After hearing this recording, I parted with some hard-earned money a few weeks ago and ordered the book which has this arrangement, and have enjoyed learning it over the past couple of weeks along with another couple of VF's arrangments which I actually included in last Thursday's recital at Paignton. I shall now take shelter whilst accusations of being a "tasteless blighter" come thick and fast no doubt!
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It lists organ stops?
Oh, PCND!
A Cornopean is a type of cornet-à-pistons, an instrument in its own right! Next, you'll be telling us that Clarinets are only organ stops.....
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This implies that the organ is going to be scrapped. Far from it! There are plans to move it to another place, somewhere where it will get daily use and have rather more importance than the authorities in Warrington have ever given it. This is a fabulous organ and deserves to be used regularly.
Yes, and replace that awful toaster!
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Blimey! I have eye-strain after reading that!
Features Of This Excellent Board
in General discussion
Posted
And a certain member seems to have made no less than 23 postings thus far today.... Crumbs, what some people do on their days off!!!
;)