sbarber49
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Posts posted by sbarber49
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I see Llandaff has financial problems:
http://llandaff.churchinwales.org.uk/news/2013/11/cathedral-tackles-budget-deficit/
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It depends whether you use the Julian or Gregorian calendar. Which was in use in London at the time?
It depends whether you use the Julian or Gregorian calendar. Which was in use in London at the time?
Well, "A newspaper of the time announced his death on Good Friday, 13th April 1759" so Easter Saturday must have been 21st.
I'm always pedantic anyway, but I get hot under the collar if Easter is anticipated: Good Friday, Holy Saturday or Easter Eve, Easter Day, Easter Monday etc. Bit sad, I know, I should get out more.
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So when did Handel die?
A newspaper of the time announced his death on Good Friday, 13th April 1759.
According to the New Grove he died at 8 am on Saturday 14th April
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According to the Dictionary of National Biography “died at his home in Brook Street, Hanover Square, Westminster, about 8 a.m. on 14 April (Easter Saturday).”
Easter Saturday was surely 21st April in 1759.
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This may be of interest to some - for two reasons - a new Sonata by Francis Pott (IIRC Quinney has played much of Pott's music before), but perhaps more significantly a statement of intent to bring the organ down to 'standard' pitch. Interesting stuff - Mr Quinney making his mark already perhaps?
This has been an ongoing campaign for many years! I think Andrew Reid is responsible for getting it close to a reality.
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I say this, having had to play several Latin Mass settings in recent times that are available only from these sources; full of misprints, poorly laid out, difficult to read and not worth doing anyway. For example, Paulo Giorza'a Mass No 8 in Bflat.
Though this appears to be a scan of a published score, from IMSLP, not CPDL. Shouldn't have too many misprints or be poorly laid out. (At least I can't find it on CPDL)
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Yes, I know that, Stephen, but they are other people's performing editions and therefore not automatically trustworthy. I have recently had a long rant about CPDL elsewhere, so won't repeat my views here.
True, but in this case they are just typed-out versions of the printed score, I think (though I've only glanced at them).
I think CPDL is a fantastic resource for choirs: yes you need to proof-read scores and note any mistakes. I think, like wikipedia, that there is now more discussion of the scores and that reliability will improve. Wikipedia was a joke in the early days.
Editions of music are a different matter - there you are in the hands of the editor. Very dangerous and, indeed, worrying.
Scores which are just typed out from the published version can be easily checked, though I'm not sure what happens when no-one can afford to publish choral music and there are no authoritative scores to check with.
IMSLP is very good and, because most of it is scans of old editions, you know what you're getting - and it's no different from all those Dover reprints, is it? (Though, admittedly, sometimes hard to read.)
The "original compositions" on CPDL seem to be pretty dire, from the small number I've looked at: musical literacy and basic knowledge of harmony rather lacking in many cases.
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I don't have a score of this piece, but I have played and heard it many times. I am used to the Gloria being faster. Consideration of the notation shows that the canticle moves primarily in crotchets (= 4/4) but the Gloria is closer to a minim movement (= 2/2), so an increase in speed is not illogical.
You can find two versions on CPDL: http://www3.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/John_Ireland
(Still under copyright here, of course)
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I think Stainer recommended button boots in his Primer.
To quote Stainer:
"Shoes or boots worn when playing should not be made too narrow or too round at the toe; they should have fairly deep heel-pieces........."
He goes on to say (I like this bit):
"Lady-pupils should avoid very small and also very circular heel-pieces, unless they are prepared to undergo a temporary imprisonment or purchase liberty by the sacrifice of a boot."
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Thanks for this! This is the sort of area where the fate of an organ is clearly capable of being in danger and perhaps a local organist offering to do a recital there might inspire the young generation?
Perhaps one day the younger generation might get bored of the "less traditional" music as a result? But this sort of thing is very much like water dripping on a stone and not necessarily achieved with just one recital. At a memorial service for a wise friend the other day one of his sayings was reported to the assembled gathering "If you are going to bother to write and complain, be prepared to write the seventh letter".
Possibly efforts to regain appreciation for organs bear similarities?
Best wishes
Spottedmetal
To be fair, the church (St Peter's, Yaxley) does keep this organ in good condition. I played for a wedding here a couple of weeks ago. It's a lovely instrument though the console and swell are on one side of the arch and the great on the other: when you play you can hardly hear the great or congregation. (The latter is a good thing when playing before a wedding!)
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Regardless of their accuracy or otherwise, assumptions can be dangerous!
Malcolm
Confirmation about St George's here:
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The Fantasia from the Great G minor isn't that difficult, and the Fantasia in C minor (the one without the fugue in Novello Book 3) is straightforward and worthwhile.
Speaking of Novello - I was brought up on it and I have it all bound in hard covers so I'm not likely to change, but I've heard various top organists, including the late David Sanger, say that it's not wildly inaccurate and easier to read than others. I believe someone made a list of possible adjustments - it would be nice if it were to be made available.
The Novello edition (especially the volumes edited by Emery) are fine: nicely laid out and with good page turns - as far as such a thing is possible.
However this Fantasia in C minor is an exception - for some reason the Novello editors decided to strip the piece of its ornaments - a vital part of it. It's a graceful French-style piece (I've heard it played with notes inegales). Look up IMSLP if you want to play it.
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I haven't watched the service yet as the timing coincided with my daily gym and swim session - it's a shame that one can't record a programme broadcast on the red button so I'll have to put up with the commentary...
Channel 301 on Freeview broadcasts Red Button stuff and I was able to record the service on it and avoid the commentary. Sadly the organ music before and after was drowned by other noise.
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Quick and ready reckoner: it passes the ‘Dix test’ - different harmonies for lines 3/4 to 1/2 - which Common Praise, surprisingly, doesn’t.
I'm interested in this. I've always preferred the harmonies on lines 1 & 2 to be repeated (as in the English Hymnal and New English Hymnal). The chromatic harmonies for lines 3 & 4 seem to be completely out of keeping with the rest of the harmony and the cadence at the end seems unnatural to me; at any rate I never play this version. I don't know what part Monk played in adapting Kocher's tune but I wonder if the altered harmonies were written by Nicholson at the same time as he wrote the descant in, for example, AMNS.
Later:
Just found this version of the original tune by Kocher. It seems very strange, used as we are to the Monk shortened version.
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Horrible habit! I have very occasionally done it to a worship song/chorus thing and I always do it to At the name of Jesus to Camberwell - though i have a slightly extended interlude and go up a tone with some silly harmonies. Goes down a treat and is at least as tasteful as the tune itself. (If anyone wants a copy, PM me.) I dare say Bach would have treated Camberwell with a little freedom as well!
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I have just bought "12 short preludes on Old English Psalm Tunes" by W. T. Best and I think they're very good. Lots of Lenten ones, but one on Hanover which I played (badly) on Sunday. They are short to very short. There is a beautiful one on a tune by Purcell and one I intend to play this Sunday on "Southwell (Lord Jesus, think on me) - the tune being entitled "Bow down, thy gracious ear". Tunes that are still commonly sung include, as well as Southwell and Hanover, The Old Hundredth, Melcombe, Surrey, St Anne. But the others are well worth playing, I think.
The point is that there is a prelude on Wareham ("Thy mercies, Lord, shall be my song"), but it is very short so may not be any use to you. However I do recommend these little preludes. They're published by Fitzjohn Music Publications (i.e. David Patrick. (http://www.impulse-m...tzjohnmusic.htm)
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Not your fault, Stephen! Performers shouldn't be expected to know everything. It's the editor's fault for implying that certainty exists where it doesn't. I am of course assuming there isn't an introduction that covers this - one should always read introductions. Is the editor credited?
The editor is Robert Gower and it's a very nicely produced book: not in my view as authoritative as the Ceremonial and Christmas books, but that is only my impression. The introduction gives no information on the pieces or composers - a missed opportunity?
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This must be BWV 745. I hope OUP make it clear that the authorship is by no means certain. It is a lovely piece, though, whichever Bach wrote it. I could even believe it was Brahms, at least in the version with pedals (there's a manualiter version too).
Yes, it is. Never come across it - feel a fool now! Peter Williams certainly doesn't have the same certainty about the composer as OUP.
The OUP book just gives CPE Bach as the composer, not even "formerly attrib to J.S." or any hint that the authorship is in doubt. I think that's a pity. The book has no information about the pieces at all and no biographical information (other than dates). No registration, fingering or metronome suggestions: that's fine if the book is a scholarly edition, but clearly it isn't. (The initial chorale harmonization is rather smoother than the version on IMSLP. Has it been quietly doctored without a mention or is it from a different copy?)
Still, I'm very pleased to be introduced to this piece.
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Indeed - this was useful in helping me to decide not to bother just yet.
Thank you.
Well, I didn't mean to put anyone off buying it! It's all good music. I would prefer more austere music in Lent, but that's just a personal opinion. The very first piece in the book is super prelude on 40 Days and 40 Nights by CPE Bach. I will certainly play it on Sunday week.
Nit-picking again, however, I wonder why O Mensch bewein is in the Lent section, rather than Passiontide?? Slightly surprised that Whitlock's Song 13 (Jesu, grant me this I pray) is in the Holy Week section - when there is so much wonderful Passiontide music around - all those Baroque preludes. The only prelude on the Passion Chorale is a Chorale and Variation by Mendelssohn: in the Variation only 25 of the 74 bars are by Mendelssohn, the rest is by the editor. He does a good job, of course, but I wonder if the composer didn't complete it because he felt that his initial good idea was unsustainable for the whole tune?
Any opinions on the Sowerby "Were You there"?
If Bednall had written his toccata on an Easter Hymn it would have been great - we need an exciting voluntary for Easter Day!
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My copy arrived very promptly from Allegro (I had pre-ordered it). I played the Tambling Fanfare on “Shine, Jesus, shine” on Sunday as we had that for our All-age Candlemas service. Good fun, if a little light-weight for an “Oxford Book of………”
Lots of interesting pieces, but not as useful to me as I’d hoped, I must say. Some of the Lent and Holy Week preludes (the likes of Parry, Whitlock and even Jackson seem too “comfortable” to make Lent sombre enough. And much as I like the Bednall Toccata on Aberystwyth, I don’t play flashy toccatas in Lent.
For Palm Sunday the 3 pieces are all are based on hymns for the Liturgy of the Palms rather than the Liturgy of the Passion which is the 2nd and main part of the service. Yet they seem more suitable for post-service voluntaries, though I certainly wouldn’t play the ebullient Prelude by Alan Bullard after a Palm Sunday service.
The Hakim and Moore variations look good (especially for recital use). Not sure about the Briggs.
I won’t throw away my copies of Trevor’s “Seasonal Choral Preludes” and Marsden-Thomas’s “The Church’s Year” just yet.
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For those who have not yet read through the programme, perhaps I should point out that John Mander, our host, will himself will be presenting an illustrated talk "An Organ Builder's Experiences" and this would be a great opportunity to show him our support.
John
I went to last year's event at Bloomsbury and will be going again to this one. Enough activity to make it worth the journey to London.
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I would be interested to learn the origin of the Sesquialtera II on the (Dublin) Solo Organ. It is not listed as a 1963 addition in any stop-list which I have consulted.
It was a glockenspiel in 1902. I assume a mixture rather than bells
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Exactly. At weddings they'll happily chatter (or worse) while the organ is playing, but the moment some bint in a tight dress gets up and caterwauls into a microphone, out of tune and in a mid-Atlantic accent (without accompaniment, of course), they will whoop, cheer, applaud and go generally ape. I'm only surprised that they're not so ape that they scratch under their armpits.
I tried to "like this" but apparently I've "exceeded my quota of positive votes for today" - which is obviously none.
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As I heard it, the layclerks told one of their number that they would indeed shout "B*****ks" at the end, but in fact they didn't shout anything at all, leaving the poor butt of the joke to shout it on his own. This was indeed alleged to have taken place in a cathedral in Kent, but not Rochester. I like the idea of this version.
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Bad news about Ripon's Choir School:
Llandaff Cathedral
in General discussion
Posted
How does this compare to, say, St Alban's?