Pierre Lauwers

Read that "Modern organ stops" again. Pierre

"there is the beginnings of a book here " (Quote) Aha ? B-H's "Modern organ stops" is still a reference today, despite the preconceptions against it from the later Neo tribe; he knew quite better than those what a chorus is... May we know more about that potential book ? Pierre

Romantic US organs with nine (yes: 9) stops, there are a sheer number of them. But nobody in Europe knows them and how interesting they are ! We talk of course of "Octopods" here....This one has a 2', but illustrates the genre quite well. Hook & Hastings (Boston) organ from 1893: (check under "others video from..." there are two handfulls of videos with this organ). And oooh this one: Lack of "clarity in the polyphonic textures"? And note the acoustics do not help at all, as it is often the case in the United States. Pierre

Indeed ! This said, english organs had Swellboxes already more than 100 years before S-S Wesley... I would be very interested to ear Wesley's anthems accompanied by an organ tuned after a late unequal temperament. Who will try that ? The H-J organ wasn't the one for Wesley, no doubt; but it was an incredible accompanying organ. D. Hunt and his team used it in a wide choral repertoire with great success. It was not Saint-Saëns organ as well, but the "Messe à quatre voix" they recorded is still the best available. The CD I have is very busy, I think it is wandering through all Belgium from one organist to the next one. Pierre

That is interesting, msw. When was this Bevington organ built ? Well I found it: http://www.kendalparishchurch.co.uk/kpc/bevorg.html ....Nearly as late as the H-J!!! (but of course not so modern). Wasn't Wesley a fan of the early Father Willis jobs ? Pierre

Let us not forget Donald Hunt. Here are 4 MP3 at Worcester: Partie 1 http://orguemirepoix.yellis.net/HS/Worcest..._Our_Hands1.mp3 Partie 2 http://orguemirepoix.yellis.net/HS/Worcest..._Our_Hands2.mp3 Partie 3 http://orguemirepoix.yellis.net/HS/Worcest..._Our_Hands3.mp3 Partie 4 http://orguemirepoix.yellis.net/HS/Worcest..._Our_Hands4.mp3 This is an absolute summit, Grade A+++ World class ! Pierre

How interesting a thread ! Had S-S Wesley be a german or a french composer, be sure there would already be 100 postings here... Wesley's music asks for well-marked changes. There is a terrible, passionnate fire behind it; it is too "romantic" for british liturgical use, hence its neglect; but now that even guitars are allowed into the church, why not give Wesley the place he deserves, despite the loud climaxes ? At Worcester the old organ permitted to accompany a complete Wesley Anthem with the Swell only, but we make take for sure we shall have to wait another century before someone gets the idea to build something like that Swell again.... But here is an interesting example on Youtube: And then this one which illustrates at best those extreme changes and climaxes: Pierre

Where will it go in the end ? Let us open the game; Germany or the Netherlands ? Pierre

....And this bring us back to a fundamental question: are organs works of Art or Fridges ? Maybe the Grove organ could be -with utmost care- moved towards a better position, but the very last thing to do would be to change anything at all, be it a case or a new console, not to mention the pitch! No vintage car owner would have the idea to paste a power steering and electric windows to a 1920 Rolls-Royce. Are the organists less educated than them ? As for concerts, the Grove organ offers more than anyone could dream of. Not only is it an historic organ of the very first class, but it seems capable to do justice to a wide "Repertoire" as well, from César Franck to Tournemire + all what comes between them, in France, England and even, up to a certain extent, Germany. As a synthesis of two completely different styles, the Schulze-Lewis tradition and Willis-inspired reed choruses, this organ was the first to break down the romantic rules of organ design, and, as such, it was the first "Post-romantic" organ. Pierre

This will be immediately posted on the french Forum. More videos are needed, with detail registrations and views of the instrument. Pierre

Thaaaaanks ! Pierre

This is becoming somewhat worn-out an argument, like an noisy old Barker lever, isn't it ? There are good actions in all systems. Pierre

Excellent idea; by the way, some videos on Youtube would be usefull to have the instrument better known ! Pierre

Here is an interesting video featuring one of the few Von Beckerath organs in France (Montélimar, Département of the Drôme): This is a vision of Bach that is typical of the 20th century, not at all an historic one. But this is without doubt an instrument that would deserve protection immediately as an historic organ, and a proof there are excellent organs from that period. Pierre

Erhaling/ Wiederholung/ Rappel/ Reminder: That Video expresses opinions from 1950, up to Schweitzer condemnation of the "Fabrikorgel", while himself preffering Dalstein & Haerpfer post-romantic, pneumatic organs for his Bach recordings! (He called them "Silbermanns" because they had things like "Salicional Silbermann" and the like.....Which never existed outside Emil Rupp's mind). Playing "the good, the bad and the ugly" is, in Fine, to play God, and, like all boomerangs, ever finish with a rather crude "come back". The ear decides, not size of business, way of doing/buing the pipes etc. Pierre

Bazuin, some comments from Henk van Eeken on those videos are to be regretted. We are again presented with the worn-out Fabrikorgeln neo-baroque Mantra! One never wins diffaming the others....Wie Schade. Pierre

The size of the business is one thing, the artistic value of its products is another one. If the business is successfull, then either the product is really good indeed, or it is very competitive. Silbermann, Schnitger, J. Wagner, Cavaillé-Coll, Walcker, Willis.....All were big businesses for their times -and would be today as well-. But they did not produce low-cost products, but Premium quality. Now let's have a look at what is named "Boutique builders" in the U.S., also little workshops. There were, and are, excellent ones. AND there were and are some we, historians, regret everyday they ever existed...No need for a picture. So there is absolutely no corelation between size of business and quality in organ-building. Pierre

David, the last paragraph of your last post here might be *discussed*.... Pierre

Not neo-classic, but Post-romantic Stahlhuth organ, restored by Jann. Heavy wind stops included (several flue stops plus the Tuba). Pierre

This is true up to a dedicate point. The scalings, halving rates etc also have a say on the result. The materials as well, despite the fact the voicer can make wood pipes sound like metal ones etc. Or S. Green's Diapasons, very thin, could be make to sound like heavy, tick spotted metal ones... Pierre

Well, the Thynne organ is still there ! and as for the usefullness of a Dallam organ, suffice to ask on the french forum, where there are two organistes titulaires of Dallam organs in Brittany... Pierre

The french did it, why couldn't Britain do the same ? Pierre

There are of course excellent pipe suppliers, and Stinkens is one of them. Already during the 19th century, organ-builders like Dalstein & Haerpfer and Stahlhuth bought their reed stops from Mazurie in Paris; the Van Bever brothers in Brussels had all their (Zinc!) pipes made elsewhere, and their organs are among the best if their time. The question is in fact what the purposes behind this are. Stahlhuth bought his french-style Trompettes harmoniques in Paris, and his Tubas in Britain. There was an artistic purpose to this, and something like that was done recently in Magdeburg. But DIY also has its advantages; besides artistic achievements, to make one's pipes is the best means to build something really personnal, particularly as far as structural stops (Diapason choruses for instance) are concerned. Pierre

I fully agree with Nigell. -How much english baroque organs still exist -untouched I mean- in the UK ? -The William Thynne organ deserves a better position (I visted it, but halas it could not be heard then in 1978). For acoustic reasons, of course, but for another one yet: last year, it nearly played "Am Wasseflüssen Babylon" alone, a Choral that could have been *final*! Pierre

Well, next to the William Thynne organ, which is as precious as the Casparini in Vilnius, no modern organ exists yet! Pierre