Barry Oakley
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Posts posted by Barry Oakley
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Thank you for this information, which is the sort of thing I need in the absence of company records and such. Jimmy Taylor was indeed enormously talented, as the organ at St Bride's, Fleet Street demonstrates.
In fact, John Compton must have 75 years old at the time; though he did live on to the ripe old age of 91.
What else do we know of Jimmy Taylor, because his input was absolutely vital so far as I can work out?
He was taking out patents even in the early years of Compton, but as his name didn't appear on the company logo, we tend to forget about him.
Perhaps the company should have been styled The Compton & Taylor Organ Company.
MM
Sorry to correct your undoubted knowledge, MM, but John Compton actually died in 1957 which would have made him 81. As I understand it he took considerable interest (although not actively) in the work at Hull City Hall when he was around 76.
PS. I knew Jimmy Taylor also died in the 1950's but at the time of posting the above, but could not remember the exact year. In fact it was only a year later than Compton and (by today's standards) at the young age of 66. I have often reflected that had Jimmy Taylor lived at least into his 70's then perhaps the company would not have suffered the collapse that it did. Although I was in my last year at school when the Hull project was coming to its glorious fruition, I felt privileged to have met and spoken to him many times when the work was taking place. Indeed, were it not for my late father, through my interest and contact with him I was all set to become an apprentice with the company with organ lessons thrown in as well.
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Thanks for the interesting reply; much of the content being buried somewhere in my data collection on Compton. I sense that Compton was at his very best when he was re-building organs, and had a good basis on which to build. That is very much the case with Hull City Hall, Trinity Hull, Ilkley and even Wakefield among others. The dividing line seems to be the inheritance of an indpendent Swell Organ (at the least), and as I know the organ at Ilkley possibly better than most, I can vouch for the fact that the new and old blend wonderfully. A smallish church with a 53 speaking stop organ, would normally be a recipe for something totally over-bearing, but it is just loud enough and contains voices of great subtlety. It is also one of the few non-concert or cathedral organs to include the 32ft Polyphone, and it's only a short 11 mile hop to go and investigate. Additionally, the Ilkley organ has the most exquisite English oak twin-cases, carved by the fanous "mouseman" Robert Thompson of Kilburn. The church furnishings and organ cases are worth a trip on their own.
http://www.ilkleypc.co.uk/index.php?page=organ
Diverting slightly, I recall sitting in a nice cafe in Settle, North Yorkshire, where all the dining furniture was by the "mouseman," and with a pen and a piece of paper, I priced up the modern-day value of it new. I recall spluttering in disbelief, when the furniture turned out to be worth more than the builidng!!!!
Of course, the compton legacy continued after the company folded, but in the southern hemisphere. However, that's something I have still to investigate fully.
The decline of the company has a certain irony, for they were on the cusp of something remarkable, in that they had made enormous strides in electrone design. At the time of the opening of the Festival Hall, a Compton electronic was installed, and it was considered so good by some, including the Rector of St Bride's, Fleet Street, that the original proposal was to have one installed at that particular church. Fortunately, good sense prevailed, and possibly the finest pure Compton organ ever built now graces this lovely Wren church. That was, of course, post John Compton, who was not around to see or hear it.
Strangely enough, the work of Compton is not really the problem at the moment, The main problem surrounds those early years, when he entered into partnership with others, before going solo. Perhaps we will never know all the influences which shaped his remarkable experiments in tonal synthesis, but it is worth having a stab at it until I know that the secrets died with him.
What I can say by way of anecdote, is that even in those early years, he had hopped onto a remarkable bus in the company of other "technocrats," and what they achieved together was remarkable, if currently deeply unfashionable.
I suspect that beneath the introvert eccentricity of John Compton, there dwelt an intellectual tiger with a voracious appetite.
MM
John Compton was certainly hands-on during the rebuilding and enlargement of Holy Trinity, Hull, circa 1937/38. But Hull City Hall, the rebuilding and enlargement
of the war damaged 1911 Forster & Andrews in 1950/51, was entirely under the direction of the equally talented Jimmy Taylor. At that time John Compton was a sick man and the John Compton Organ Company was under the control of JT.
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Hi
There's no listing of Compton material at the British Organ Archive - although there may be some stuff that hasn't yet reached the on-line index.
Much of R&D's archive was destroyed by them immediately before Willis took possession of the factory in Liverpool (which was supposed to have been sold complete with contents from what I heard). What remains of those archives is still with the Willis company.
The lack of archival material is one thing that will make writing the full Compton story somewhat difficult!
Every Blessing
Tony
Some years ago I enquired of Alistair Rushworth if R&D had any historical Compton documents. His answer was in the negative although he suggested I made contact with some of the ex Compton people (a very few) who were working for him out in the field. It led nowherevoicer and of those I managed to speak with their comments were more of an anecdotal nature. The most interesting person I was finally able to speak with was the wife of Frank Hancock, Compton's former head reed voicer.
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. . . Off topic, but if I can put in a plug for a new CD from Chester, Priory have just brought one out on which Philip Rushforth plays the Whitlock Sonata, I'm not an expert but I don't think I've ever heard it performed better.
I have always rated Philip very highly ever since I first heard him when he was sub-organist at Southwell many years ago. I rate him much, much higher than his step-father.
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. . .Now I don't know how Marcussen were briefed, and whether attention was drawn to the acoustic nature of the building beforehand, but if not, the problems associated with the instrument can probably be layed at the door of the architect/designers rather than the organ-consultant. (I have no idea who that was). Of course, when it comes to contracts and buildings, the usual thing is for everything to made off site, delivered and then installed within a specific time-period. That further complicates the issue, and makes experimental tests almost impossible. . .
MM
Correct me if I'm wrong and I apologise if I am, but something nudges my memory to reflect that Thomas Trotter was involved in a consultancy capacity. I'm not sure if he contributes to this forum but it would be interesting if he could shed some light.
But on the matter of Bridgewater's main purpose and in view of the fact that it was well publicised beforehand that the hall was to become the new home of the Halle, I would have thought that music should have been the deciding factor for the architects and acousticians.
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In my view, there's the problem. My belief is that you simply don't put anything on paper - even so much as a stoplist on a fag packet - until the site and the room and the furnishings are in place and can be experienced. When you can get a feel for the building with its actual carpets and winter coats - and other moveable forces such as pianos and orchestras have begun to find out about unexpected dead spots - then you begin to think about scaling, floorplan and grid layout. You do some test notes. Then you begin, having given artistic instinct (which is the hallmark of any fine organ) a reasonable chance to prevail.
The point this topic has reached reminds me of the apparent situation that occurred at Sheffield City Hall in the early 1930’s. Designed by Bairstow and built by Willis III, the organ was a big disappointment to designer and organ builder when the hall was finally opened and the organ heard for the first time. I suspect the circumstances were not dissimilar to the Bridgewater Hall inasmuch that at Sheffield the organ was designed when the hall was in its embryonic stage, perhaps even at a drawing board stage. Having a typical concert hall stoplist the organ remains acoustically dead to this day and accounts for why it is rarely heard as a recital instrument.
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Won't bother- methinks t'will all be far too fast as usual!!
CP
Emphaticaly agreed! And what's the betting he's planted someone in the audience who suggests he improvises on a Gershwin theme?
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Whilst it is good to read that this instrument is to be restored to working order, I would be interested to learn why it is planned to return it to its 1876 stoplist. Is is because too much has been crammed into the chamber over the years, making maintenance difficult (or perhaps, in some cases, impossible) - or is it simly another manifestation of the trend to try to re-create a 'historical' copy of something, in order to satisfy the hstorians?
On the face of it, returning the instrument to its original stoplist* looks to be a retrograde step; a number of possibly useful 'colour' ranks will be lost - not least the quieter Pedal stop. Or were the Conacher additions tonally unsuitable (a rather subective term, in any case) - or unsatisfactory?
For example, whilst the G.O. will regain its compound stop†, it will lose a Bourdon - albeit a C13 rank. The Swell Organ will lose the string, its companion Céleste, the 4ft. Flute § and the Cornoflute. Instead, on this instrument there will subsequently be three Stopped Diapason ranks.
Yes, it is good that an instrument which is, I believe, in a largely unplayable state is to be restored to workinf order - but I find it hard to believe that whoever has decided on the course of action to be taken has thought through all the implications of this choice.
* I use the term stoplist deliberately. It would be well-nigh impossible to return the instrument to its original state. Is it knowm whether or not there is anyone alive who would have heard or played it prior to its rebuilding in the 1930s? If not, unless the original plans are still in existence, much reliance on conjecture would surely be necessary. In any case, the original voicer is now long-dead, so this vital link is also unavailable.
† Is there still in existence a record of the original composition of this stop, together with the scheme of breaks?
§ With the loss of the Choir 4ft flute as well, there will then no longer be a stop of this type at this pitch - yet there will be three principal-toned stops - has anyone really thought about the musicality and practicality of this proposed scheme - or are they blinded by an ardent desire to create anew something 'historical'?
A contradiction in terms, if ever there was one....
I have to agree with most of what you say, pcnd. There was some, shall I say, difference of opinion when this project kicked off under the direction of William McVicker. When I was in touch with the late Freddie Meynell I understood the prime objective of the church was to get the organ playing again using the stoplist as it presently stands. But as Freddie said to me, “It is a gallon in a pint pot.” I’ve never had the privilege of peering into the restricted chamber and from what I gather the tuner’s physique needed to be that of an anorexic. It is questionable as to whether in the first place (1876) this was the correct choice of organ for Hoar Cross. But with Bangor Cathedral hanging a price tag of £25 from the case it was probably seen as a bargain not to be missed.
I am unsure if the present benefactor’s gift is further enhanced by a grant, but there are more than a few instances of grant awarding organisations insisting on what can only be retrograde steps.
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The organ at Holy Angels, Hoar Cross, Staffordshire, is to be restored by Bishops to the 1876 specification, thanks to a donation by a generous benefactor. Dismantling is scheduled to happen during early 2012.
http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi...ec_index=N05336
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That is sad. (BTW, he came here last year - http://www.mander-organs.com/discussion/in...ost&p=53447 )
Yes indeed. I had been in touch with Freddie on a number of occasions after he announced on this forum the news of the organ's possible restoration, the last time being in May. I was only thinking earlier today about the project and the fact that I had not heard from him since that time when I discovered he had sadly died.
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I heard today that Freddie Meynell, a descendant of the family who built the wonderful Holy Angels Church at Hoar Cross, Staffordshire, had died in May. He was active at the time in assisting the planning of the restoration of the 3-manual 1779 Samuel Green organ, originally installed in Bangor Cathedral. The organ was installed at Hoar Cross in 1876 by J C Bishop. Ironically, a contract for its restoration is presently being negotiated with Bishop & Sons and it is anticipated the work will be completed in a couple of years time. Sadly, Freddie Meynell will not see it come to life again.
The present organ, housed in a beautiful case attributed to Bodley, has been worked on and enlarged by a number of organ builders over the years, including Bishop, Conacher Sheffield, and, more latterly, until the early 1980's (when it became unplayable) by Rushworth & Dreaper.
I'm am unsure if it will be restored as it is or according to the original Samuel Green specification.
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Paul Derrett ("Cynic") is giving a recital tomorrow, Tuesday, 6 September, on the organ of Oxford Town Hall - 1pm to 2pm.
Programme: (as published)
Elgar - Pomp and Circumstance March No.4
Bach - Toccata ad Fugue in D Minor (Dorian)
SS Wesley - Andante in G
Alcock - Introduction and Passacaglia
S Clarke - Vienna March
Dubois - Fiat Lux
Dupre - Prelude and Fugue in D Minor
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Has anyone mentioned Hull City Hall yet? There's a Tuba that one dare not use except as a solo stop, and then only fleetingly. (And don't even think about adding it to a chorus: you will probably blast a hole in the walls!) Of course, said instrument boasts an array of impressive and characterful reedwork, so that one is spoilt for choice when it comes to big noises.
Yes, I did when I referred to Holy Trinity, Hull (24 August), and then went on to suggest that a couple of minutes up Whitefriargate there is an "exquisite Orchestral Trumpet". When I made my suggestions I was not thinking particularly of loudness but more of voicing; although Holy Trinity and the City Hall organs combine voicing with power.
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St. Michael's Cornhill has a good tuba and it's a fun one to play. If I remember rightly it speaks quite clearly down the north aisle, and you hear it much better from the west wall than the console.
The organ in the City Temple (Holborn viaduct) has some excellent reeds on it. The tuba is exciting there. The pedal ophicleide makes its presence known more though- quite thunderous.
I'm going to nominate Holy Trinity, Hull. Compton produced exquisite reeds and those at HT were voiced by the legendary Billy Jones.
And a couple of minutes up Whitefriargate there's another Compton gem in the form of an Orchestral Trumpet.
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I am not going to make any comment at all.....unusually.
Just listen to the videos below and tell us what you think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_av-awc4I4c
http://www.youtube.com/user/Organistcompos...u/2/5UbhPx3O6SU
http://www.youtube.com/user/Organistcompos...u/1/QgkGZDwlP6I
MM
Played with outstanding panache. I like!
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I suspect it's the wrong branch of the same clan!
Sir Alexander McDonald who gave the huge 4 manual organ to Rudston Parish Church, where he was organist for over 40 years, was a member of the McDonald's of Sleat whose home, since about 1847, has been in Yorkshire - at Thorpe Hall, Rudston.
I knew the organ in the very early 1970's when it was a large two-manual. Since then I notice that a choir organ has been added 'in the style of the orginal' as well as swell and pedal reeds. The church is tiny, full organ must be deafening, and the organ case completely covers the West wall of the church. On entering the building you are immediately confronted by this large organ case which, I understand, suffered bomb damage during the 2nd world war. The console is in the chancel and, in truth, the instrument is 'nothing special' save that it must be one of the largest village organs in the land! (dangerous statement!)
It might be 'nothing special' but it's well worth a visit for members of the board who might be on their way to organ recitals at Bridlington Priory. Going along the A614 Driffield to Bridlington road turn left at Burton Agnes, just before the hall. Rudston village is three miles down this road. The benefice of Rudston, Carnaby, Boynton and Kilham has the incumbent living at Rudston - the vicarage is opposite the church. In previous times I was always made to feel very welcome when calling in.
Many years ago I knew the Rudston PC organist that I referred to in an earlier posting on this topic and he once allowed me to enter the organ chamber. As you say, it is a very large organ for a village church, the expansive case occupying just about every bit of available space on the west wall. What struck me about the sound that egressed from the organ was that it had a rather muffled quality and lacked, to my ears, clarity. Having seen inside the chamber I was rather under the impression that the instrument had fallen foul of the whims of an organist with a desire to have almost every tone colour at his disposable yet had little understanding of practicalities and pipe speech. It epitomised the expression, "quart into a pint pot". IMHO the pipe ranks were too close together, preventing correct speech from getting out. The whole chamber was packed to the gunnels. I would have loathed to have been the tuner.
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Sledemre House in East Yorkshire, not NT or EH but, is owned by the Sykes family. There is a large three manual organ in the Hall which used to be played by the late Sir Richard Sykes on a Sunday afternoon.
I drove past some time ago and there was a sign outside the hall saying that 'the organ is now being played'. There are numerous references to the instrument on the 'net' - it seems it is played nowadays on Wednesdays and Sundays.
There also appears to be a recording made by Simon Lindley available 'only at the house' and I thought, although I may be mistaken, that Francis Jackson recorded some Stanford from there.
http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi...ec_index=D05066
The Sledmere House organ used to be played to the public most Sunday afternoons when the house was open during the season. The person who played it, perhaps still does, was the organist at Rudston parsh church not far from Bridlington.
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Not far from where I live is the rather splendid Sandon Hall, twixt Stone and Rugeley, in which there is a house organ. I'm afraid I know nothing about its pedigree and neither is it listed.
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A large 3m Gray and Davison, in the miniature cathedral chapel of Clumber Park , a NT property in Notts.
http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi...ec_index=A00709
When the Chapel was built the Duke of Newcastle established a Choir School and hired domestic and ground staff who could sing in the back rows.
It's a beautifully-sounding instrument that was last worked on, I believe, by H&H. My late friend, Peter Goodman, the former city organist at Hull, played it quite regularly on Wednesday afternoons when he lived at nearby Worksop.
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"...They got five pounds each for this, but I didn't charge anything. In one case, where the groom had been a chorister at Ripon, I got a couple of bottles of decent wine..."
I know times have changed, but when I was a boy chorister at Holy Trinity, Hull, in the late 40's early 50's we received the sum of 2/6d for a wedding (3 bob for a funeral). In those days marriage in church really meant something (they tended to last) and I remember being selected to sing at eight weddings (yes, eight weddings) on one Saturday, receiving the enormous sum of £1:00. I don't know what the organist's fee would have been.
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Brethren... Our new organ is installed, but has arrived minus one essential: a mirror. I have asked for a price for the said mirror and am STAGGERED to be told that a console top mirror will be £450!!!! Cor blimey!! Think of a number!!! Do they really cost that much???
We only need 100 of them and we could have another new organ and still have change to buy a car and some fish and chips....Have you thought of trying Wilkinsons?
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It has been drawn to our attention that that recording of the Bingham Prom peformance has been posted on-line without the permission of composer, publisher, performer or the BBC, which means that it is illegal. Infringement of copyright.
I understand that, in due course, there will be a commercial recording that will be available for download from the web.
Moderator, Mander Organs
If the recording was made available by the BBC online and therefore placed in the public domain, and given that the forum member rightfully drew attention to the BBC, the performer and composer, I would have thought it did not contravene copyright. People are cutting, pasting and recording from the radio and television all the time.
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You'll need very good speakers for this recording, which I find a bit strange. The microphone placing is so obviously close, the organ balance is all over the place, and in the "Weinen Klagen" there is real-time sighing in evidence. The wind-noise from the 32ft front pipes is quite disconcerting, but my words, my studio monitors had to work hard with those bottom notes of the 64ft resultant!
As for Heart FM, don't knock it. They do a fine 70's disco night on Fridays.
There I am, moon-walking around the room with the vacuum cleaner and a duster.........
MM
Has anyone yet developed speakers that will accurately handle, and I mean accurately handle, 32ft pitch at bottom C (pedal) let alone 64ft? I have some excellent speakers that I can link to my laptop but they could not handle the RAH resultant down at the bottom end.
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I think I am just old-fashioned but it would never occur to me to take liquid into an organ loft, especially were I visiting a church/cathedral to play for a service.
Not only would the consequences of spilling liquid over the console be dreadful (I expect) but I should never live it down.
Having said that I have seen evidence of bottled water (i.e. empty bottles in the waste bin) in one cathedral, and one other place even has a kettle in the loft plus coffee and coffeemate. This leads me to believe that I am far too uptight about this.
But which of you actually drink when seated at the console?
Time to fess up.
You can go a whole lot stronger on the Sixsmith rebuild of the 4-manual Hill organ at St Paul's, Newcastle-under-Lyme. Draw the Tibia Liquida and it opens up a cavern of miniatures and lead crystal glasses above the left-hand stop jambs.
We only need 100 of them and we could have another new organ and still have change to buy a car and some fish and chips....
John Compton
in Nuts and bolts
Posted
It seems that my recent response to your posting, MM, strangely did not appear on the forum. I can't think why. However I have recently gone through the NPOR listings for Compton, looking at the prodigious amount of work attributed to Compton. The company was certainly very active on organs for cinemas and churches prior to and after the Second World War. Throughout the 1950's and into the 1960's a lot of work is attributable to Compton, but I wonder how accurate the NPOR site is. There are a couple of entries for Compton in the early 1970's and both are electronic. There's even one for 1980, Raleigh Road URC, Richmond, Yorks, but it looks as though it's probably a 1950's unit/extension organ installed from elsewhere by amateurs.