Pierre Lauwers

Here is the specifications of the Weingarten Oberwerk Mixture: Weingarten, Gabler 1750, Mixtur 9-12 rangs de l'Oberwerk: C: 4'- 2 2/3'- 2'- 1 3/5'- 1 1/3'- 1'- 4/5'- 2/3'- 1/2' c: 4'- 2 2/3'- 2'- 1 3/5'- 1 1/3'- 1'- 1'- 4/5'- 2/3'- 2/3'- 1/2'- 1/2' c1: 5 1/3'- 4'- 3 1/5'- 2 2/3'- 2'- 2'- 1 3/5'- 1 3/5'- 1 1/3'- 1 1/3'- 1'- 1' c2: 6 2/5'- 5 1/3'- 5 1/3'- 4'- 4'- 3 1/5'- 3 1/5'- 2 2/3'- 2 2/3'- 2'- 2' .....So the sound is rather predictable. Pierre

Bach by André Isoir at Weingarten: Mind the Tierces! Pierre

Interesting ! Pierre

The point is effectively there; there is a last step to be done, on paper of course, towards a really post-romantic organ. And this is with the "structural" Mixtures. A 1 1/7' independant rank could already form a "Harmonics" substitute with the Cornet -at least in the treble, as the genuine Harmonics starts with 1 3/5' at C, also considerably higher in pitch than a Cornet.- One gets the impression the old faith in the "good-for-all-repertoire" Graal-organ has some difficulties to die. But fact is, a romantic organ definitely needs romantic mixtures. Even the Cornet, in a romantic organ, is something different from the baroque models. Pierre

Yes, John, Remember, I already said it from 2006....And not only in Germany. Guess what would happen in Belgium if some money came back ? The little village of Nadrin, eastern Belgium, just opened the new organ in the parish church: an Arthur Harrison with 13 stops on two manuals and Pedal, 1898. The organ was refurbished and erected by the Schumacher firm of Baelen (german-speaking Belgium) near Eupen. Schumacher found it by a german builder who especializes with british organs recuperation. The specifications is as follows: GREAT Open Diapason 8' Hohlflute 8' Dulciana 8' Principal 4' Harmonic Flute 4' Piccolo 2' SWELL Open Diapason 8' Salicional 8' Voix celeste 8' Rohrflute 8' Gemshorn 4' Oboe 8' PEDAL Bourdon 16' See pictures here: http://www.ardennesmagazine.be/reportages/.../article_01.htm ....There are even some videos. If you watch them, remember it is a little village in the Ardennes, an area to be compared with the remotest corners of the Highlands, so do not expect a musical level like in Worcester etc... Pierre

Going back to the interesting stuff now, there is this video which illustrates Pierre Schyven's masterpiece in Antwerp's Cathedral: Note the Mixtures; this organ, in original conditions, dates 1891, and still has those bright Quint Mixtures Pierre Schyven ever built, even in small instruments. The tone is even not forced with that, so that they are perfectly usable without the reeds ! Pierre Schyven's voicing was rather milder than with the french builders. Trained with Josef Merklin in Brussels, his style is just between the french and the german ones. The Antwerp's organ has several rare free-reed stops. Pierre

:lol: Pierre

Indeed, Bazuin, And this work deserves a little add here, I think: http://www.deslegte.com/node/138253 I partially agree with Pcnd's remarks. The tempo may appear sluggish at times, but I like its "average speed", though. The final crescendo could be dispensed with. But I would like to hear that on a period thuringian organ. Pierre

About the resemblance between the Willis three ranks Mixture and the baroque Sesquialtera in Britain (and Flanders), I found this interesting page: http://www.btinternet.com/~william.drake/1...amuel_green.htm Pierre

Here a somwewhat different BWV 562: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIrawgiUeHk There are some points that deserve discussion, no doubt, but at least this interpret tries to get out of the "Neo" vision of the 20th century. The general Tempo I find to the point. Pierre

Rather public; the first aim here is to assess a kind of modern organ design from several viewpoints (I have the same thread on the french forum and on a german forum). This design is sound, no doubt, but is it really a modern one ? Others thoughts ? Pierre

A little Video about one of the most significant builders of the 20th century: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mupkRkQSUJM Pierre

The "Tribune" is low enough to accomodate an Open 32'. The Width and depth I do not know the numbers exactly (it is not a project of mine, though I find it interesting, but have questions), but it is sufficient for a complete choir to be hosted between the Rückpositiv and the Brustwerk , not to mention the (movable) console -the action is to be electric-. The Great and Swell will be placed on both sides of the Tribune in order not to hide the windows (an old problem on the continent) behind, while the Pedal will be divided in two parts against the walls. Pierre

Post edited. Pierre

The church seats about 2,000 people. The building is made of (smooth surface) bricks, with no paint nor carpetry. The organ is to have the traditional continental west-end position, above the doors. The choir is to be located on the tribune, with the organ also. The reverberation time is about 5 seconds. The aims are: to play "Repertoire" from Bach to Flor Peeters and Messiaen, and choral music. Pierre

Nothing "serious" yet, this is only a project intended by a friend for a parish church (indeed a rather big one). This would be a modern eclectic organ with a german bias: HAUPTWERK Praestant 16' Quintadena 16' Principal 8' Offenflöte 8' Nachthorn-Gedackt 8' Dulciana 8' (the slightly stringy model) Octave 4' Singend Prinzipal 4' Hohlflöte 4' Spitzquinte 2 2/3' Superoctave 2' Gemshorn 2' (the northern version, wide scale) Cornet 3-5r Mixtur 4-6r Dulcian 16' Trompete 8' Kopfregal 4' RÜCKPOSITIV Zartflöte 8' Rohrgedackt 8' Quintadena 8' Praestant 4' Spitzflöte 4' Sifflöte 2' Nachthorn 1' Tertian 2r 1 3/5'- 1 1/3' Zimbel 2-3r Krummhorn 8' SCHWELLWERK Lieblich Gedackt 16' Geigendprinzipal 8' Holzflöte 8' Viola di gamba 8' Salicional 8' Vox coelestis 8' Bourdon 8' Octave 4' Schweizerpfeife 4' (also a Gamba after ancient models) Querflöte 4' Waldflöte 2' Sesquialtera 2r 2 2/3'- 1 3/5' Grosse Cymbel 4-5r Bombarde 16' Trompette 8' Clairon 4' BRUSTWERK Diapason 8' Rohrflöte 8' Gemshorn 8' Principal 4' Blockflöte 4' Flageolet 2' Nachthorn-Terz 1 3/5' Superquinte 1 1/3' Scharff 3-4r Oboe 8' Clairon 4' Geigendregal 4' PEDAL Untersatz 32' Principalbass 16' Violonbass 16' Subbass 16' Gedacktbass 16' Grossquintbass 10 2/3' Oktabvass 8' Bassflöte 8' Gedackt-Pommer 8' Choralbass 4' Flachflöte 2' Hintersatz 3-7r Contraposaune 32' Posaune 16' Bombarde 16' Basstrompete 8' Schalmey 4' Pierre

Would a little drawing be necessary ? Pierre.

"On the contrary!" (Quote) Pierre

"It seems to support the mixture better - which has a third/sesquialtera rank in it" (Quote) Willis Mixtures are Sesquialtera-derived (1 3/5'- 1 1/3'- 1', with variants when the number of ranks excess 3). We have Sesquialteras in Belgium that resemble those Mixtures. Pierre

"I know what organists in the '70s did, Pierre (that was when I was growing up), but that is a different era." (Quote) .....And here is your own point ! Of course, they did. Fact is, an Arthur Harrison organ belongs to another era than ours. And so, we must be able to use it as was back to its period, exactly like we would be quite interested to know how Bach registred with the organs he had (you know, those quite "not-baroque" things crammed with 8' tone). Please, do not let this knowledge go now with the british organ from the beginnings of the 20th century... Of course we may try to use any organ after new ways, no doubt. But Mr Vennings is right saying an organist who plays an H&H organ from 1917 should know how it was used then. And if in doubt, ask him. Our ways of today are exactly as questionnable as any other one, we also shall be seen as outdated sometimes. As far as I know, it is probable the custom to use the II instead of the I in anything that may resemble what we believe today to be a "Diapason chorus" goes back to the introduction of the leathered lips in Diapason pipes. (Despite the fact they condemned the good Robert to the worst evils imaginable, it seems many british builders took some of his ideas over indeed. I met with much leathered Diapasons in the 70's. And they were used!) Pierre

"fat pneumatic monsters" (Quote) Pierre

Dear Colin, The answer to your question is here, see especially page 90 and 91: http://www.walckerorgel.de/gewalcker.de/PD...ga-Walcker1.pdf (Sorry, I did not translate it in english!) Pierre

A 1906 Mutin in Buenos Aires, Argentina, very well recorded, posted quite recently on Youtube: Part 2.: Pierre

Stephen Bicknell gave two interesting articles about this matter on his website, they have their place on this thread: http://www.stephenbicknell.org/3.6.2.php http://www.stephenbicknell.org/3.6.3.php Pierre

Quite interesting postings, Colin ! thanks for that. How true is the note about modern, standard Mixtures "glued" upon ancient stops, and whose effect varies trough the compass because the scales do not match; we have countless examples of such missfits in Belgium. Now about this: "But the problem is the No.2 Principal is too large and the wrong scale to work with the No.3 Diapason but it's not large enough for the No.2 Diapason. The No.1 Principal is too big for the No.2 Diapason but not large enough for the No.1 Diapason (which is made to a completely different progression). It's all to with providing different volumes of sound. The sound is always a compromise. The various rebuilds have introduced different scalings and voicing to provide this dynamic variety at the expense of blend, focus and clarity. On this type of organ I think it's fine to say "Ah, Baroque!" and reach for the octave couplers on the swell mixture to provide that much prized "brightness". From about the middle of the 18th century -and possibly even earlier in central Germany- the Diapason chorus commenced to serve as a "backbone" to the tonal structure, and not and ensemble Sui Generis (Save the "exception française", of course!). In organs of the 19th century, the Principal (I mean the 4' in traditional english nomenclature) is no more scaled after the 8' Diapason alone, but for some of them (if there are two Principals) or all of them togheter; for softer registrations with a 4', you have to use the Flûte 4'. Meanwhile, the Fifteenth is meant to be used with all the 8' and 4', and the Mixture(s) with the reeds (save with exception like Lewis, who followed Schulze practice). So the builders of such organs did not expect the Principals to be used with things like 8-4-2 2/3-2, even if the stops were there, in order to give the organ its genuine "Principal structure". The scaling and voicing did follow accordingly. Pierre