Barry Oakley
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Posts posted by Barry Oakley
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Patrick I share your fears! For a start I cannot see how "and with your spirit" is any more meaningful than "and also with you". Does this mean then that only the celebrant has a spirit? As to the music, as one who has done a lot of settings for parish and choir use, I am concerned that the new texts will stifle composers rather than inspire them. I know of nobody who is currently working on music for the new texts (which are not as yet officially released).
From a theological viewpoint I am disturbed by the proposal to restore "for many" at the consecration of the wine. This may be an accurate rendering of "pro multis" but does not convey the meaning of the Hebrew/Aramaic rabin which means many in the sense of the many including the "all".
Back to the music. I trust that the Bishops' Conference will allow the continued use of current settings for at least five years after the change. Watch this space.
Peter
There is, of course, a hark back to former liturgical language in the proposed new liturgy as in "and with thy spirit". To my mind (and to others) the criticism of the present liturgy is that it is somewhat banal. To say, "and also with you" is a bit akin to someone saying "have a nice day" to which often comes the reply, "and the same to you." One must not forget also that at the holy Mass the celebrant is Persona Christi and it is therefore fitting that the spirit of Christ is manifest throughout. But just as the last revision of the Mass was criticised, don't expect things to change when we eventually have the new missal. I'm just grateful that at the monastery where I attend for Mass there's still a great deal of Latin used.
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Perhaps not the ideal time to launch an appeal... or am I just letting the media influence my confidence?
Have to agree wholeheartedly. The legacy of enormous instruments will become an even greater headache than it is now. Little did the benefactors who paid for these organs and when it took 10 men to carry the collection plate to the altar, realise that in the 21st century these churches would have minimal congregations and simply not have the financial clout to easily maintain organs. Has Liverpool tried contacting Sir Fred Goodwin, late of RBS?
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The Ampleforth Trompetta Argentea was also made by Boosey and Hawkes. It is of course not strictly a chamade reed, but in a way I am glad. Without its construction as is, we could never have called it 'The daffodils'.
This remains one of my favourite instruments, early neo baroque JWW without the Downsian oberton, and IMO a perfect marriage of instrument and acoustic. I think it represents a more natural example of the genre developed by the builders without the overbearing influence of a consultant, and is all the better for it.
I have a recording of the Dupre Stations of the Cross played by Simon Wright, a really lovely man, I hasten to add, which is simply stunning.
AJS
I thought Dom Ambrose Wright was the consultant for Ampleforth's organ (and Liverpool's RC Cathedral) Does any know what part he actually played in designing or advising on the construction of these instruments?
I
The Ampleforth organ is also one of my favourites as is the abbey and its surroundings. I've experienced it on many occasions when attending mass and have never found it's timbre less than inspirational. My word, have we not digressed from the topic of Grant, Degens and Bradbeer!
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As I have said elsewhere, Viscount are now in a totally different league to a few years ago.
Do you mean they are now in a league comparable to the Blue Square Premier?
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Yes we have a "family Mass" once a month which sometimes ends up like cabaret with sacraments thrown in as an afterthought. The school runs it; I avoid it. One of my young choristers (aged 10) goes to that school and was told off by a teacher for going to the 11.00 (Sung) Mass rather than the 9.30 (family) Mass. "But I'm in the choir," said young Lydia, and good on you, thought I !!
Peter
I was talking to an abbot recently at a monastic occasion (not at his own abbey) who enquired if the abbey where we were was where I usually attended for mass. I explained that it was as I could not stand the plummeting and banal standards of parish masses. His reply, "I know what you mean."
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I believe there is a book listing all the charitable trusts and what they give grants for. I'm told thast this is a good place to start.
Malcolm
If you look on the George Sixsmith & Son Ltd website I believe there are some suggestions with regard to potential sources for grants.
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Hi
Walkers had a computer-controlled router whe the Cambridge Organists' Assoc. visited - must be getting on for 10 years ago now.
Every Blessing
Tony
Nicholsons made a great play for CAD when they built the new quire organ at Southwell. That must be probably over 10 years ago, too. Using conventional drafting must surely be a painstaking procedure for a builder putting up a scheme, particularly having to draw pipes. I assume that AutoCad comes complete with a library of pipe styles - metal flues, wooden flues and similarly for reeds.
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I endorse many of the earlier comments, Wayne Marshall played all the notes but his performance did nothing for me. I agree the last chord was absurdly long. It was good to see the organ featured in a mainstream concert with a full audience even if it wasn't a work that is likely to attract many new followers.
JC
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Whilst it was great to hear the organ in the opening piece of the opening Prom, I thought Wayne Marshall's performance did an injustice to Messian's composition. As usual, too fast and in some passages, too laboriously slow. I don't think it did anything to endear potential converts to organ music. I wonder if Marshall is trying to emulate Virgil Fox? If so, he has much still to learn.
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I happen to be spending some time in Hull and yesterday went to the City Hall to hear an excellent recital given by Julian McNamara, son of former Labour MP and minister, Kevin McNamara. I was sitting in the audience with “Cynic” and we both agreed that Julian had given a first-class performance of works by J S Bach, Haydn, Lang, Mendelssohn, Widor, Bridge and Elgar. He is currently Director of Music at Woodcote Oratory School. I have to admit that until this recital the name of Julian McNamara would have passed me by. He seems to have no further recitals booked (pity), but if ever he does it would be well worth the time to go and listen to him.
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Please may I not only quote you in future, but request that this text should appear upon my tombstone?
It's the second nicest thing anyone's ever said to me. Want to know the first?
I was sitting in my works van outside the automatic gates at Gloucester Cathedral some years ago. The gates stubbornly refused to open as expected, following which the little man came out of his little cabin and pronounced
'You're not heavy enough.'
I thought, what a nice man!
P.
I can only assume, Paul, it was before you found the excellent "Chez Montanna" at a nearby seaside resort.
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I think the organ Tony Newnham has in mind is (or was) the Compton from the Free Trade Hall in Manchester; it was built shortly after the RFH one and, give or take one or two stops, they were identical. My recollection is that Compton took back the RFH one, not best pleased at the contract for the permanent replacement going – contrary to what he thought he had been given to understand – to another company, and it was broken up in his factory. As Tony says, the FTH console has been recently pressed into service for a Hauptwerk system, but the Compton tone-generators and all the associated electronics have been preserved in full working order and are temporarily in use in a three-manual Compton console.
Regards.
I managed to find a sound track on the web of the FTH organ played cinema style. I was essentially interested to hear classical voices one would associate with a concert/church organ. Unfortunately the track that I was able to access was typical of cinema registrations and with an ever-present tremulant.
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Hi
I've asked the question on a list dedicated to the Compton Electrone - I'll pass on any replies. The onrgan did exist in private hands - but IIRC it's recently been gutted and the console fitted with digital electronics.
Every Blessing
Tony
Thanks, Tony. I'll be interested to know of any responses. It will also be interesting to learn if the original stops have been retained even though they may have been digitised in the meantime.
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Must mention tonights excelent recital at Holy Trinity, Hull, it was given by Matthew Martin, Ass at Westminster Cathedral, It was brilliant, and how he made the old girl sing, thats the organ, not Cynics wife, who I think was page turner for the evening. Mrs Cynic has done a marvelous job with the recitals at HT, and they are very well recieved by those who go. It was also nice to meet a fellow board member there who remembers the organ in it hay day, not long after it was built
Peter
I wholeheartedly endorse Peter Allison’s comments about Matthew Martin’s excellent recital at Holy Trinity, Hull, last Saturday. I thought all his registrations were first-class and he played with all the distinct clarity and flair that are certainly a hallmarks of one of his former teachers.
Hull, (IMHO) is such a Sodom and Gomorah when it comes to culture that it was hardly surprising there was such a small audience. But those of us who experienced Matthew’s recital went away more than satisfied and further sustained by the free refreshments.
If there is anyone out there reading this posting and who lives within striking distance of Hull, I can tell you that, given it’s sometimes audible snake pit, the organ at Holy Trinity is one of the nation’s gems. It needs all the support it can muster to enable its eventual and undeniable costly restoration.
Here is a list of recitals that are taking place from now until mid October:
Wednesday 18 June – Fay Adamson, St Mary’s, Mold
Saturday 12 July – Scott Farrell, Newcastle Cathedral (Newly appointed to Rochester Cathedral)
Wednesday 16 July – Simon Walker, St Mary’s, Edinburgh
Saturday 9 August – Richard Moore, Southwell Minster
Wednesday 20 August – Alex Berry, Holy Trinity, Stratford on Avon
Saturday 13 September – Mark Keith, Holy Trinity, Hull
Wednesday 17 September – Julian Savory, St Mary’s, Cottingham
Saturday 11 October – Thomas Leech, Ripon Cathedral
Wednesday 15 October – Simon Earl, Newcastle Cathedral
Wednesday recitals commence at 1.00pm and Saturday recitals commence at 7.30pm.
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Earlier today I was having a face-to-face chat with Cynic and I asked of him if he knew if there had ever been a recording made of the Compton electronic, the forerunner to the Downes-inspired Harrison pipe organ that's now resident in the building? "I don't know" came his reply, "but it could be a topic to raise on the Mander Forum."
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Just out of interest Barry, why is the board showing you as a new member?
JC
It's kind of you to ask, John. I tried to log on several weeks ago and the system would not accept my usual password and so I contacted Rachel, the forum moderator. I'm not sure if someone had objected to one of my postings and sought my removal (we are all entitled to our opinions), but according to Rachel someone else by the name of Barry was to be removed from the list of members and there was a mix-up with identities. I'm not a prolific contributor to the forum but have been a member since before 2004.
Regards,
Barry
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Yes, indeed, Alastair. My big problem is I'm not a French linguist.
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One of the reasons why some civic authorities are disinclined to pay for large-scale organ renovations is a lack of support for recitals. I can’t speak for Liverpool SGH, but I suppose the two cathedrals now tend to have a more stronger pull. Two recitals I attended in Liverpool last September – Paul Derret at the Met and the brilliant young James Norrey at the Anglican Cathedral – were quite well attended, particularly the recital at the Anglican Cathedral.
The situation in Sheffield is that the 1932 Willis III is not in all that bad a state, thanks largely to local enthusiasts in spite of it not having undergone a major overhaul for countless years. But it is hardly ever regularly played these days by recognised recitalists or others. It might get winded-up once in a while for use in conjunction with a visiting symphony orchestra.
But on a more serious note I am led to understand that there is some concern at Hanley, Stoke on Trent, over the decline in numbers at the Victoria Hall. It’s not many years ago that David Wells did a lot of work on the Willis III and not many years before that it was rebuilt by HN&B. and so it’s not in bad nick. I'm told it may even mean an end to the regular organ proms because there is little, if any, subsidy from the council.
York Minster Choir
in General discussion
Posted
Through this website I would much like to applaud the transformation of York Minster choir by Robert Sharp. I had heard choral evensong from there on many occasions over recent years and the choir always sounded positively tired. Last Wednesday's broadcast of Choral Evensong from York was a very pleasant revelation and a fitting tribute to the work of Robert and the choir. Well done!