John Sayer
-
Posts
421 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by John Sayer
-
-
David Liddle and Ian Hare are both former King's organ scholars. Wasn't John Bertalot, too? Daniel Hyde, now director of music at Jesus, gave a brilliant recital (Bach, Mendelssohn and Wammes) at the Klosterkirche, Steinfeld as part of the IAO congress last week.
The list for John's would include:
John Scott
Adrian Lucas
David Hill
Stephen Cleobury
David Lumsden
Brian Runnett
Jonathan Bielby
Andrew Lumsden
Andrew Nethsinga
Philip Scriven
Iain Farrington
Robert Houssart
..... and Jonathan Rennert
JS
-
Very sad to read that. Some of his organ music was difficult for a listener, but some of it amongst the best. Some nice choral music as well, his Suite liturgica is recorded on Supraphon which I find attractive. Many years ago I met him when he was at Manchester and Susan Landale gave a recital of his music - all from memory I might add.
Sad, indeed. We have more than just 'Sunday Music' to be grateful for. Some may recall a fascinating lecture on Improvisation at the ICO in Cambridge in 1987. Taking a small picture of two apples, he sat down at the piano and somehow, miraculously, brought the image to life in music. A charming and unassuming person to meet, as well.
JS
-
I am not sure of the validity of your statement (which I have quoted above). We cannot say with any certainty what the acoustic properties of (for example) St. Blasius, Mülhausen were in the time of Bach. Or, for that matter, the Church of St Wenzel, Naumburg.
I understand that St. Thomas' Church, Leipzig is not particularly resonant now (obviously I do not know what it was like in the time of Bach). However, he did travel a certain amount and was frequently asked to give his opinion on new or restored organs. In addition, he heard Buxtehude play in his own church and from old photographs, it is not unreasonable to postulate that the building was fairly resonant - on the basis that it was lofty, with a stone vault and was almost certainly not constructed of sandstone, for example.
I can think of few concert halls of today which possess a vast acoustic, regardless of their size. The Royal Albert Hall (as first constructed) is a notable exception and I think that I am correct in stating that the architect shot himself when it became clear exactly how confusing and unhelpful the acoustic was.
St Wenzel is a vast, lofty and fairly resonant church. Apart from new pews and a modern extra gallery at the west end I can't imagine it has changed much since JSB was there in 1746. The sound of the Hildebrandt organ rolls around yet reaches the listener below with remarkable clarity.
See St Wenzel and click on 'weitere Bilder'.
It's 20-odd years since I saw St Blasius, Mühlhausen, but, as I recall, it is similarly tall but fairly narrow, also with a generous acoustic.
The Thomaskirche, on the other hand, is much changed since Bach's time. The interior has been Gothicised and the upper galleries removed. The heavy pine woodwork - pews, pulpit etc - dates from the reordering of the church in the late 19c.
What strikes many visitors is the modest size of the building. It is not particularly resonant, and was presumably even less so in Bach's time when filled with a large congregation heavily wrapped up to withstand the chill of a 3 hour Kantatengottesdienst on a Sunday morning in December.
JS
-
Talking of heroic sounds... The idea of a Heroic organ - ein Helden Orgel - in a castle wall surrounded by mountains and pine forests - appeals to the Romantics in all of us - but does it work in practice? Has anyone heard the Helden Orgel at Kufstein? Is it worth a trip - as they say?
I heard the Kufstein instrument about 10 years ago and I must confess I was slightly underwhelmed. The pipework is in a round tower high up on a cliff and the sound is pretty coarse at close quarters.
The console stands about 100ft below in sort of summer house built of brick and tile. Even with all the windows open I can't imagine the organist has a true impression of what he is playing.
When I heard it, the repertoire of the short daily recitals seemed to be mainly composed of sentimental folk and soldiers' songs such as 'Ich hatte einen Kameraden' - appropriate maybe for a Heroes' Organ, but not very inspiring listening.
JS
-
Even if it is, it will still pay 2 or 3 percent to the card company.
Strictly speaking the commission is paid to the acquiring bank rather than direct to the card company. Typically it could indeed be around 2 -3 % ad valorem for credit card transactions but much less for most debit card transactions where a flat fee is charged - say 9 -10p. The annual rental charge for the PDQ terminal (or similar) has also to be factored in and the lower the turnover, the more significant this becomes.
These days cathedral shops, like any other retail outlet, have little choice but to offer electronic payment facilities. On the plus side, the funds are guaranteed and it saves them the hassle of handling cheques. Nevertheless, the benefits are almost always outweighed by the extra costs.
JS
-
The unenclosed Choir used to be at a lower level behind the console, speaking through the grilles at the front. Is this still the case?
John
That's right, but with the soundboard raised about four feet to aid sound projection.
JS
-
I wonder if I can ask about the RAH Organ layout? Is all the organ behind the case, or is some located at gallery level behind the half dozen or so black panels?
As I recall from a remarkable BIOS visit before the restoration - when Manders generously made it possible for a couple of hundred people to file through the organ - Great, Orchestral, Choir and Pedal are in the case, i.e. within the perimeter of the Hall and with the big reeds on the top level. The Swell and Solo divisions have their shutters flush with the inner wall, with the pipework behind in separate chambers (Solo left & Swell right) extending back almost to the outer wall of the Hall, i.e. above the Shop at Door 12. There is a 6ft wide corridor between the back of the organ and the window. I remember seeing the enclosed Willis (wooden) 32 reed right at the back of the Swell box.
JS
-
It is good to get another opinion. In some ways I am relieved at knowing that you found the balance perfect elsewhere in the hall and agree it was a stunning performance despite my concerns. The Ascension at the end was particularly moving and one time the organ did not dominate. I will watch where I book in future (all lower seats were sold when we booked).
I disagree with an earlier post and think the RAH is an excellent venue for big choral works despite being blasted by reeds and mixtures if you sit in the Circle!
The worst place to hear the RAH organ during the Proms, in my experience, is from the floor of the arena where it always seems to disappoint at climactic moments in big oratorios and other works where the organ really needs to make its presence felt. At such moments the orchestral canopy is as much an acoustic as a visual hindrance. The sound of the Great reeds presumably goes over the top, but for some strange reason the 32 basses also are never quite as tummy-rumblng as one would like them to be.
For solo organ recitals - and there isn't one at the Proms this year (apart from John Scott playing some late-night Buxtehude on 3 September) - they usually manage to hoist the canopy and lighting gantries up 15-20 feet and the balance is much better.
JS
-
========================
There is no doubt but that one of the great cradles of modern civilisation was the Hanseatic region, which not only included Lubeck, but also Gdansk (Danzig) in what must then have been either Pomerania or Royal Poland.....I haven't time to plough through all my Polish files.
However, if I recall correctly, the Hanseatic League crossed national borders, and worked in harmony in securing trade and shipping routes in the Baltic region. It was a co-operation which brought extraordinary wealth to a relatively small coastal area. It was also an area of quite extraordinary intellectual endeavour and achievement; artistically, scientifically and culturally. In fact, it was one of those great "hot spots" in the history of Western Civilisation.
MM
The 'relatively small coastal area' was bigger than you might think. It stretched way beyond Danzig as far east as ports such as Riga and Reval (Tallinn) where German influences are still clearly evident in the churches and general townscape. (Here, incidentally, German organbuilders still held sway until the late 19c - witness the numbers of organs by Walcker and Sauer for example). It also included cities on the other side of the Baltic such as Visby and Stockholm. Towns some distance inland were also members - Lüneburg, Frankfurt-an-der-Oder, Hildesheim, Erfurt, Münster, Brandenburg, Hanover, even Cologne, Breslau and Cracow. There were outstations, too, as far away as London, Novgorod in Russia and Bergen in Norway.
There is no doubting the cultural and artistic achievements of the region. Rostock, for example, has the oldest university in Northern Europe.
The interesting thing, however, is that the League was already in decline by Buxtehude's time having reached its peak of influence and prosperity a couple of centuries earlier. The League name lived on in name only until 1806 when it was finally expunged by Napoleon.
JS
-
The Germans on our sister-site Orgelforum seem to find this "sehr witzig"
JS
-
Why would anyone wish to have a winding system that de-tuned the pipes? Surely, everyone works towards rock steadiness of wind.
Barry Williams
It depends, surely, on the instrument in question. Rock steadiness may be a virtue on a large cathedral organ, but on a smaller instrument a lively or living wind-supply can often make the sound so much more interesting.
As for the extreme case of de-tuning, has anyone come across the 'Winddrossel' or wind throttle found on a number of modern German organs? It usually consists of a lever at the console which gradually shuts off the wind supply to the pipes. I can think of one piece where the player is instructed to turn off the blower and continue playing (this obviously only works with mechanical action) but I can't think of any musical use for the device just described.
Perhaps one of our German 'Orgelforer' can enlighten us.
JS
-
Could I make a fresh (and polite) plea for a little more effort in keeping to the subject of individual threads? All too often these become a veritable ragbag of topics as people start to go off at a tangent with new ideas after only a handful of postings.
All too often an interesting thread becomes lost. For example, I've just discovered - quite by chance - a very worthwhile recent debate on Mendelssohn being conducted in two places.
We're all busy people, I know, with little time for such tidy-mindedness. The answer surely is to start a new topic - preferably with some sort of cross-reference - if you want to introduce new material in the course of a reply to an existing topic.
End of homily ....
JS
-
This is another problem.....
Mr Allcoat's comment go in the very same direction as the datas I could gather
about the organs Mendelssohn played in Leipzig: just between Silbermann and Ladegast,
also far away from "fully romantic" ones.
Some later organs, like Schulze or Furtwängler, do well, but it is precisely because
they are conservative, still with baroque-like choruses.
Pierre
I'm sure it would be well worth finding out more about the organs played by M-B around the time of his organ compositions. The only documented instance I know of is a public recital at the Thomaskirche, Leipzig in 1840 to raise funds for a Bach memorial. Does anyone know of any schlarly research into organs of the 'in-between' period referred to by Pierre Lauwers?
The 3 P&Fs date from 1837 when M-B was based in Leipzig. One theory I have heard is that he was accustomed to playing the organ in village churches on excursions into the surrounding countryside. If so, these are likely to have been fairly modest 2m instruments, perhaps by Gottfried Silbermann himself (e.g. Marienkirche, Rötha IIP/23, only 15 km away) or else by local builders influenced by him.
J F Ladegast's Opus 1 dates from 1838. Until Merseburg Cathedral (Opus 23) in 1855 all his organs were modest affairs of 1 or 2 manuals and no more than a couple of dozen stops and designed very much in the traditional Saxon/Thuringian style.
J F Schulze set up on his own account as an organbuilder in 1826. He is known to have built a number of rather larger instruments in the same part of Germany: perhaps some of these were known to M-B. (The Armley organ, of course, did not begin life until 1866).
The 6 Sonatas were written in 1844/5, by which time M-B had moved back to Berlin and had travelled widely abroad, including to England, where he is known to have played the organ at St Paul's Cathedral after evensong on several occasions.
It's worth noting that many of M-B's organ compositions, including the P&Fs and Sonatas, were the result of English commissions and that they were published both here and in Germany. However, it is unlikely that they were playable - at least, as written - on more than a handful of English organs at that time.
Maybe the simple answer is that M-B composed them as 'pure music' with no particular instrument in mind.
Margaret Phillips has recorded the complete works on two historically preserved/reconstructed organs from the 1830s, though both from a different region of Germany (Westphalia & Baden-Württemburg). Nevertheless the music sounds pretty convincing.
As for the opening of Sonata 3, we know it was first conceived form his sister, Fanny's wedding, so parhaps we may be forgiven the odd burst of Tuba at bar 7 .... Perhaps some enterprising soul would like to discover where the ceremony took place, what the organ was like and hence what it must have first sounded like.
JS
-
I know that, in organs terms, it refers to horizontal pipes, but since my French is less than fluent I'm wondering why such ranks are called "en chamade". What exactly is the concept imparted by these words? My French dictionary gives the following meanings for "chamade": "(battre la chamade), to sound a parley, to surrender"; and "(heart) to beat wildly". I'm having a bit of difficulty relating this to organ pipes. Is there another meaning?
I'm pretty sure the etymological trail leads back to Lat. clamare, to shout, proclaim.
JS
-
A Drake/Aubertin collaboration would be interesting!
AJJ
Maybe not as far-fetched as it sounds! I know of at least one Drake organ which contains a reed stop made by Aubertin.
These two distinguished builders have known one another for years and have regularly visited one anothers' workshops. I had the privilege of joining them both at Courtefontaine last month with a group of organists from Oxford to see work in progress on the new organ for St John's College.
JS
-
I believe it was Peterborough. And Durham also seems to spring to mind as well, although I remember the wind and cold there more than the heat.
N
Weren't these wondeful contraptions called Gurney's Patent Heating Furnace or something like that? They had ornate cast-iron crowns on top. At Ely they used to glow in the dark during November evensongs. Today they're oil-fired, but 20-odd years ago the verger used to go round with a little coal trolley and stoke them up beforehand.
JS
-
If the appointee does not meet the original job spec (and I have no idea whether he does or does not), then I would have thought those who do and have been passed over might have a case against the cathedral if they are so inclined - not that I suppose they are. My very rudimentary understanding of employment law is that one is legally obliged to appoint the person most suited to the job and I would have thought that changing the job requirements in mid-process would leave one potentially open to action. Or is the church immune from this?
Rumour has it that one, possibly two, of the 'qualified' cathedral organists who applied subsequently withdrew their applications.
JS
-
On the Cathedral's website:
http://www.stpauls.co.uk/page.aspx?theLang...qfY9J9153Zh4XPd
Quite amusing that the advertisement for the post stated criteria such as organist of distinction and an improviser of note. Mr Carwood appears to be neither of these. Not exactly recruitment best practice !
Maybe not, but maybe also the D&C should be congratulated on extending their search beyond the immediate confines of the job spec in the hope of finding the best person for the post of DoM. And, as David Coram says above, there is no shortage of talented organists at St Paul's.
The main thing, surely, is that there should be one professional in overall executive charge of the music; whether he/she is a singer or player - especially in a large and prestigious choral foundation like St Paul's - doesn't really matter. The main thing is that he/she can do the job and command the respect of colleagues.
JS
-
The oddest rank of this ilk I've come across is the Terz 12 4/5 at Schwerin Cathedral. It certainly adds some sort of 64ft subterranean rumble when drawn with full pedal. Apparently Ladegast included it after consultation with Prof. Töpfer, one of the leading 19c theorists in organ tone.
JS
-
Regarding Rostock, I just want to say, that this forum will heartily be invited to take part in the discussion which this instrument really needs. Don't want to tell too much right now, but I think it's going to be a thrilling challenge. More about it in summer, when I'm really on duty there...!
I was able to hear and play the Marienkirche organ on a visit to Rostock shortly after re-unification in the early 1990s. The original 32ft case of 1769 by Paul Schmidt filling the entire western arch and incorporating the ducal throne is quite stunning.
A far-reaching rebuild of the instrument was undertaken in 1938 with Prof Fritz Heitmann of Berlin Cathedral as consultant. The organ is of similar date, size and significance to the 'Coronation Organ' in Westminster Abbey. The tonal ideals of Sauer and Arthur Harrison make for fascinating comparison.
The question of 'Wohin' (Where next?) for the Rostock organ is indeed eagerly awaited.
JS
-
Well said - I agree entirely. A good, well-prepared performance done with honesty and conviction can be spiritually uplifting. The Cathedral Choir here in Ripon did it (with orchestra) on Palm Sunday with similar attendance and appreciation.
However, I must admit to being somewhat lukewarm about Rutter's slightly leaden and predictable orchestration - all those slightly 'oily' woodwind solos soon pall. Given an imaginative player and a resourceful instrument I think I prefer the original organ accompaniment. And the hymns need organ reinforcement anyway.
But chacun a son goût, I suppose.
JS
Before I'm pursued on a libel charge, I meant of course Barry Rose rather than John Rutter. I obviously don't know my R's from my *****.
JS
-
Yes, I believe we had that joke less than a week ago on another thread.
I'd like to stick up for the Stainer - of its type, it has much excellent material. There are some extraordinary moments in it as well as a lot of less good stuff. In an era where there was a clear need for something of quality which could be performed by local forces, it would have been quite a revelation. I would rather hear a well-done Crucifixion than a naff St Matthew Passion.
One of the local choirs I do for does an annual Good Friday Crucifixion, and takes itself (a 50-strong very very good choral society) off to parish churches in the diocese and brings something to the Holy Week activities in these places, with soloists taken from the Cathedral lay clerks. It's always full to bursting. People are profoundly moved by having something sung well in their own church. In 2006 we did it in Salisbury Cathedral with orchestra, and the place was absolutely packed, transepts and all, to the point of standing room only at the back. That is no mean achievement.
It might be over-the-top and risible in places, but it does have some profoundly moving moments and people want to hear it done well. Take that last sentence and apply it to other music - much of Karl Jenkins, Andrew Lloyd Webber musicals, some Rutter anthems and larger works, to take three fairly random examples - and you might be surprised how well it fits.
Well said - I agree entirely. A good, well-prepared performance done with honesty and conviction can be spiritually uplifting. The Cathedral Choir here in Ripon did it (with orchestra) on Palm Sunday with similar attendance and appreciation.
However, I must admit to being somewhat lukewarm about Rutter's slightly leaden and predictable orchestration - all those slightly 'oily' woodwind solos soon pall. Given an imaginative player and a resourceful instrument I think I prefer the original organ accompaniment. And the hymns need organ reinforcement anyway.
But chacun a son goût, I suppose.
JS
-
I had also heard that it was Walkers. However, I think they did more than that as it is now possible to see pipes against the wall behind the organ on the LHS. (Is this new full length 32 reed resonators?). The tale I heard was that it was not until Dame Gillian Weir complained about the heavy action that Pennells from Walkers were approached. I think that Peter Collins originally had the design of the action checked over by a mechanical engineer to ensure that it was OK.
PJW
I think I'm right in saying the original architectural drawings supplied to the organbuilder understated the height of the ceiling above the organ, which why is the lower notes of the 32ft reed were made with half-length resonators.
JS
-
Those who have been following Barry Jordan's account of the new Schuke organ in the Magdeburger Dom may be interested to learn that the same firm has just started installing a new instrument of similar size in the cathedral in Kaliningrad, formerly Königsberg, capital of East Prussia.
The Kaliningrad region is today a Russian exclave, cut off from the rest of the Federation by surrounding Poland and Lithuania. The Dom, in typical Hanseatic red-brick gothic, was reduced to a ruin following British bombing and Russian bombardment at the end of WWII. After decades of difficult and protracted restoration, much of it funded by (West) German money, the building new serves mainly as a state-owned cultural centre, though incorporating both Lutheran and Orthodox chapels.
The Schuke firm have already installed a Choir organ of about 30 stops, with a 4-manual console from which the new instrument on the west gallery will also be playable. The full specification has yet to be announced but is expected to be around 120 stops and 11,000 pipes, making it the largest instrument in Russia. The magnificent early 18c. case is being reconstructed with the aid of pre-war photographs.
Perhaps the most interesting fact about the new organ is that much of the cost is reported to be provided personally by President Putin, whose wife, Ludmilla, comes from the Kaliningradskaja Oblast. It is possible that Putin acquired an appreciation for organ music during his years as KGB Chief in Dresden during the GDR era.
The new organ should be finished by Christmas. I plan to pay a visit in the autumn and hope to be in a position to report on progress.
JS
Transcriptions
in The Organ
Posted
I remember years ago seeing a German publisher's advertisement (Bärenreiter, or maybe Breitkopf) for an organ transcription of Johann Strauß's Blue Danube for organ duet, pedals only.
It sound great fun, and I wish I'd ordered it at the time.
Has anyone else come acroos it by an chance?
JS