innate
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Posts posted by innate
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Great site, and I'm sure it's an amazing organ.
I enjoyed this, on the Organ in Facts page:
Numbers of Registers: 63
Numbers of noisy Registers: 47
Michael
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Well, Winchester nick has one, a 1 manual Osmond, and according to NPOR several others do. Wormwood Scrubs has a whacking great 3m Compton.
I wonder if they used the Compton when they performed Sweeney Todd in Wormwood Scrubs with lifers in the cast?
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Many thanks for all the help from members of the group.
I now have all his contact details
Michael
[original post edited]
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Sing the theme toon, download the theme toon,
look what I found
For Ozzie soap organ stuff you have to go back to Mrs Mangan (?) playing the organ for her son's wedding in Neighbours c. 1989.
Michael
(and *I* was reprimanded in another thread for going off topic!)
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I'm going to stick up for the Beckerath at Clare and in its recent incarnation the Johnson at Catz.....but in general I think you're right that Oxford does rather better on theorgan front.
No apologists for Robinson here? I quite enjoyed accompanying a recital by a soprano on it a few years ago; obviously I couldn't use many of the louder stops but apart from being so close to the pipes and therefore very aware of slips the sound and the action were lovely.
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An ordained friend likes to refer to friends as God's apology for relatives.
Michael
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May I make a suggestion which might not at first be one you want to hear, but perhaps you might consider.
I take the view that when people ask for things like this they really want the real thing and not some cod version for the organ.
Also, frankly speaking it's a terrible imposition on your time and Brandenburg 5 isn't ever going to be straightforward - to play it well would take hours of hard work and you won't have that for a funeral in a few days time. So the first thing is I tell them exactly that - i.e. they couldn't afford to pay for the amount of time it would take me to learn, partly because, having learned it, I am unlikely to have any use for it in the future.
Usually at this point they make more reasonable and conventional choices - e.g. I would suggest organ music by Bach that could be of an equivalent style. You'll know what you can play.
Failing that if they really want that particular music and the clergy agree - it's usually some contemporary or pop/soul music in this instance - they just play a recording over the PA system or even on a portable sound system. It makes no difference to me and they are happy because they hear what they wanted in the version they are familiar with. You don't need to be enslaved to their requests, on the other hand one should try to provide what they want ,within reason for pastoral reasons.
remember - organ music isn't compulsory. And you should still get your fee. It's their choice. Be flexible.
Hope this helps.
Belated thanks for the constructive suggestions. As it turned out, the clients had heard this particular movement played on the organ and as they were connected to professional musicians and were paying a very acceptable fee I determined to give them what they'd requested. I got hold of the Cembalo part and added in pencil, from the score, all the flute or violin parts where they were required. The result was much more effective than I would have imagined and a church full of Hampshire folk experienced something a little out of the ordinary! I should point out that I have played the harpsichord part in concert before so there were no insurmountable difficulties for me there.
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I for one regard the FRCO very highly, if only because of the difficulties involved in achieving it. I positively yearn to get to a point where I can have a go -- does that make me sad?
Compared to the fellowship dips offered by other institutions (e.g. ABRSM, Trinity, LCM etc.) one might say that the performance element of FRCO seems the _easiest_ (granted, the marking scheme adopted may be particularly harsh) but of course there are all those other hoops to jump through.. arbitarily awkward though some of them may be.
I was extremely proud when I passed ARCO at the ripe old age of 35, if only because it's not every day you get the thoughts of three cathedral organists on one's own playing (in my case Exeter, St. Albans and Southwark I think...)
And you should be proud! Well done!
I would love to see the demographic of those passing ARCO and FRCO. What is the average age? How rare is an FRCO for someone in their 30s/40s/50s ? Does one have to do it in the "white heat" of studenthood or early 20s to have any chance? Perhaps there is no hope for me...Not a demographic but I passed ARCO paperwork first time at 18 and the playing 6 months later. I took FRCO three years later and passed the playing first time but failed the paperwork - this was a few weeks after getting a good 2nd Class degree in Music at Oxford. As they say these days "Go figure!". I never bothered retaking the paperwork and wouldn't dream of putting myself through an exam now.
At the presentation ceremony for my ARCO the recital was given by Nicholas Kynaston who made a short humble speech in which he warmly congratulated all the diploma holders for doing something he would never have been able to do, referring to his FRCO (hon.).
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Hi
How about that for service - the survey of the C-C in it's original form was only added to NPOR (by me) last Friday!
Every Blessing
Tony
Thanks for the info and your committment to the NPOR, Tony. I think you forgot the stops of the Grand Orgue and is it really Vox Humaine on the Positif?
Cheers,
Michael
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Well actually it DOES change the character of an organ by moving pipes up or down a semitone. Up and it will be thicker, down and it will be thinner. The pipe scale relative to the note will be altered quite obviously. The RAH was rescaled several notes as it lacked power so we are told, listen to that vile thing now. I pity any organ builder having to try to make a musical instrument of it.
R
But isn't scale fundamentally to do with the ratio of the length to the circumference and only incidentally connected to absolute pitch? Of course a "B major" chord will sound lower and therefore slightly thicker than a "C major" chord but what is it that makes a chord inherently "C major"?
As I understand it, in Bach's time the pitch for insruments in the court was a full tone lower than the pitch of the organs in the churches, so when the orchestra played with the organ in church the organist had to play a tone lower than the orchestra. Which was the "real" E minor of the opening of the St Matthew Passion? The E minor of the orchestra or the D minor of the organ? Or is the question rather: which is the real E minor, the E minor of the St Matthew Passion or the E minor of the Wedge Fugue?
Rescaling the RAH organ as you describe must mean changing the length of a pipe with regard to its circumference. Simply moving the pipes up or down would just change the pitch, not the volume.
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However, I enjoy having my 32' pedal reed enclosed on my current instrument - with the box shut it's quite usable underneath a small choir, with the box open, it destroys everything in its path.
I presume that it's an electronic 32' reed - is there an enclosed 32' acoustic stop anywhere in the world?
Michael
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The better - and even more expensive and time-consuming method - is to individually lengthen every pipe, rather than bung all the pipes up a note or two. Not an easy task, but I believe they did this at Southwark. I guess it probably still affects scaling a little but not as much as moving the pipes up a note.
I might well be missing the point here, but moving the pipes up a note is effectively changing only the name of the pipe and not changing its scale or character at all. It is merely saving the organist the trouble of transposing everything a semitone. Apart from questions of temperament the organbuilder's and voicer's creation is maintained.
There is, as far as I know, nothing inherent in any pitch standard so that an A has some sort of "A quality". See the appendix to Helmholtz which lists in pitch order a great many different pitch standards over the centuries and countries.
Michael
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But this situation is a parish church where an organist is needed to fill in for a few services. It is not necessarily asking for cathedral organists.
But what annoys me is the judgmentalist attitude, "well I'm not interested because you don't have a pipe organ or the right acoustic.", as if the Christian faith is based on such criteria. I would not like people to make that sort of comment about my organ, but I suppose such behaviour is expected from those in their high and mighty organ lofts.
I would not have used the word "judgmentalist"; rather "discerning" or "artistic". At the risk of exacerbating the situation I think Lee's attitude is the more judgmental; "First remove the beam from your own eye".
At least Andrew included the important information in his appeal. If he hadn't considered that "Viscount" might be a deal-breaker he probably wouldn't have mentioned it.
Michael
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Well, what what a wonderful example of Christian love we have just witnessed. How helpful...
I think that's unfair, Lee. We are organists and real organs have pipes. Imagine asking a concert pianist to give a recital for a church on a digital piano, or expecting a string quartet to play Mozart on electric instruments.
Nothing to do with Christian love.
Michael
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I think he is better known than your comment might suggest Jeremy. Here is a link to his website.
I've never seen so many shiny shirts in one place!
Michael
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All I can say is that there are loads of scores you come across from Bach through to Rossini where you get C clefs times 3, and no matter what amount of time you'd take preparing (even transcribe Rossini's Stabat Mater if you wish) when standing on the rostrum and someone asks you a question then THAT's when you wish you could read the clef fluently.
But it's like all exams - it's there to test you, surely, not just see what you already know? It's about what you do when required to think on your feet... to push your boundaries, stretch your mind. (Except we don't do that anymore in modern education do we? Everyone passes, just some pass better than others. "All pigs are equal...")
I'm with you on this, Alsa. Three C-clef scores are rife in various areas of church music; Christ Church, Oxford used to sing a Brahms Motet from such a score. And even if you never have to read Soprano clef in your working life the fact that you can indicates all sorts of good things about your musicianship. I didn't realise it at the time, but looking back on it, the main point of the Harmony and Counterpoint papers at Oxford was to check how much you could "hear" music in your head. The opposite end of the spectrum was an O-level Music teacher who demonstrated a whole-tone scale on the piano to my brother's class by reading it off some manuscript paper.
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Insofar as the Duruflé Toccata is concerned, the speeds are marked clearly - whilst there is no rallentando until just before the final chord, neither is there any accelerando (or even stringendo). Duruflé was fastidious in his compositions - it can only be assumed that he did not want a cadenza played at white-heat, however effective this may appear to be.
Well, there is an accelerando from dotted crotchet = 84 to crotchet [sic -should be dotted] = 126 from bar 137 to bar 144.
Michael
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nah, thats not true! I played the Veni Creator choral variations during a service the other week (choral, plainsong, theme, plainsong etc) and they're not that bad at all really to play. And actually I think the Dupre G minor is a lot easier than it looks; having performed it at the cathedral with just 2 weeks practise and I'm faaaaaar from being a virtuoso!!
I'm not sure but I think I saw the Dupré G minor on the list of pieces for AB Grade 7. Can that be right?
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This reminds me (as if I need any reminding) just why I hate weddings somuch. People just don't think, do they? Probably the best thing would be to arrange it for organ and clavinova.
I don't know of an organ-only arrangement, but I would have thought you could get away reasonably well with just playing the organ part and filling in the orchestral ritornelli?
Thanks for the support, vox! Actually it isn't a wedding, but a post-funeral memorial and I'm happy to oblige if I can. I have just played it through on the piano from the score and your suggestion will do as a last resort; sometimes the harpsichord rh is less convincing than the flute/violin stuff on its own. I'm gonna need a page-turner
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I have been asked to play the first movement from Brandenburg 5 at a service. A quick google hasn't shown anything useful. Is anyone aware of an arrangement of Brandenburg 5 for organ? I have to say that I suspect that even if one exists it will probably be by Reger and be unplayable by mortals. Thanks in advance for any help.
Michael
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I'm sorry, but it's a very rough brash and honky sound, I remember it having the most foul Krumhorn (or is that crumhorne ?)
Cromorne, if I recall correctly. Perhaps there should be a poll along the lines of Ch Ch Rieger - is it a cr*** of sh***? Although I don't think I have the courage or knowhow to set it up myself.
My opinion is that it is a first-class instrument for much of the solo literature and is more than adequate for most of the rest. As an accompaniment to the anglican choral repertoire it places constraints on the player but that is not a bad thing per se. From a design point of view it is a shame that the Cornet is on the Great rather than the Bombarde, and independent mutations (even using principal-scaled stops) would be more flexible than the Sesquialtera on the choir. I would agree with the previously expressed opinion that the action is lovely and wrong notes glaringly apparent.
I remember the old organ as an RSCM cathedral course chorister c.1973 and from a couple of plays in 1977. It wasn't such a brilliant specimen of the romantic cathedral organ - there was a wooliness which went some way to compensating for the lack of a cathedral acoustic but playing, say, Bach and Leighton was at best unrewarding.
My experience of the Rieger includes wasting too much time listening to the voicer at work, hearing the opening recitals and playing for a few services.
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re Westminster Cathedral
I remember a concert by the RSCM Westminster Abbey Cathedral Course choir in Westminster Cathedral in August 1971 conducted by John Bertalot. The choir was in the apse for most of the concert and the choir organ was joined by the grand organ at the climax of Ireland's Greater Love. Had the organs been at different pitches it would have been, ahem, Grater Love, but I remember no discrepancy. The organs were played by two organists, I think; one of them was Simon Wright and the other possibly Michael Fleming.
Michael
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Difficult or not, this is the sort of thing I've got to do any day now! My argument (in order to raise £500,000 for the restoration of the F&A/Compton at HTH) goes along the following lines:
***detailed rationale snipped***
Good music in church quite often moves people more than the spoken word. The fact that unknown minor composers can leave us works which just simply and sincerely sung can make people cry, or haul them out of hum-drum existence is a glorious thing! Don't be embarrassed that this is part of your calling.
Well said! My point was not that we shouldn't put serious amounts of money towards church music, but that there is no inherent difference between church music and any other kind of expense from either a logical or a Christian point of view; why single out organs as underserving?
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- a new pipe organ in the price bracket £400K+
I'm not an overly religious person, but I couldn't begin to justify the cost of a new pipe organ for our local church when put in the context of global poverty and starvation.
There is no way you can justify *any* Western expenditure, whether on the armed forces, clergy salaries, hymn books, candles, cancer drugs, air-conditioning or children's toys when put in the context of global poverty and starvation.
I don't know of an organ-only arrangement, but I would have thought you could get away reasonably well with just playing the organ part and filling in the orchestral ritornelli?
A Renatus Harris Organ In London
in The Organ
Posted
To save others the time this is the relevant page of Goetze and Gwynne's site:
http://www.goetzegwynn.co.uk/restored/aldgate.shtml