sbarber49
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Posts posted by sbarber49
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To anyone aware of this and with eyes to see, there is no possible doubt that Benson's service is loosely based on the service of Matins as it would have been performed on major feast days in the Sarum rite. That is why it has nine lessons, why they are read in ascending order of rank from chorister to bishop/dean and why each lesson is followed by a musical response (the carol taking the place of the Respond/Responsory).
Ah, I didn't know that matins had 9 lessons.
A. C. Benson said, "My father arranged from ancient sources a little service for Christmas Eve — nine carols and nine tiny lessons, which were read by various officers of the Church, beginning with a chorister, and ending, through the different grades, with the Bishop." The service also included a sermon.
So can I then assume that you have a sermon at your carol service?
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We had only SEVEN lessons (as, indeed we do every year) with 5 congregational carols/hymns and 7 choir carols. Left enough time for a mince pie and mulled wine before dinner. As far as I am concerned, nine is just a notional number.
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Possibly - apart from that which he wrote for Once in Royal David's City, which I find to be repetitive, dull, foursquare and greatly inferior to the excellent arrangement by Stephen Cleobury.
I think it's an fine descant which suits both the words (a children's poem) and the simple tune. It's repetitive - nothing wrong with that per se (and matches the tune) and simple, so that wonderful, gentle clash for "stars" as the descant creeps above the melodic horizon is particularly effective.
The Willcocks one that I don't think works is the one for While Shepherds watched - unless perhaps it's sung much more slowly than is the current taste.
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<sigh>
Here we go again. Wonderful piece, but this is too fast for me with lots of snatched notes in the obbligato. Of course it shouldn't be stodgy, but was Bach really such a flippant person as this? But it's the current fashion and no doubt I'm the only soldier in step.
Yes, too fast - especially shows in the more complex chorus parts, I think. It's such a wonderful performance, though, it very nearly convinces me.
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Had menat to mention this earlier, but what does everybody do in something as mundane as Jesu Joy in the accomp? As a boy, our choirmaster religiously played the two quavers to clash with the three in the obbligato oboe melody. My personal opinion is driven by the speed that you take it at. Again, you're at the mercy of the conductor, but I have occasionally (when forced to play at a very leisurely tempo) done the same thing. My own preference for speed is a brisker dance-like three in a bar, where the class of 2 against three is so close together, that I do end up 'swinging' the quavers.
Not to mention In Dulci Jubilo in the Orgelbüchlein!
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O how I remember those arguments in Early Music (c early 90s?) about the dot. We should however remember that there is no such thing, documented or otherwise, as double dotting. Over dotting, yes; a flexible dot, yes, but nothing in the contemporary treatise about double dotting. Having continuoed for numerous Messiahs, I mental sigh appears in my mind when the conductor (fresh from some trendy recording) asks that the orchestra double dot, it shows a lack of any scholarly preparation on behalf of the maestro.
I'm not sure what the difference between over dotting and double dotting is. Surely if I tell an orchestra to double-dot the opening of Messiah they know exactly what I mean: lengthen the dotted notes and shorten the succeeding ones. Everyone who's ever opened Watkins Shaw knows that they weren't written as such (and I'm sure that includes Guilmant's trendy conductors and maestri).
I didn't know, though, that what I call "double-dotting" was going out of fashion again - I can't keep up any longer.
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Bédard: Postlude on "Il est né". (Also comes with a lovely prelude on the Huron Carol. (Get it from RSCM)
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As I stated, it is almost always voiced much too quietly. (Coupling it to a Choir Organ consisting of 8ft. and 4ft. flutes, an 8ft. Viola da Gamba and a Clarinet is of little help.)
Of course one would not wish to design an organ around one piece - that is why I included the words 'for example'. I have no wish to resurrect the earlier discussion regarding whether or not one should make clavier changes when playing Bach, but I do not personally regard this as the only piece of Bach (for example) which works well with clavier changes.
The Great chorus should, presumably, be a fairly light one, bearing in mind Bach specified Oberwerk and Ruckwerk rather than Hauptwerk. (Or was that to separate the sound spatially?)
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I am lucky enough to play a tonally unaltered Harrison from 1917 - albeit one of only 3 manuals and moderate size in a parish church. It was left unfinished, sadly, so the Pedal Reed and Great mixture are "prepared for" (the mixture would have been a harmonics, so wouldn't have been much use for Bach anyway).
The more I play the organ, the more I love it.
It's clearly not a baroque organ (!), but you can play Bach on it perfectly well. The Great Small open, and 4' and 2' principals gives a good, bright sound. The swell to mixture (and octave) can be coupled and the Great 12th added for a fuller pleno (Great 16' is too big and Choir 16' too small!). There is no chance of an independent pedal, of course, but it sounds a lot better than many of the shrieking-mixture neo-baroque things.
As for the Dorian - much as I like it, you can't build an organ just for this piece! (Anyway what's wrong with swell to mixture + octave for the secondary chorus?)
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.... but cofess all who had O Come O Come Emmanuel this mornng......
Me!
I played the Postlude on Sleepers Wake by Miles l'A Martin afterwards, from A Marsden Thomas's Graded Anthology Book 4. Does anyone have a Grade 4 standard pupil who can play this?
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In the 1960s there was an organist at St Andrew's Worthing (John Partridge) who each year during Lent voluntarily banned himself from using one of the three manuals on the magnificent Hunter organ there so that one year he would avoid using the Choir, the next year the Great and the next year the Swell.
The reeds were not used during Lent in St George's Windsor in Sir Walter Parrott's time.
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The rubber is a wonderful thing...
Provided thet none of the bits fall on the keys.
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Hmmm.... an impasse....
Perhaps a tiny bit of artistic licence in the telling of the story!
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He may have been referring to the instrument as it was prior to the 1965 rebuild, when the G.O. had fifteen stops (including three Open Diapason ranks and two 4ft. chorus stops). The Tuba was on a higher pressure (to which I believe it has since been restored) and the general effect was probably somewhat fuller.
If this was the instrument to which he referred, then the assistant in question was probably Christopher Gower - Paul Morgan would not have gulped at anything.
I don't think Christopher is a gulper either!
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The carol I think is the most unfortunate verbally is "This is the truth".
Because several verses are normally omitted, verse 2 ends "Woman was made with man to dwell." And verse 3 begins: "Thus we were heirs to endless woes,"
Nobody ever seems to see anything wrong with it!
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I got a CD today which deserves a mention here:
http://www.pipeworksfestival.com/heritage.html
This organ was the last big one by Henry Willis I, "Father Willis".
It dates 1900, and has fully pneumatic action.
I did not know about it and it comes with a surprise: it would be
untouched since then !
Pierre
Yes, it's a wonderful organ in a good acoustic. The cathedral is a bit like a miniature version of King's College, Cambridge, but the organ is on the West wall so speaks well.
Mind you, I haven't heard it since about 1960!
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I am not sure, its a long time since I listened to them. I believe it was one of the last recordings Michael Woodward made, and went straight to CD, i think. Priory have re issued all of his previous work from vinyl, so not too sure what will happen to this little gem. And the organ sounds very good (well to my ears) and as usual the sleeve notes are excellent and include the registrations used.
Peter
Sorry, I was attempting a witticism - dangerous on the internet!
You had said they were by Peter le Hurray (he was Huray, with only one "r", and clearly NOT in a hurry).
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What about Peter le Hurrays version from catherines??? college in cambridge, they are very good
Peter
Are they very quick ones?
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Hear, hear!
I agree: hear, hear.
Although if "Swing low" is to be performed because it's a rugby song - then I'm not so keen, though I'd do it.
If it's as a spiritual then it's highly appropriate, even if, for me, it's not quite up there with the B minor Mass as a musical experience.
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CD Sheet Music www.cdsheetmusic.com has a good lot of music available, which is reproduced from what must be out-of-copyright plates. The editions are often poor, but they're good enough for reference when researching something new to learn, or the occasional last-minute request. And you can make as many prints as you like.
Not all is out of copyright in the UK, though. For example there is music by Dupré on one of the organ Cds.
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It is interesting that all of this seems to have happened in a very short period of time.
Whatever happened to the fine old art of pulling out stops by hand?
I wonder if cathedral organists used to treat the notes much more freely when they accompanied. I don't see how else they could have managed the stop changes. Nowadays we're so hung up on dotting every i and crossing every t all the registration aids are essential.
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musicroom.com is your friend... http://www.musicroom.com/se/ID_No/023251/details.html
But don't forget Roger Molyneaux (http://www.usedorganmusic.co.uk)
He has it for £5
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Are you saying you actually recognised it as Widor 6? I think Mr Marshall needs to get his accelerator pedal seen to.
Did anyone else think that the Bach D major after choral evensong this week was pretty speedy?
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Is there a 'budget' system available or anything less expensive?
We need one at a church where I'm DOM, as the console is in a loft and viewing the conductor is not easy. We did have an old black and white CCTV system but the previous organist (an odd chap apparently) ripped all the wires out and smashed the cameras.
Sam Austin
I wouldn't have thought you could get much cheaper than Bombarde32's suggestion at Post 6. Don't forget ebay. Have you got an electrician in the congregation?
Kings Nine Lessons
in The Organ
Posted
If you mean the one that was broadcast this year, then give me the Willcocks any time. I like a descant to add something to a hymn, not destroy it.