Barry Oakley
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Posts posted by Barry Oakley
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Was given to understand yesterday evening that a memorial concert to Peter is being given this evening (Saturday 3 July) in Holy Trinity Parish Church, Hull. Sorry I don't know the time it commences.
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Curious to know what has happened to Philip Scriven. Has he been appointed elsewhere? His organ playing was of the first order but I did hear rumblings some time ago that the lay vicars were not particularly impressed with his choral direction.
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Please forgive the slightly off-topic post, as the piece in question is unaccompanied, and therefore not strictly organ-related.
I'm trying to get my head round the (to me, at least) weird text of this piece which we sang today ("Him holy, in him abide...").
I must confess that "Him holy" reminds me of "Me Tarzan, you Jane", or the sort of speech attributed to Red Indians (sorry - Native Americans) in our childhood comic strips.
Does anyone have a translation (into compehensible English) of this text?
Sounds typical of modern stuff written for CofE liturgy. Seeing that it's apparently written by Mr Bean then perhaps you're not supposed to get your head round it. It's almost akin to text-speak.
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I see their was a rather nice obituary to Stanley Vann in today's Guardian.
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Hi Folks,
does anyone know what the organ in Hull Crem is like as I have been asked to play for a family funeral there next week and it might help to decide the music!
ta
The need for this information is probably no longer required, but I have established from an elderly friend (Wilf Jones) who has played for funerals at the Chanterlands Avenue Crematorium, Hull, that there are two toasters, an Ahlborn and a Viscount. This undoubtedly explains why nothing is listed on the NPOR.
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How many Crems have a pipeorgan these days or are they all toasters and the Wesley System?
It was a few years ago when I was last there, but one of the eldest of Sheffield's crems on City Road did have a pipe organ. I think it was maybe by Albert Keats.
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I hope when the organ is restored in Hull Parish Church that the Compton lighted stops will remain, the only other instrument I can recall with these is Downside Abbey.
One thought regarding the much-needed restoration of the F&A/Compton organ in Holy Trinity Parish Church, Hull, is to renovate the existing Compton console and transfer it to a new location in the quire. Combined with this thought is the construction of a new portable console for use in the nave, making it particularly suitable for recitals. If this should happen it's probably likely that it would be equipped with drawstops and state-of-the-art registration aids.
The location of the existing Compton console is not ideal for accompanying services held in the quire. However, since I was last in Holy Trinity I noticed to my horror that twang-and-bang equipment was now in evidence in the quire.
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I am an unashamed admirer of the workmanship and tonal genius of John Compton and the organ of Hull City Hall is an instrument I hold in the highest regard. Indeed, as a teenager in the early 50’s I was fortunate (and privileged) to frequently observe its rebuilding in the hall. Unfortunately, I no longer live near enough to regularly enjoy such a wonderful creation.
Compton transformed the original F&A instrument of 1911, essentially adding a positive division and substantially increasing its power. F&A organs have something of a reputation of being more gentle than powerful, something Compton rectified in this instance. But that’s not to say the instrument is incapable of now speaking in a gentle fashion.
As far as the 1980’s changeover to drawstops is concerned, as one contributor has said, they were no longer available in the original (a Compton creation) form. Compton was a man who if he had an idea and it was not available on the market, he would make it. I guess if he were around today he would be using stopheads based on LED illumination. I know when I spoke to the late Peter Goodman on the matter of Compton luminous stops he did express a preference for conventional drawstops. I rather fancy that for a man of his somewhat diminutive stature they were something to hold on to.
As for R&D’s involvement it does rather annoy me to see their nameplate on the console, grossly overshadowing those of F&A and Compton as though it was one of their organs. Not wishing to take anything away from F&A, I maintain it is essentially Compton.
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The only major change at Hull, so far as I know, was the addition of extra swell louvres. The Swell was always a little weak, as was typical of the Forster & Andrews style and that of many of their contemporaries. (Terraced dynamics - think perhaps Schulze influence).
It was a pity about the Compton stops and console mechanism, but I suspect that it would have been very expensive to refurbish.
Still, we should be grateful that Compton's far superior tonal work was retained, and the result is there for all to hear.
I used to play this instrument fairly often, and it is really quite spectacular.
I think Carlo Curley once said, (before they fitted carpets and damaged the acoustic somewhat), that it was one of the loudest organs in the world.
Many said it could be heard at King George Dock a mile away, but I think they were telling porkie pies.
It COULD be heard over the noise of traffic in the city streets below!!!!!
MM
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I wonder if 40 years isn't something of a record; though it probably isn't.
MM
I think David Gedge has the edge.
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He was incredibly helpful when I first had to grapple with the organ at Hull City Hall, and he not only gave me many tips about the effect of the organ in the hall, (much louder than at the console), but spent quite some time suggesting this or that detail, and even an internal tour of the instrument, of which he was justifiably proud, even if it was starting to show its age.
There was a greater appreciation of the organ's power by the player when the moveable Compton console could be sited near the front of the stage. Pop music was largely the cause of the console becoming fixed virtually underneath the pipework.
Many was the time we sat together at the Town Hall recitals, and what always struck me was the sheer popularity of Peter. Everyone who knew Peter loved him and liked him without exception.
The interesting thing about Peter’s playing was not his absolute accuracy. He could wander and make mistakes, (as we all do), but what marked Peter out was his total musicianship. I recall, I think, Andrew Leach (the former assistant at Beverley), saying that Peter never made mistakes, he simply improved the music!
That's absolutely correct. Peter would agree to that.
There was more than a hint of truth in that I suspect, because Peter’s recitals always remained memorable.
At his very best, he was quite stunning, and his recording from the City Hall of one of the Guilmant Sonatas (2nd?), was almost definitive. It was released on the Vista label, and it is one the few organ LP’s I still cherish.
So another sad day it is, but again, a relatively long life, a fulfilled life and one which gave great pleasure to so many. RIP.
When I last visited Peter in Spain he loaned me a digital transcript of his recording that includes the Cook voluntary and which uses the City Hall's wonderful orchestral trumpet. Recently I gave a copy to Michael Rhodes, the custodian of Hanley's Victoria Hall organ (where I shall be going very soon today) and he was struck by Peter's playing and the seamless registration.
MM
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No sooner have we learned of the death of Stanley Vann when yet another eminent organist takes leave of this life. Peter Goodman, Mus.B., FRCO, ARCM, the former City Organist of Hull, died at his Puerto Rey home, Spain, on Wednesday. 7th April. He was 88 and had been diagnosed with cancer earlier this year.
Born in Bexley Heath, he became perhaps the youngest person to play the BBC organ when he appeared on BBC Children’s’ Hour with Uncle Mac. At the time he was a boy chorister at New College, Oxford.
He later went on to become an organ scholar at Gonville & Caius College, Cambridge. Most notable amongst his tutors were (Sir) Harold Darke and (Sir) George Thalben Ball. For a time he was an assistant organist at Kings College Chapel, Cambridge.
Peter arrived in Hull during the early 1950’s at the age of 29 to become Organist and Master of Choristers at Holy Trinity Parish Church, inheriting a choir acknowledged to be of cathedral standard and the UK’s largest parish church organ. He had previously held a similar post at Guildford Pro Cathedral.
Later during the 1950’s he was appointed City Organist on the death of Norman Strafford, his predecessor at Holy Trinity and also architect of the rebuilt City Hall organ by Compton. It was a post he held for around 35 years, giving regular recitals, and becoming at the time the longest serving civic organist. I was privileged to be his console assistant when he gave his last major public recital in the UK on the organ of Leeds Town Hall.
Peter Goodman made many radio broadcasts and was a leading figure in musical circles in Hull and the East Riding of Yorkshire. He resurrected the Hull Bach Choir and was closely associated with Hull Choral Union.
All Peter’s children who survive him, Wendy (cello), Jennifer (clarinet), Malcolm (French horn) and Roy, the well-known conductor, all followed their parents by studying at the Royal College of Music.
Peter was a warm, generous and friendly man, much admired and esteemed by all who knew him. He will be greatly missed by his family and by his many friends here in the UK and Spain.
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I wasn't able to hear the Radio 3 broadcast from Wakefield until to-day (Sunday), but as always, the standard was high.
Jonathan Bielby seems to have been there since the cathedral had electric-lighting installed, but he certainly has achieved great things there. (35 years as ODM?)
Regarding the organ, it really is a fine sounding instrument, in spite of working against all the odds. I recall going into the organ-chamber with the previous ODM, and he showed me what there was inside. I was expecting much, much more considering the volume of sound.
What I find remarkable about this instrument, is its sheer effectiveness in the rather nicely resonant building. Considering that it is buried away in the North Aisle, (save for the Choir Organ re-installed in the lovely Pearson case in the Choir). Much of the organ is below ground level, and by far the biggest department is the Swell, based on the pipes of the previous instrument; last re-built by Abbott & Smith of Leeds.
People may say what they will about John Compton, but I can honestly say that I've never heard a bad one, and as Henry Willis 3 used to point out, the art of being a good organ-builder is to get consistently good results. (He suggested that Hope-Jones was, for that reason, a very good organ-builder).
In some ways, the organ at Wakefield is the most "American" of our cathedral organs. Lots of derivation and extension of course, but also, quite high pressures throughout. I recall a recital played there by Jane Parker-Smith, and it was just wonderful; the organ certainly not disappointing in any way, even when she played the Durufle Toccata quite brilliantly.
As one of the last remaining Compton cathedral organs which remain very close to what was created, I genuinely love this instrument. It's a fine example of what Compton could do at his very best....and that massive 5-manual console is so, so comfortable to play.
MM
You are absolutely correct about John Compton (and his r/h man Jimmy Taylor). I, too, have never heard a bad one. I rate Compton as something of a genius.
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I wasn't able to hear the Radio 3 broadcast from Wakefield until to-day (Sunday), but as always, the standard was high.
Jonathan Bielby seems to have been there since the cathedral had electric-lighting installed, but he certainly has achieved great things there. (35 years as ODM?)
Regarding the organ, it really is a fine sounding instrument, in spite of working against all the odds. I recall going into the organ-chamber with the previous ODM, and he showed me what there was inside. I was expecting much, much more considering the volume of sound.
What I find remarkable about this instrument, is its sheer effectiveness in the rather nicely resonant building. Considering that it is buried away in the North Aisle, (save for the Choir Organ re-installed in the lovely Pearson case in the Choir). Much of the organ is below ground level, and by far the biggest department is the Swell, based on the pipes of the previous instrument; last re-built by Abbott & Smith of Leeds.
People may say what they will about John Compton, but I can honestly say that I've never heard a bad one, and as Henry Willis 3 used to point out, the art of being a good organ-builder is to get consistently good results. (He suggested that Hope-Jones was, for that reason, a very good organ-builder).
In some ways, the organ at Wakefield is the most "American" of our cathedral organs. Lots of derivation and extension of course, but also, quite high pressures throughout. I recall a recital played there by Jane Parker-Smith, and it was just wonderful; the organ certainly not disappointing in any way, even when she played the Durufle Toccata quite brilliantly.
As one of the last remaining Compton cathedral organs which remain very close to what was created, I genuinely love this instrument. It's a fine example of what Compton could do at his very best....and that massive 5-manual console is so, so comfortable to play.
MM
You are absolutely correct about John Compton (and his r/h man Jimmy Taylor). I, too, have never heard a bad one. I rate Compton as something of a genius.
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How about the fine instrument in St Mary's Beverley? Wonderful to play and hear at the console (about 5 ft from the front pipes) but a great deal of sound is lost 1/3 of the way down the nave. I have very fond memories of this instrument having learnt on it. It has one of the most thrilling 16foot reeds l have ever heard. Also enclosed tubas at 16,8, and 4foot pitches (not extended) which with the box shut could be added to the swell to create a seemingly never ending crescendo. I would be very interested to hear others oppinions on this instrument.
William Northmore
I remember this instrument in the early 1950's when Eric Bell was organist there (Simon Bell's grandfather). In fact I was once given a personal demonstration of its capabilities by Eric's predecessor, Harold Malkin, who was then in his 90's. My word he could play. Since then the availability of funds for its upkeep have somewhat diminished and I don't think it's in such good nick these days. I last heard it played by Cynic (PD) a couple of years ago when he made it sound really good. It's had a few emminent organ builders look after it in its day, notably Forster & Andrews and T C Lewis.
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Topic and mention deleted at the request of Mander Organs
Yes, I have to agree, although I do not know what might have caused offence it’s a pity there has been a deletion. If you establish a medium for news and comment, which the Mander Forum is, you have to do it with an essential element of altruism. Providing submissions do not include anything that is slanderous or defames you have to be prepared to wear an altruistic hat.
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Can anyone identofy the theatre organ feautured on the front pageof the Film and Music section of today's Guardian? 5 manual with pedalboard to G; the music desk has "Odean"! on it but no other clue.
Peter
I'm sure it's the Odeon, Leicester Square instrument and if you look carefully on the r/h panel about level with the fifth manual you will see a nameplate stating it is by John Compton.
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. . .The art of registering a large instrument without gadgets is becoming lost. A recent young recitalist at Halifax was heard to gulp and say "I've never played an instrument as big as this without generals". Perhaps our Dutch friends would feel more at home on such an instrument than some of our own organists do!
I quite agree, Nick.
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. . .If I were ever to meet Mr Marshall, I would suggest to him that he takes the 1st 10 mins of a recital to show how clever he is at playing at speed. He could do this on full organ. Then, turn his musicality back on and make sense of the music.
Alan
He does rather have a disposition to be on the dismissive side.
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In my experience, Wayne Marshall always plays fast pieces at break neck speed. I'm afraid if he's on radio or TV I give it a miss, the music loses all feeling. A name to look for, by the way, is Raul Prieto Ramirez, organist at the Madrid Concert Hall, he played a recital at Victoria Hall, Hanley last Saturday and everyone was blown away. It was his first and only recital here but I'm sure we'll see him again. He played his whole programme from memory which included his own arrangemts of some apparently technically difficult Liszt pieces. It was extremely musical and enjoyable. Enter his name on Youtube and you'll see him playing a few pieces including some Liszt.
I normally manage to get to the Victoria Hall recitals, but last Saturday was an exception. Glad to hear it went down well.
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I'm with you David. The programme was varied and entertaining on the whole but I've never heard the first and last movements of Widor 6 played at that speed. I also commented at the time to the people I was with that the pipes weren't having time to speak properly due to the speed of the playing. I like to be impressed by organists with amazing technique and there's nothing wrong with letting rip but at the expense of musicality then I'm not so sure.
Are you saying you actually recognised it as Widor 6? I think Mr Marshall needs to get his accelerator pedal seen to.
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Do you think that if the refurbed organ is put in, they (the abbey) will live with it for a time , before the "hill" is restored, and might just be forgotten about? excuse my ignorance on church matters, but I have never had anything to do with them before. On a side note, my "best friend" was, for a short while, acting organist there, and having a set of keys, was showing a "famous" american organ/recording chap the organ, when the police arrived along with the vicar, they wanted to know what all the noise was (it was the organ playing) about,,,,,, it was about midnight. this is true as well, I heard the recording of the whole thing
PETER
Who on earth knows, Peter. Selby Abbey is a goliath of a building in what is now seemingly a forgotten little slumbering town and where once the only major road through the town heading eastwards towards Hull was the A63, now essentially replaced by the M62. I remember hearing the Selby organ around the time that Fernando Germani made his vinyl recording of the then magnificent Hill organ. It's another sad tale of a leviathan, cathedral specification organ that might never get refurbished. And of course, you know of a similar situation at Holy Trinity, Hull. The Harrogate Harrison hardly seems a worthy substitute.
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The splendid choral evensong today from St. Albans (choir in fine form and didn't the organ sound good too) ended with a Toccata by Simon Preston - I've never come across this piece before. Does anyone here know more please?
A
I was rather struck by the broadcast from St Albans Abbey yesterday afternoon, too. The Simon Preston Toccata was new to me whoever it was that was playing, Tom Wimpenny or Adrian Lucas. One is never sure these days who it is who is playing the voluntary. It used to be the custom for the Master of Music to do so, the sub organist or scholar, whichever, giving way. In this case I have always admired the playing skills of Adrian Lucas and Tom Wimpenny.
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So the RAM does not consider that an English organ builder is competent to build a new organ ?
Disgraceful and disloyal in my opinion.
Colin Richell.
I have written on this sort of topic on a number of occasions. I, too, think that there are far too many new commissions being awarded to foreign builders; so much so that it has become fashionable. When I raised this subject several years ago with an eminent world-class organist (sorry to repeat the point) I was told that it was all to do with repertoire. I did not get the opportunity to challenge this reply. Surely, if a new organ is to be built, particularly in a concert hall or, in this case, the RAM., it is not outside the capabilities of a BRITISH ORGAN BUILDER, to come up with the goods and build an instrument capable of covering all types of repertoire.
James Norrey
in General discussion
Posted
I understand the very talented James Norrey, presently organ scholar at Chelmsford Cathedral, has been appointed Assistant at Llandaff.