GrossGeigen
-
Posts
101 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by GrossGeigen
-
-
This is going to sound very cynical indeed:
I can't see Prof DT going for a British firm.
Hope I'm wrong.
What previous experience in the field of designing cathedral organs will the Professor be drawing upon?
-
Greetings,
When examining the specifications for new instruments here in the U.S. it seems as if more often than not, there are component ranks for the Cornet voice on even the smallest of organs (such as 9 ranks), or even multiple Cornet voices on 2 and 3 manual instruments.
I admit right now that I am not in the least bit attracted to the Cornet sound, but I still would like to know why these stops are so important that they appear in the vast majority of American instruments built within the last 40-50 years?
I can't tell you how many small 19th century trackers in Connecticut have had their Strings, Flutes, and Dulcianas removed, or even cut down for the want of a snarling (and to my mind useless - particularly if there's an Hautbois available) Cornet!
Isn't there anything better that can be done with those toe boards, or the money?
Best,
Nathan
As one who has regrettably never heard this instrument, is there any reader out there who has played Southwark Cathedral and can describe the tonality and effect of the Cornet III-V on the Great there? Is it a solo and/or chorus register?
-
Fellow cat loving organists/organbuilders might be interested to know of two moggies immortalised in a London pipe organ.
The late Stephen Ridgley-Whithouse's cats influenced the names of two Solo organ stops at St. Peter's Eaton Square namely the Tibia Sylvestris and the Viola Felix - you guessed it - Felix and Sylvester!! The organ (built by Ken Jones in 1992/93 and now undergoing a staged process of re-engineering and refinishing by Trevor Crowe) is well worth seeing and playing, and not just for these two stops.
David
PS - the Tibia is actually a Spitz Flute, and a nice one at that!
Anybody know more about this "staged process of re-engineering and refinishing" - seems surprising after 13/14 years?
-
After Peter's enquiry about cello and organ got some useful leads I thought I might try one of my own. I am trying to compile a fairly exhaustive library of music for soprano and organ - not arias from Bach and Handel and the like, with the accpt transcribed and played on the organ, but stuff that is originally scored for the combination in question. So far the search reveals (in no particular order of obscurity) - Gorecki, Gavin Bryars, Radulescu, L Boulanger, Heiller, Gabriel Jackson, Norholm, Sebastian Forbes, Simon Holt, Lutyens, Leighton, Philip Moore, Nystedt, Planyavsky, Doppelbauer, Reger, Langlais Missa Brevis, Peeters. Some very obscure Danish bits and pieces too (Per Norgard, I think). I've also got some rarities by Dutch composers like Andries de Braal, and some bits of Barrie Cabena (a lot of the unpublished stuff has been very kindly put my way by Robert and Sally Munns, who rather blazed a trail in this regard). I know about the Karg Elert pieces with violin, and the odd shaving of Saint Saens and Dupre, but are there any gems any of you might know of that I'm missing? I know of a Lutoslawski piece (Lacrimosa) but it's impossible to find. MM - any ideas from Eastern Europe? Any leads gratefuly received. S
Cinq Prieres pour chant et orgue - Milhaud. Never heard them, sadly, but they do exist.
-
You would think that after six months of work on this unique console that either the Abbey or Harrison's website might carry a photo. The Abbey website has not updated the Organ' spec.
I'm sure if you can email H&H, they could accomodate a photo when the site is next updated. I would personally be more interested to see what they have done with the Salisbury console, which I gather has been relieved of all Willis III ebonised finish - no doubt some will consider this treachery.
-
The Organ in Arundel Cathedral by Nicholas M. Plumley; Positif Press, Oxford. £4.95
ISBN 0 906894 43 3
Positif Press
130 Southfield Road
Oxford
OX4 1PA
I cannot see it listed on the current website display:
http://www.positifpress.com/books.html
Your best bet might be to try the cathedral shop in Arundel:
Cathedral House,
Parsons Hill,
Arundel,
West Sussex,
BN18 9AY
Telephone: 01903 882297
This telephone number is almost certainly that of the Presbytery - or possibly the administrative office; however, they can probably give you the correct address (and telephone number, if there is one) for the shop.
The booklet itself has a waxed cover with colour photographs of the case on front and back and with close-up colour photographs of each stop-jamb on the inside front and back of the cover. There are thirty-two pages, eight monochrome plates and one reproduction of a drawing of the outside of the cathedral (complete with two hundred and eighty-foot spire, which was never built).
Many thanks - this sounds like an excellent booklet.
-
Well, I never did hear from David Wells - he is probably very busy, or perhaps my e-mail got lost in the ether. So, today, I decided to visit Arundel for myself. Whilst I was there I purchased a number of items, including an excellent booklet on the organ which was written by Nicholas Plumley. It included details of the recent restoration, a specification and a number of photographs.
Here is the present specification:
PEDAL ORGAN
Open Diapason Wood 16
Open Diapason Metal 16
Bourdon 16
Octave (M) 8
Flute 8
Fifteenth 4
Mixture (17-19-22) III
Trombone 16
Choir to Pedal
Great to Pedal
Swell to Pedal
CHOIR ORGAN
(Enclosed)
Gedeckt 8
Dulciana 8
Vox Angelica (II rks) 8
Suabe Flute 4
Harmonc Flute 4
Flageolet 2
Clarionet 8
Tremulant
(Unenclosed)
Solo Trumpet (En chamade) 8
Swell to Choir
GREAT ORGAN
Double Diapason (1-12 std. w) 16
Open Diapason 8
Cone Gamba 8
Stopped Diapason 8
Octave 4
Wald Flute 4
Twelfth 2 2/3
Fifteenth 2
Full Mixture (17-19-22) III
Sharp Mixture (26-29) II
Trumpet 8
Clarion 4
Choir to Great
Swell to Great
SWELL ORGAN
Open Diapason 8
Hohl Flute 8
Stopped Diapason 8
Viola da Gamba 8
Octave 4
Flute 4
Fifteenth 2
Mixture (15-19-22) III
Horn 8
Oboe 8
Clarion 4
Sub Octave
Unison Off
Octave
COMBINATIONS
Great Pistons to Pedal
Generals to Swell Toes
There are a number of details which are not readily apparent from the printed specification. The Solo Trumpet (Choir) is not new - it existed on the old Hill organ and was (oddly) placed in the Swell as the 8p chorus reed at the time of the 1931 rebuild and suppressed in 1968 - though I cannot imagine why. It has now been re-instated on the front of the case, en chamade - although this time the entire rank is horizontal. In the old Hill organ, only the lowest eleven pipes were displayed thus.
The GO III rank mixture is new, as are the Swell chorus reeds at 8p and 4p and the treble of the Oboe. However, these have all been constructed in a style closely matching what is known of the Hill organ of 1873.
The GO reeds have been re-made and revoiced without the harmonic trebles which they had acquired in 1931.
There are also a few ranks which have come from David Wells' own stock of old Hill pipework; for example, the Swell Viola da Gamba is largely from this source, the Choir Dulciana and Flageolet and the Swell 4p Flute.
The console has been entirely renewed, although some of the old (1890) Hill drawstop heads have been incorporated, having been re-engraved where necessary.
Apparently, the organ is already making a deep (and good) impression - Mark Blatchly spoke very highly of the instrument following its restoration and this summer there is an impressive list of recitalists who are booked to give concerts - including Daniel Roth.
The cathedral itself is beautiful and the restored organ case, with its re-instated chamade trumpet and decorated front pipes restored to pristine condition fits the building like a glove.
I thoroughly recommend a visit. However, if you do, and castles are also your thing, allow a few hours to visit Arundel Castle - this is also a stunning, huge and very interesting edifice, which was built and rebuilt over several centuries. There are many treasures, superb architectural features and excellent facilities. Do not be deterred by the £12.00 admission charge - in my view it was worth every penny.
Thanks for this interesting information - do you have details of the publisher of Plumley's history, please?
-
Well of course there's no ruling that everything on these dual-purpose jobs has to be dual-purpose. As I remember the original Dome layout there was the (almost) straight Great chorus which was un-tremmed, and a 'Collective Great' playable from the same manual which drew on the unified ranks which were on tremulants.
Bournemouth has the theatre ranks predominantly playable only from the Solo manual, and Southampton (with the luxury of two consoles) uses around 49 ranks to make up the concert specification, with only 24 of them playable from the theatre console - the Tibia only being available at the latter.
The Dome did always seem a bit of an enigma though. I believe it was a Quentin Maclean design, and it's interesting that, unlike all the other dual-purpose jobs, the bottom manual is designated Accompaniment rather than Choir, and also that the stopkeys appear to be set out in theatre style of volume within pitch, whereas the Compton dual-purpose jobs that I've seen (Bournemouth, Wimbledon and Lewisham) have flues followed by reeds, which must make them easier for the conventional organist to play. This must surely be compounded at Brighton with the unique colour coding of the stopkeys - white for the concert side and yellow for the theatre bits!
In terms of stops having alternate uses, Douglas Reeve - on one of his visits to Barry Memorial Hall and whilst discussing the hugely over-scaled No.1 Tibia on that ex. Regal, Edmonton instrument - told me that he often used the Swell/Solo Harmonic Claribel at the Dome as a small Tibia for occasions when the Tibia itself was too loud.
Have I imagined this, or did I indeed read that a full-length 32ft reed from this organ has had to be dumped for reasons of space?!
-
Wells has many supporters and if one takes care it can work well liturgically in the choir of the cathedral both from the point of view of the singers and the player. But - I personally do not find it a very satisfying instrument - there is still a Romantic H & H lurking underneath that does not really sit happily with the 70s work (wasn't Clutton responsible? - now there's a topic for a thread!) and in the nave much is lost even a small distance west of the crossing. Something that the newer upperwork has not really done much to help. I went to a recital there some years back (not by one of the then resident crew who largely control it well) and it was a very unsatisfactory experience with the quiet sounds lost in the building, the louder effects (Tuba, Pedal reed etc.) shouting and opaque and nothing much in between. I once also had to sing from directly west of it for the enthronement of a new bishop (long service - big music - full house etc.) and the continuous full organ effects were very wearisome!
AJJ
One wonders if it is only a matter of time before this instrument is being discussed in the past tense.
-
King's always has been the top banana, so this is no more than you would expect really.
Coincidentally, Andrew Davis is the first King's organ scholar of whom I ever became aware. Were he and Simon Preston the ones who gave the post real kudos? Who preceded them? I vaguely remember someone telling me that Garth Benson (organist of St Mary Redcliffe back in the 60s) had been organ scholar at King's, but most of my recollections these days seem to be vague so I've probably got that completely wrong!
Perhaps not as well-known is John Langdon, who presided at King's, I believe, between the tenures of Preston and Davis. For the last 38 years he has lectured at the RSAMD in Glasgow where he is held in great esteem by colleagues and generations of students.
-
These little comments are all very interesting, but we are becoming far removed from the original subject - Lesser Town Hall organs. Have we exhausted this topic ? Maybe so.
No one has mentioned Town Hall organs in Scotland, of which there are several.
The organ in the Library and art gallery in Glasgow could come under this heading.
This building has only recently been re-opened and its organ can now be heard again.
M.S.
Ayr Town Hall is definitely worth a mention - a fairly modest three manual Lewis & Co of 1903, limping along to this day without ever having been restored. Much smaller than Kelvingrove but similarly exquisite voicing.
-
MIDDLESBOROUGH TOWN HALL ORGAN>
Now that we know more about Dover Town Hall organ, what about the fine Hill in Middlesborough Town Hall. ? Come along you northern organists tell us something about that ? My own experience, as I mentioned earlier, dates from the mid 1970's when I was friendly with the Borough organist - Eddie Dalby. At that time the organ was in reasonable condition and recitals were given. I do recall one unfortunate occasion when the Tuba cyphered at the beginning of a Dupre piece I think causing the unfortunate organist to have a fit of the vapours. Who was this ? a very nice lady I recall - Jane Parker Smith ? Jane Watts ? (young and dark haired I recall). I forget.
As this organ is never mentioned I assume it has fallen into disuse, although I don't doubt that it is still physically in situ.
I have a newspaper cutting about Middlesbrough TH organ dating from about 1995. It concerned a proposed £200, 000 restoration scheme (no builder named) and a pending lottery application, the hope being to have the instrument restored by 1998 - its centenary. The organ was last overhauled c.1973, allegedly by HN&B although I understand John T. Jackson carried it out.
-
Hello Andrew Butler. Sorry to hear about Reg Adams, yes, although it was 30 years since I heard him he was indeed a brilliant musician. Tell me can you find out what happened to the organ in Dover Town Hall. I thought it was scrapped many years ago. I rang the Town Hall this afternoon and they are endeavouring to find out. Certainly Reg would know, and I would have thought organists in the area would also know.
I am in Hereford with our fine Father Willis.
Thank you
Michael Sullivan.
This is intriguing - I'm sure we are all hoping it IS still in situ.
-
I have recently had the pleasure of playing the Organ at Giggleswick School Chapel, recently fully rebuilt by Gary Owens (GO organs)
The original organ was a 1901 Willis, but had subsequently been altered by two builders, with the original tonal concept somewhat clouded. The recent rebuild is now complete, and there has been a return to the original style, which has however been enhanced most sensitively. The old organ as built had something of an old world charm about it, with no upperwork, and a rather restrained quality which made it ideal for choral work, but quite dull for anything else. Later additions of mixtures sought to address this, but the organ really did not know quite what it was, with a typical choir division along classical lines, and a very bright mixture on the great that did not blend with anything. The recent work has seen the mixture toned down to balance, and, to increase power, there is a new 8 foot trumpet on the great, matched by a 16 foot pedal reed. The excellent swell Cornopean is as it was, the 8 foot Oboe likewise, in fact all the original Willis work has all been retained and respected, complemented by contemporary 1901 pipework to match. The flutes are all full of character, with each different, and hence many different combinations are available. The choruses are unified, and the organ possesses a sweetness that will never tire.
If the organ had a unforced quality about it when built, that it still has, but it has evolved into a very fine instrument finally worthy of the beautiful chapel in which it lives. Although it's role in choral work has been enhanced with the replacement of many essential quieter voices, the organ is now also excellent as a true recital instrument, and has, when required, incredible power.
I honestly believe Mr Owens is to be congratulated, not only for the attention to detail in both action and console (complete with original Willis keys and toggle touch) , but also in restoring the original tonal concept and choosing to build upon that. This is an organ well worth hearing, and I gather already some very eminent organists have been most impressed with it.
Richard
I have similarly heard favourable reports from a distinguished recitalist who played there last year. Do you know where it might be possible to get hold of the stoplist and other technical details of this project? The GO Organs website appears to have been discontinued. Hope the big ivory "mushroom" drawstops have survived!
-
Cheltenham has a three-manual Rushworth & Dreaper of 1928 designed by Herbert Brewer. It's a fairly bold, but thick-sounding job, not the best R&D of the period by any means. I'm comparing it to New College Oxford (the old organ!) and Malvern Priory. CTH is not, in fact, an organ that I would pay to hear anyone play upon though I have to admit I did go once, just to see what someone I knew made of it in public performance! The best stops are probably the smooth but beautifully finished reeds. It remains exactly as built and was recently overhauled by Trevor Tipple of Worcester, since which time it has worked better and wheezed a lot less. It is used once or twice a season for an organ recital in the lunchtime series of concerts and I've given a couple of these over the years (my personal taste flexes sometimes when anyone waves money in front of me!). There is no Borough Organist and choral societies etc. make their own arrangements if they want an organist. Anyone wanting to pay a visit would probably get a helpful response, the TH number is 01242 521621 and the officer who deals with the organ is Mrs.Alison Luna.
Great 16 8 8 8 4 4 2.2/3 2 8
Swell 8 8 8 8 4 IV (including Tierce) 16 8 8 8
Choir (enclosed) 8 8 8 4 2 8 8 (Great Tromba)
Pedal 32 16 16 16 8 8 16
You haven't asked about Kidderminster which would probably count as 'lesser known'. This is an excellent old Hill three-manual with some more recent internal workings from HN&B including optional electric coupling. It's still used fairly regularly and the Borough Organist (Kidderminster comes under Wyre Forest District Council) is Tim Morris, who is also Organist and Choirmaster of St.George's Kidderminster. W.F.Central Services Department is on 01562 820505. Once again, I think they are proud of their instrument and would probably be sympathetic to a polite approach.
Most fortunately quite a lot of TH organs seem to have survived - lack of money is a great blessing sometimes. I particularly like Oxford, Rochdale and Nottingham, and also know Hull City Hall and Brangwyn Hall, Swansea quite well. These last two are both monsters which I firmly believe could kill in the wrong hands, but can sound wonderful if players are selective. Hull City Hall can sound quite different month to month, reflecting the taste of those that visit us. For example, Colin Wright (from Beverley Minster) who played very recently hardly used the full organ (or anything like) and the whole recital experience came off extremely well. I'd better not say who has made it sound worst in the last year's-worth of concerts (a very well-known name) Just to pick a couple more out.... Carol Williams turned it inside out and enjoyed the Theatre Organ Sounds to a large extent, and Carlo made it sound nothing less than world-class in everything he played! IMHO The Brangwyn Hall is a contender for the loudest organ in the UK along with Notre Dame de France, Leicester Place and Liverpool (plenum plus new reed).
A lot of the best TH organs don't seem to get much of an airing (or if they do, we never seem to get to hear about what is going on) I would list Reading and Huddersfield here. Maybe I just read the wrong magazines.
BTW I think VH was having fun when he reminded us of TT at Birmingham. Actually (ignoring everything TT does in the new hall) Birmingham TH proper hasn't been heard for quite a while I think.
Gordon Stewart has presided at Huddersfield Town Hall (job description "Kirklees Borough Organist"!) since 1989, overseeing the fortnightly Monday lunchtime series. He has recently relinquished the post, and although the recital series for next season is now in place, it is not known as yet if the post will be continued.
I was pleased to be able to get a copy of the re-released Priory recording of Kidderminster - it's a miracle the organ has survived so relatively unscathed.
-
Does anyone have experience of some of the lesser-known Town Hall organs which still remain? I'm thinking of the likes of Cheltenham, Darlaston, Dover, Hartlepool, Middlesbrough, West Bromwich. I suspect some of these places may continue to employ a "Borough Organist".......
-
Isn't Derby Cathedral another Compton with a mainly independent Swell - largely retained from the previous manifestation of the instrument?
AJJ
Wakefield's Choir division (12 ranks) also remains on a slider chest, happily returned in 1985 to its own Pearson case where it had resided from 1905 until the Compton rebuild. As an (exiled) West Yorkshireman, I should own up to a soft spot for this instrument, but I wonder if anyone has tried St. Mary Magdalene, Paddington? I tried, and enjoyed it, about 15 years ago. It was certainly not in the greatest condition mechanically, but it was good to try a console with the "light-touches". MM has mentioned mixtures elsewhere (David Wood may enlighten on Wakefield) but I recall a six-rank Plein-Jeu on the Paddington Great, and superb Posaune rank(as also at Wakefield). I recall the church itself at Paddington as magnificent also.
I wonder if the Compton console has survived at Derby?? Wakefield (drawstop) is extremely comfortable and in no way daunting.
-
The organ was drastically altered tonally, and although there is something of the old effect there perhaps, it is very heavily cutained by the dreadful treatment it has suffered post CC. Having played it myself, I can vouch that it can make an exciting sound ( not English or French, it doesn't know what it is) , and really needs a historical rebuiild, with all the later accretions being removed as well as the (unreliable) action, and very tacky console which lives in the broom cupboard under the organ, and is wheeled out for the Organist Entertains. Perhaps the saddest aspect of it all is the dreadful music that is nowadays played upon it, and that in itself shows how unmusical those in authority in Manchester are.
Richard
My own suspicion is that there weren't very many firms interested in taking on the contract of rebuilding a C-C instrument, although it was undoubtedly a potentially lucrative project. The Lewis firm had received C-C's endorsement ("...my closest disciples etc....") some decades earlier, so it seems reasonable to assume they might have been approached from the outset. Apart from the additions and the reed re-voicing, they were asked to "remove the Gamba tone" from the fluework. I've only heard the instrument on Radio 3, about 20 years ago, in a recital given by Stephen Cleobury. I don't have any distinguishing memory of how it sounded, so the comments from those who have played it are all the more interesting. The use of wooden resonators for their new 32ft Bombarde seems uncharacteristic of Lewis & Co., yet they would no doubt be beautifully made.
-
===================
I shall no doubt end this post with preposterous proposition which should get everyone going, but first things first.
Why, I wonder, has no-one written the book about John Compton?
Here was an organ-builder with a fantastic grasp of all things tonal, who had a very sound knowledge of mechanical things and who was at the cutting edge of organ-design. He was an early pioneer in the success of the theatre organ, he developed a system of extension organs which has yet to be bettered, he built up the largest pipe-organ factory ever seen in the UK, at North Acton, and left an impressive legacy.
Around him were people of real talent and experience, and I suppose John Compton was the name behind the first "combination organs" utilising electronic sound production and real pipes. The Compton electrones were beautifully made examples of early valve-electronics (many still in regular service).
The use of innovation was not restricted to the use of extension, but also included those remarkable 32ft Polyphones (a sort of valved wooden labrynth) which are related in many ways to the old "folded-horn" speaker enclosures. There were the famous 32ft Cornets, which so effectively simulated a 32ft reed when drawn with a 16ft reed. His articles about Diaphones demonstrate a sharpness of mind which is seldom found in organ-building; not only covering the theory of them, but highlighting many of the inherent problems of regulation.
I llok at Compton switchgear and I am impressed. I look at verious organ components, all beautifully varnished, and I am impressed by the quality.
If ever an organ-builder represented "Made in Britain" (as it was then understood), John Compton was a perfect example of someone who valued quality on all fronts.
Born in Nottingham, John Compton possibly discovered his love of cutting-edge innovation during his apprenticeship with Brindley & Foster of Sheffield; a company who possibly developed the most complex of all pneumatic-actions, based on the German cone-valve chests, and incorporating a number of very clever registrational aids which they called "Brindgradus".
Even during wartime, when he was posted to Italy, John Compton was to be seen "experimenting" (vandalising?) various old Italian organs, as he tried out all sorts of tonal experiments.
So when a board member such as "pcnd" speaks of being impressed by a Compton organ, I for one am not in the least bit surprised, for they usually are indeed "musical" instruments.
Somewhere I have a very detailed set of schematics for a Compton extension organ, which show the various derivations and borrowings, and whether hearing a totally enclosed pure extension organ, divided usually into two seperate expression chambers, or hearing a more typical part-straight (Swell) and part extension (Great, Pedal etc) such as Wakefield Cathedral or St.Bride's, the effect is almost always entirely convincing.
In voicing terms, Compton perfected a very English style of romantic voicing, with quite heavily blown, leathered diapsons which never sound at all dull or ponderous as one might expect. Whether quiet Flutes and Strings, or roaring Tubas and strident Orchestral Trumpets, the voicing was usually magnificent.
Another aspect of Compton's work, which few ever realise, is the fact that many of those high-pitched (derived) Cymbels and Acuta Mixtures, are not, as the stop-head suggests Iv raks or V rks, but often many more than that stated. Compton had the good sense not to upset the establishment of the day by stating the facts too obviously!!
Listen to the (pre neo-classical) sound of a Compton organ. Were they not altogether brighter and lighter than almost all his competitors with a clear sense of chorus-work?
All this from derivations and extensions, which carefully avoided consecutive octave extensions, unlike many American-built organs of the same period.
Even the Tierces would usually be derived (switched) from the Celeste rank, in order that the tuning sounded correct.
However, the real genius was not so much to be found in the actual method of extension-principle applied, but in the way a whole instrument was musically cohesive; each voice carefully matched to the next, and each extension carefully graded in such a way, that the full organ pleno was, in effect, one very large Mixture stop, in which every rank made a contribution to the whole, as well as standing apart in its own rights.
So now for my preposterous statement in the form of a proposition.
I believe that John Compton, when seen in the light of the prevalent fashions of his day, was "possibly" the equal to Arp Schnitger in his, and furthermore, like the great baroque master, he could replicate one good result after another, as befits a true master organ-builder.
Lastly, it's very interesting to note that many ex-Compton men went on to do great things of their own, and not least, the founder members of the "other" neo-classical revival in the form of Grant, Deegens and Rippen.
I would like to think that they, and others, owed a great deal to what John Compton taught them.
MM
Elvin's "Pipes and Actions" has an interesting and substantial chapter on Compton. I know Wakefield well, an instrument enhanced by the conservative work done in 1985 by Wood of Huddersfield. It's perhaps a shame about Compton's treatment of the much-admired Lewis at Ilkley, but I suppose most other builders wouldn't have given that approach a second thought either.
-
===============
This is very interesting.
I wonder if I may prevail upon "Gross Geigen" to furnish a little more information....I don't know enough about this instrument I'm afraid.
Is GG actually suggesting that Cavaille-Coll did the revoicing and actually made Tubas, or am I geting this wrong, and that it could actually have been whoever it was that represented the T C Lewis name at the time at was rebuilt?
I never get the feeling that the pedal reeds are especially "French," and yet, due to relatively small space into which the organ speaks, this may have been quite deliberate from the outset.
Let's face it, I know almost nothing about the history of this instrument!!
MM
The Tubas were part of the Solo division which Cavaille-Coll added in 1893, and revoiced by Lewis & Co's reed voicer (possibly Tunks if he was still there) in 1913.
There has quite recently been talk of a possible restoration of the instrument to either the 1877 or 1893 design, although as yet there hasn't been much progress.
I gather there are some who wish the instrument to be preserved in its current form.
-
====================
The organ at Manchester Town Hall is not in pristine condition and is seldom used, after lunch-time recitals stopped a while ago (2004?).
I'm sorry to disappoint those who think it is an unaltered Cavaille-Coll, because this is not the case.
I've played this organ a few times, and the character of the instrument is a strange crtoss-breed of French and English ideas, and the culprit who must take responsibility for that is T C Lewis (which may have then fallen into the Willis controlled era?)
The original organ was enlarged by Cavaille-Coll, with the addition of a Solo Organ, but in the subsequent Lewis rebuild, there were changes which included an Echo Organ (complete with Viole Mixture....suggesting the Willis influence). More importantly, Tubas slipped into the specification.
I have never found the reeds on this organ remotely Cavaille-Coll in character, and I often wonder if the original reeds were not revoiced throughout the instrument?
That stated, I suspect that this IS an instrument which can be restored back from whence it came, but the Town Hall is hardly a large concert-hall, unlike many others. It amounts to a large school type of assembly-hall, which does limit the potential of this instrument and makes a large audience almost an impossibility.
In many ways, I feel that Manchester missed an opportunity with the Bridgewater Hall, because with the right sort of design-acoustic, the town hall organ would have been quite an attraction if it had been fully restored and installed in the B.H.
It is very difficult to see from where the will to spend money on the TH organ might yet emerge, and yet, some of the public projects have been quite spectacular and Manchester is probably the most interesting and vibrant city outside London.
At least, for the present time, the organ is safe even if it is not played or heard often.
MM
The Manchester Town Hall rebuild was completed by Lewis & Co. Ltd (as they had been known since 1884) in 1913, some six years before the "tie-up" with the Willis firm. Old man T.C. Lewis (away from the firm from c.1898) had, therefore, no responsibility in this scheme. The two Tubas formed part of the Cavaille-Coll six stop Solo division of 1893.
Revoicing, of a surpressive nature, was not confined to the reedwork alone. Together with the various additions, the scheme as realised appears to have resulted, as MM suggests, in a very "uneasy"
tonal alliance, yet it would be difficult to think of any builder who, at that time, would have been any less invasive.
-
No, I was being a bit provocative.
Tho' my point was really about the amount of really world-class music in a small area, in such concentrated quantities!The Liverpool organ is a marvel, but I do feel it's been tinkered with of late. I reckon HWIII's best work is Westminster Cathedral, myself.
Did the "tinkering" not start between 1958-1960 when the pipework of the original unenclosed Choir department was replaced? Was this carried out at Rawsthorne's instigation, I wonder?
Does replacement of soundboards, as carried out for the Westminster Cathedral Choir and Solo divisions in 1984, count as "tinkering"?
-
No, I was being a bit provocative. Tho' my point was really about the amount of really world-class music in a small area, in such concentrated quantities!
The Liverpool organ is a marvel, but I do feel it's been tinkered with of late. I reckon HWIII's best work is Westminster Cathedral, myself.
-
Jonathan Bielby at Wakefield - 36 years with his Bass Cornet.
Tho' my point was really about the amount of really world-class music in a small area, in such concentrated quantities!
Ian Tracey In Liverpool
in General discussion
Posted