GrossGeigen
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Posts posted by GrossGeigen
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Can anyone shed some light on two particular organs in Greater Manchester, the first being the extraordinary 1930's-built HNB in the Champness Hall, Rochdale. It had been recorded perhaps just once, by George Blackmore, and I possess a copy of two pieces he played there that were broadcast on Radio 2 by Nigel Ogden some time ago. I gather that the recording was made back in the 80's, and the organ was really a smaller version of the monster at Holbrook! Has anyone ever played it? It sadly fell into decline many years ago, and has now been disposed of (with Jardine's taking the good material?). The spec on NPOR makes interesting reading, complete with tuned percussions, and in a 1000-seat auditorium. The building had been the Methodist Central Hall for the town, and hosted many fine concerts, including the Halle. One of our local association members played it regularly for some years, and he greatly regrets its demise.
The second organ is the apparent wreck sitting forlornly in the Great Hall of Manchester Town Hall. Is there any likelihood that this instrument will ever be rebuilt? I feel is a great pity that England's 'third' city has not kept pace with London and Birmingham in retaining a major concert-organ. I am not among those who consider that the Marcussen at the Bridgewater comes anywhere close to that accolade, and tantalising glimpses of the Great Hall on TV only serve to remind us that it is there.
Alright, it's a much-modified and extended job, with possibly little left of its original Cavaille-Coll character, but would it be beyond modern skills and knowledge to at least get it back to something worthwhile? It must have been wonderful in its day! I suspect it is simply another case of finances outweighing importance that nothing has been done to preserve it for many years.
Members might be interested to learn that the magnificent Binns at Rochdale Town Hall will reach its centenary in 2013, and plans are in place to celebrate this milestone with recitals and a special publication of works commissioned for the event.
CP
I'm fairly certain that the Champness Hall organ remains in situ, and "available", as I recall seeing details on the IBO redundant instrument listings recently.
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It is but a short step from the largest number of organs in x years to the most rebuilt. A friend recently told me of Mansfield Chapel, in Edinburgh see www.mansfieldtraquair.co.uk. It is a Catholic Apolstolic church with superb murals by Phoebe Anna Traquair, it had been turned into a depository but has been saved by becoming a resource centre which can be hired out for weddings, meetings, etc. It is a fine building but the Arts & Crafts murals by the above lady are what one most goes to see. And there is an intriguing structure which looks like a private pew or box high up on the S wall which was the organ case. As to the organ; no details on NPOR but from my very short form book of 1991 (if I can interpret the codes) :
Originally an 1837 Walker 2 man from former church moved into here in 1876 by ?. This was when the church was consecrated.
Hamilton of Edinburgh removed it in 1884 to Leith St John’s East.
1884 James Conacher of Sheffield built a 2 man,
overhauled in 1886 Henry Wellby and Sons Edinburgh,
overhauled 1888 Wellby,
overhauled 1891 Wellby,
rebuilt 1895 Wellby,
rebuilt 1907 Arthur E Ingram Edinburgh, as 3 man 39 stops + 2 prepared,
scrapped c1976 Frederick F Bell Edinburgh.
I expect it ended up a heap of junk. As some may know, I believe that a large number of organs in Scotland deserve a match under them as they are so poor. There are a few exceptions.
PJW
Interesting to know about this large number of poor organs in Scotland. James Conacher had no connection with the city of Sheffield, by the way. He dissolved his partnership with brother Peter about 1879 (with ensuing court case "Conacher versus Conacher") and set up his workshop barely quarter of a mile from Springwood organ works.
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Last year I was offered the choir organ section from the organ at Prinknash Abbey; the monks were down-sizing from the enormous modern abbey buildings built in the sixties back to the exquisite mediaeval house they occupied when they first came to Gloucestershire and they no longer had any need for the organ. This was the organ built by Father Charles Watson and known as ‘the plainsong organ’, later the choir division of the three manual instrument in the ‘big abbey’ chapel. In its original form it consisted of five ranks of pipework on an old slider and pallet soundboard fitted with a modern suspended action, a new oak case (made by the Abbey carpenter) and reverse colour playing keys. In 1995 (pace NPOR) it was incorporated into the larger organ and when I first saw it the mechanical action had been replaced by large lever arm magnets mounted on the old roller board working directly on the pallets of the old soundboard, the console still in-situ, and now played from the three manual console of the main organ.
I wonder if anyone can remember from where the various parts of this instrument came? NPOR cites ‘Horace Clarke 1930’ – who was he? ‘Classical Organ in Britain’ states that it was assembled in 1970. The old soundboard is of rather unusual construction, with the mahogany table made in sections to match the upper boards, sitting on felt gaskets and screwed to the bars rather than glued; it would be very easy to repair in situ and I wonder why all builders didn’t do this (too expensive I suppose). The Salicional is an old Peter Conacher TC stop in spotted metal: the paper label on the C pipe identifies it as from Job No 1044 (Mr Wyld, do you have this in your records?). The 8ft Gedackt is an old and very solid affair in varnished pitch pine and the 4ft flute is also an old wooden stop with the cut-up lowered. The 4ft principal looks practically new, in spotted metal with low cut up and very little nicking as does the 2ft, a tapered rank perplexing stamped ‘Flute’. The BOB blower is well documented on a label inside and was made in 1970.
I am currently rebuilding this instrument as a house organ on a new direct electric chest, so if anyone wants 56 K-A heavy duty pallet magnets and five KA electric stop motors they are free to anyone who wants to collect them from Hereford. Just email me at stewart.m.taylor@btinternet.com.
Conacher's job number 1044 was a three manual instrument, supplied in 1898 for Trinity Wesleyan Chapel in the Fartown district of Huddersfield.
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My words, this takes me back!
I well recall some brilliant recitals at St.Paul's Concert Hall, including a Bach recital (I think) by Piet Kee, (then at Haarlem), and Nick Kynaston, who I think played Reger among other things.
To be absolutely honest, I don't think Nigel would have been over-impressed by the organ after it was first built. The voicing was carried out by Booths' of Leeds, or perhaps John (?) Booth, and at the time, few people really understood neo-classic design and voicing. The Mixtures stood apart, the reeds of the pedal were a bit wooly, the Great didn't quite gel as an entity, and the Positive was a bit of a screaming department.
I recall another new organ by Philip Wood, (who tried very hard to get to grips with the new baroque style), and it was so "open foot," it was probably possible to accompany 500 on just the Great Gedact.
At the time, Philip Wood had only just started to venture into larger instruments, and I suspect that almost everything at Huddersfield was bought in from outside, and assembled on site.
When the organ was tonally changed, all the defects were made good, and what emerged was quite splendid. It was after this that Jonathan Bielby made a recording of the organ, which I have in my vinyl collection.
A few tonal tweaks later, and this instrument is now quite capable of standing apart from most, with a character all its own.
I'm really surprised that no-one has made a modern digital recording of this instrument on CD, because it is far better than a lot of others. In fact, with the Willis at the Town Hall, the new Slovenian built instrument at St.Patrick's RC and St Paul's concert hall, Huddersfield is now quite an important centre for organs and organ-music.
Interestingly, I can actually go back beyond the Concert Hall era, when St Paul's was....well....St.Paul's.
Always belssed with a superb acoustic, the church had a splendid Abbott & Smith organ of romantic character, but like others from the period, it suffered from a precarious and unreliable pneumatic action in the latter years. Still, it had some of the most beautiful orchestral reeds and mild strings I have ever heard, but as with all things deeply unfashionable, it was scrapped in favour of the new instrument.
So it was all with rather mixed emotions when the new Wood organ came into being, and the general concensus at the time was that the old organ was better. I can now say with some certainty, that the new organ is more than a match for the old, but in a very different style.
Still, it's a shame that what was very good had to be broken up and discarded.
MM
Just to clear this up a little. The metal pipework for this instrument was manufactured by F J Rogers in Bramley, the fluework being voiced by Norman Fitton. The reedwork was voiced by the late, gifted, Stephen Buckle.
The 32ft reed, always prepared for, was installed in 1986, the mahogany resonators being made at Woods' former St. Andrew's Road workshop.
Being too young to know the previous Abbott & Smith organ, MM's recollections are all the more interesting as everyone else who recalls the instrument speaks in equally approving terms. The fine Swell Fagotto rank can still be heard in St. Thomas's church in the same town (a fine Gilbert Scott building where, incidentally, A L Peace was appointed as organist aged fifteen).
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An interesting discussion today about hymns between Ann Harrison of the RSCM and Timothy Dudley-Smith. The question was about whether "traditional" hymns were still being sritten. TD-S cited what he thought two good modern hymns: Be Still for the Presence of the Lord" (which I agree is a fine piece) but then lost a bit of credibility when he cited Kendrick's "From heaven you came" aka The Servant King - in my opinion one of the most atrocious pieces of word setting in the last 30 years.
It is worth doing a listen again if you missed it.
Peter
John Scott Whiteley took a refreshing and uncompromising musical approach to "The Servant King" at the most recent Archbishop's Enthronement. The basic premise seemed to be "100% re-harmonisation" of the accompaniment.
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The organ was restored by Micheal Mcdonald of glasgow in september 2007. Its currently being used a few times a year for concerts.
The plasticine and chatterton compound repairs to certain reed basses were carefully preserved.......
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As this topic has re-appeared after 12 months I just thought I'd mention, for anyone interested in organs north of the border, that the Crichton and St. John's have appeared at last on NPOR with some photos.
DT
It's good to see these updated. Perhaps for Tony Newnham's benefit (as I'm now unsure of the process of sending corrections to NPOR), at ST. JOHN'S, the bass octave of the new Nave Open Diapason is from the Great Small Open Diapason (this latter stop came from the Balliol College instrument which had been rebuilt by H & H in 1937, and is wholly on a chest) and the Swell Oboe is now back at 8ft pitch.
At CRICHTON (I'm sure DT enjoys his trips there) the Swell Mixture is three ranks, 15:19:22, the "2" on the drawstop relating to the pitch of the lowest rank at CC.
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I certainly wouldn't describe the Lincoln sound in the nave as 'ugly' although it makes little impression down there, but agree with AJJ that it sounds fantastic in the choir.
However, the acoustics in the choir are little dry, which makes the Swell up in the triforium sound rather cold and separate from the rest of the organ.
The best sound by far is heard under the tower.
The legend goes that Dr George Bennett (organist 1895 to 1930) requested of the new organ that he should be able to use full organ when accompanying the choir. Well, that's what he got but who know whether that was Willis's intention?
As subsequent posts have discussed Francis Jackson and the York great reeds, I have it on good authority that FJ considers the 3 great reeds at Lincoln to be the finest in any British Cathedral organ, and I agree with him.
At York the Contra Tromba and Tromba were high pressure ranks, whilst the Trumpet and Clarion were low pressure ranks on one of the great flue chests. In 1960 Walkers revoiced the 2 Trombas as Posaunes (still on high relatively pressure) and put them on pallet magnet chests to make them also available on the choir manual. The Trumpet and Clarion were left untouched. As part of Geoffrey Coffin's rebuild a new 4 slider chest was created to house all 4 great reeds on high pressure as the Trumpet and Clarion were considered to be ineffectual.
DT
I don't imagine it's too surprising that Lincoln (and York - apart from one obvious rank) don't "make it" too effectively down their respective naves, in view of the "parasitic" drawing off of tone by their vast lantern towers.
The "ugly" observation is, I believe, a reference to the casework. I don't believe the case is without a certain elegance, and the Willis alterations in 1898 appear to me to have been beneficial to the overall proportions of the casework - just my opinion, of course.
As for the Great reeds at York, my understanding is that the 1903/4 Walker 16 & 8 Posaunes survive, at least materially, on 7-inch wind ( there used to be a warning on the "do's and dont's" list for visiting organists as to how much more powerful they were away from the console). The 1903/4 Trumpet and Clarion were converted to 12-inch Trombas in 1916, and subsequently pumped up to 15 inches in 1931.
I'm aware of the 1960 work, but recall (with alarm, it has to be said) reading Geoffrey Coffin's account of his 1993 work in which he stated that all the manual reeds had been re-tounged.
Is it just me, but does the famous Tuba (described by Mr. Bicknell as "grotesque") sound very unevenly regulated in the recent York dvd?
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Paul Hale, in his latest contribution to Organists' Review (St. Etheldreda's Church, Ely Place, London) asserts that J. F. Bentley, architect of Westminster Cathedral, "regularly worked with the organbuilder T. C. Lewis, most notably at Westminster Cathedral in the first decade of the twentieth century, where they installed a twin-cased Apse Organ..."
I know that "old man" T. C. Lewis was still, shall we say, "dabbling" in Organ building in 1910 ( a good decade or so after his association with Lewis & Co Ltd effectively ceased) but is there ANYONE who can confirm who built the Apse Organ, Thomas Christopher Lewis himself, OR, Lewis & Co Ltd ??
If the organ was built by Lewis & Co Ltd, the job number should be plentifully teeped here & there within the instrument, even allowing for the (regrettable?) 1984 alterations. A 1910 Lewis & Co that I know well is, for example, job no 828.
Furthermore, Paul Hale describes the Apse Organ as having a "strange" stoplist - I have never heard anything other than complimentary remarks regarding the "effect" of this stoplist.
Any information appreciated !
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It has to be Salisbury really - no comparison!
Richard
Acoustics aside, the c.1867 Willis "Grand Tuba" at Huddersfield Town Hall would, in my view, give any other Tuba a good run for its money.
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Possibly also the Colston Hall?
AJJ
Or after some quick research (and not being able to deleate the above) - perhaps not!!!
The 1980/81 console at Huddersfield Town Hall has curved jambs. Alas, it doesn't look as though the "Borough Organist" post, so successfully filled by Gordon Stewart there for many years, is to be continued. Shame.
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I've yet to hear a better "advertisement" for a (in this case Swell) Vox Humana (and a sypathetically-adjusted "Tremolo") than Colin Walsh's two landmark (in my view!!) recordings at Salisbury for Priory on the early 1980's. CW clearly relishes its deployment in the Langlais' "Breve" and "Medievale" Suites, and the Tournemire "Ave maris stella" and "Victimae Paschali" improvisations. I have seen a couple of "Father" Willis organs possessing a Swell Vox Humana, sitting in a rack-board that has actually been "pricked out" for a three-rank mixture.
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Lady Susi Jeans had a small neo baroque organ in her study at Cleveland Lodge, Boxhill, that was installed in the 1930s.
As a school boy I cheekily invited myself to see it on the pretext that it was only about 14 miles walk from our school's summer camp... She most kindly allowed my visit and showed me the organ (but didn't play it) and said I could play on the larger organ that belonged to Sir James in her concert room.
Twenty or so years later I went to several of the Boxhill Festival meetings/concerts held at Cleveland Lodge - where her colleagues, students, and musicologist friends made interesting presentations and recitals. But the small organ was never played.
I wondered if anyone ever head it and what it sounded like? Why wasn't it used? What has happened to it now? I understand that the RSCM is no longer at Cleveland Lodge, and the house is to be or is being converted for residential use.
It is currently being prepared by Nicholsons for installation at the Birmingham Conservatoire.
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If you visit the Klais website you will see that they are building a new 'salon' organ for a residence in Scotland. The article shows the organ containers being flown in by helicopter as road access is difficult. Anyone know about this organ - a stoplist would be interesting?
Hector
This is a small three-manual, with an intriguing specification ( of which I have a copy somewhere) comprising 16 or 17 stops. A friend of mine visited the Klais works two years ago, and was told that the client had asked for no publicity about the instrument. Perhaps there will be more publicity after all.
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An amusing idea Lee, especially if some of the fiestier charachters from the organ world were put in there (SP/JPS etc) possibly with former dean and chapters of westminster? Put martin neary in as well and could be riotous!
Add to this Henry Willis IV, Peter Collins, Bruce Buchanan, and perhaps Kenneth Jones. Then some regular contributors to this forum: MM, Cynic, FF from darkest North Hampshire, and, of course, Mr. Blick himself. A practice organ would be needed (perhaps a Lammermuir) but some of the "tasks" would involve revoicing of certain ranks (eg. in the style of Cooper, Gill & Tomkins). I'm certain I would watch.
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Getting back to part of Colin's original question. Does anybody know who looks after the instument these days.
J.S.
Harrison & Harrison look after it. There was an interesting write-up of this instrument in "The Organ", probably by Gilbert Benham in the late 1930's. There's a good photo of the then Hill console with a small keyboard below the bass stop-jamb for the carillon. I believe it was a fairly modest four-decker to begin with, despite the the CCCC 32-ft front. There was a subsequent write-up in "The Organ" after the R&D work.
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Oh no, we're back to puddings again! But the lack of a 16' reed is a good point. St Albans will be adding one to the GO in the upcoming revisions. Clearly the gap needs filling and I wonder if the same applies here? Problems of space? The horizontal approach may solve this, but even pcnd would draw the line here?
St. Albans already has a 16ft Great reed (since 1962) - 8 & 4 ft reeds are being supplied in the forthcoming scheme of work.
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I believe that it was mooted to install a new nave organ in York Minster to supplement the screen organ. This would appear to be the only practical solution to the problem of accompanying nave services.
Has anyone heard any more of this?
John
I imagine Geoffrey Coffin is longing for that 'phone call. Perhaps they might acquire a redundant instrument for the nave (can't help thinking about the ex-Manningham Hill that has been taken) as Southwell did.
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As a born and bred Yorkshireman, I of course adore York Minster, but as Richard will have rapidly discovered, it is something of an acoustic nightmare West of the choir-screen. I suspect that the problem is not just the vast area of the central-tower space, it is further aggravated by the sheer width and hieght of the nave.
I would hazard a guess, that even a baroque organ with a tone-cabinet directing the sound into the nave, would not be a lot better in terms of clarity. In fact, York is possibly the nbearest thing to the sort of acoustic found in Spain, such as at Seville.
That said, the combination of choir and organ East of the screen is superb, as Richard points out.
I always have empathy for the organist at the Carol Service, in which the big Tuba tends to play slightly more than a quick celebrity cameo role, due to the fact that it's the only thing which can be used for crowd-control.
But it's a gorgeous place with a fine choir, and an organ which is wonderfully subtle when it comes to accompaniment.
MM
It just leaves you scratching your head all the more at the decision to sell the 1863 Hill from the Nave at the time of the tonally "surpressive" Walker rebuild of the screen organ in 1903/4. I understand the theory was that, with the console moved to the south side of the screen, any player could get a decent view down the nave and accompany from the main organ. Only last year I heard that this Hill still sounds magnificent in its home for the last hundred or so years at Radcliffe - depite being "nobbled" mechanically in more recent times.
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This was not readily apparent to me from your original quote:
'Worship is far more effective when it's a team effort rather than a "one-man-band".'
I must confess that I have never thought of someone who is either operating a lighting rig or managing a sound desk as leading the worship. I should have thought that this description is quite reasonably reserved for those who either play instruments or sing - in whatever style.
Clearly our two churches are poles apart.
I agree with your points, John. I confess that I am not remotely attracted to the type of church in which speaker stacks, a small rock band, lighting rigs, mixer desks, t.v. monitors and overhead projectors form a regular part of the chancel equipment.
Aside form the visual distraction and irritation, I am not remotely convinced that this is necessary in order either to worship God or to attract large congregations.
I know a number of churches (and it is growing) that match this description - and it amazes me that in all these places there has never been a problem finding the money to pay for this "essential" equipment. In most of these places the pipe organ has been kept and is used for one hymn as a token gesture "to keep the old traditionalists happy". These churches now actually pride themselves on this gadgetry in a way that perhaps only a few decades ago they might have been proud of the organ, carving, stained glass etc that had been passed down to them. Finally, woe betide anything goes wrong with the organ as there is "miraculously" no money to do anything about it.
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The old Hill was advertised on ebay two or three years ago with a starting price of £30K - it attracted no bids. NPOR records that it was removed in 2004 and replaced with an electronic.
The new toaster boasts "Hill voicing".............
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That is wonderful news indeed! Thanks for the information Tony.
Now we must turn our efforts towards St.Mary's (RC), East Parade, Bradford, where masses are set to discontinue "in the near future" according to a press release form the Leeds RC Diocese.
This may be a little premature as the organ is still presumably in use, but there is a potential tragedy unfolding here.
St.Mary's was the original site of a large Belgian Annessens instrument, as I have mentioned before. Opened by Jaques Lemmens, that particular instrument had a 5-manual console, but I'm not quite sure what the 5th manual did. Using the Schmoele & Mol patent electric action, the organ proved unreliable and the metalurgical properties of the metal pipes less than robust. Although various attempts were made to improve the original instrument with pneumatic-action (Binns I believe), the very soft nature of the pipework was to be its undoing and the organ was effectively scrapped.
At the same time, a decent instrument became available from the Methodist Church, Heckmondwike, originally built by Henry Booth of Otley (not to be confused with Henry Booth of Leeds). Booth of Otley was the heir and successor to Joseph Booth of Wakefield, and they survived in Otley only a few years before eventually going out of business for whatever reason.
However, Henry Booth was the OTHER organ-builder who worked with the great Edmund Schulze; Charles Brindley being the first at Doncaster. Together, they did work at Charterhouse School, and when this organ was eventually sold, some of the pipework ended up in Marylebone, London. (What a mistake THAT was on the part of the school!)
They also collaborated on another organ, at Bingley Methodist Church, which I recall well. Fortunately, when the chapel closed, the then organist Dr.Gilbert Freeman put a great deal of effort into saving the instrument, which resulted in it being re-installed elsewhere.
Consequently, Henry Booth was greatly influenced by Schulze, and yet, so few of his organs remain.
St.Mary's RC Bradford is a large three-manual instrument, based on the Booth organ from Heckmondwike, and speaking into a vast acoustic. In some ways, it is not quite loud enough for what is an enormous church, but in the chancel, it is a glorious sound indeed. Sadly, it was entirely down to the generosity and devotion of a former organist (now deceased) that this organ has survived at all, and extensive work had continued until recent days, paid for by the rather weathy aforementioned gentleman, Mr Paul Hanson. Although originally installed by Wood, Wordsworth & Co Ltd of Leeds, and enlarged (complete with a Tuba!), the ongoing work has been done by John T Jackson, and the last time I played this instrument in 2001, it was sounding and playing well.
Hopefully, I shall be able to make a good recording of this organ before the church finally closes its doors.
However, the comment about Leeds RC Cathedral set me thinking. Leeds Cathedral has a huge acoustic and a rather sadly redundant Norman & Beard organ (with a Compton Tuba which came from the Davies Theatre in Croydon!). The building is about HALF the size of St.Mary's, Bradford, and absolutely perfect for the splendid Henry Booth organ. The fact that so much work has been done to the Bradford organ makes it an attractive proposition for any would-be buyer.
This is an important instrument, and one hopes that a suitable home could be found for it within our shores. It would be a great pity if this, like many others organs, found its way to Poland as some have done already.
Maybe Poland is the place to be! After all, Zych organ-builders (Poland) have either just finished, or are in the process of building a SIX manual instrument!
Poor little Poland!
MM
This might have you laughing like the Cadbury Smash robots, MM, but I did hear that the Leeds R.C. N&B was to be actually incorporated into an otherwise new Klais. The Bath Abbey approach.
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Hi
The info on NPOR is reasonably up to date - I did a big update a couple of years ago. IIRC the previous centre space console (2m) is stored somewhere in the Cathedral.
Every Blessing
Tony
Thanks for this, but the console you refer to was installed in the mid-1960's. I'm actually referring to the 1940 5-manual console, on which the drawstops for various prepared-for (and ultimately unrealised) divisions were provided. It may have been removed in the late 1970's, but under what circumstances I don't know. Thanks again for your trouble.
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After the first work (Hebrides Overture trans. Goss-Custard/Tracey) some began to applaud and a loud, pompous shout of "NOOOOOOOOOO" came from behind me.
That ruined the atmosphere more than the clapping did.
I can only assume, since the Prof. gave the recital "on the newly refurbished Choir Console" (i.e. the one up in the air) that it was felt more appropriate to take applause from such a lofty position at the end rather than throughout.
Anybody any idea what became of the 1940 Central Space console?
Smallest five-manual ever?
in The Organ
Posted
I suppose it depends on the number of pipes versus the number of stops argument. Wakefield, despite the straight Swell and Choir departments, contains less than three thousand pipes - I'm sure Manchester TH has a substantially greater number of pipes.