Barry Oakley
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Posts posted by Barry Oakley
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Jonathan has been a long time growing on me, but this recital has finally brought home to me what a fine organist he is. Like most highly talented people there comes across strong evidence of humility.
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What a most highly talented lady.
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In terms of an organ stop I cannot find any reference to a Saxhorn, even in the Encyclopaedia of Organ Stops. But apparently its modern-day equivalent is the Tenor Horn, a core instrument found in brass bands. I'm not surprised that it sits well on a Solo division.
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10 hours ago, S_L said:
I remember the old Mander organ at Sheffield. Graham Matthews showed it to me in about 1972/73, I would think. I also remember a recital by Jean Langlais at which I acted as registrant for him. The rehearsal was fascinating because he felt his way around the stops knobs playing and listening as he went. It was all a slightly nerve-wracking experience! There was a Tuba that, if I remember rightly, was en chamade and, sitting at the console, it nearly parted your hair!!
I never got to play it but I did play the organ in the RC Cathedral in Sheffield - in 1975 - for the wedding of my brother in law.
The T C Lewis organ at St Marie's RC Cathedral, Sheffield was in a dreadful state in the 1990's, essentially the mechanical action. It was then maintained by a firm of local bodgers, the unreliable aluminium connections to rollers affixed by Araldite. It has since been rebuilt in conjunction with Andrew Carter and Nicholson's. Not an organ I find particularly inspiring.
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14 hours ago, D Quentin Bellamy said:
Just looking at the Sheffield organ, I see that it is a Phoenix rebuild of a Copemann Hart, but I'm not sure what has become of the Mander pipe organ, whether it is still there or gone.
I noticed on the stop-list of the present instrument that the nomenclature of the stops seems to be a curious mix of French, German and English. For example I see that there are names in different languages for the several flutes in the organ. These include on the Great a Hohl Flute 8’ and in French (presumably) a Flûte Harmonique 8’. In the Swell there is a Rohr Flute at 8' and also a Flûte Traversière at 8’, whilst in the choir we have a Chimney Flute at 8’ and also a Bourdon at 8’. In the Solo there is a Harmonic Flute and a Concert Flute. And in the Pedal there’s a right old mixture of Franglais including a Montre and also a Soubasse both at 16’ whilst the 32’ rumble is a Sub Bass; this together with Flute 16, Bass Flute 8'. Flute 4' and Open Flute 2' - the mind boggleth!!! There are also German stop names as well. So this appears to be some kind of multi-lingual beast. Why all the different languages??? It looks as if the builders, or the consultant, or both, couldn't make their mind up what it was supposed to be. Without getting into a pipe versus electronic debate (which is verboten on this site), can it be said that this instrument (and I guess many others) is suffering from a severe identity crisis?
The Mander organ eventually disappeared several years ago, I believe acquired by Henry Willis's after several rumoured and failed attempts to sell it to another venue. High on the list was a church in Newquay, Cornwall, but nothing ever came of it.
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Directors of Music at Sheffield Cathedral don't seem to stay for long periods, arguably the last being Graham Mathews. Is it because the long-promised pipe organ has never materialised?
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Thanks, Tony, I had already seen what You Tube had to offer but wondered if there were any MP3 recordings that would have given better quality. I may, though, have to go down the route you suggest. Barry.
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I wonder if anyone on the Mander Forum might have an MP3 sound file of a Casson organ, preferably one of his Positive organs? I’m putting together a PowerPoint presentation for a small audience later in the year and only require around a minute of music. Please PM me via this site if you are able to provide such a file or suggest where I might be able to obtain one. Thanks.
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56 minutes ago, Stanley Monkhouse said:
A bit of background from my viewpoint: a cathedral-trained organist turned urban vicar after a 30 year career as a medical academic, now retired.
The choral revival in the Church of England has lasted about 180 years. Together with other developments it’s provoked the evolution of the English organ. It's now waning. Some cathedral choirs are finding life difficult. Many (? most) parish church choirs have folded or are terminally ill. Congregations have been decimated. Hardly anybody under the age of 50, unless they've attended fee-paying schools, knows hymns other than Morning has broken, Sing Hosanna and Lord of all hopefulness (the Lord's Prayer too).
The liturgy of the Church of England is changing. The need for organs to ‘paint the psalms’ has all but vanished outside (most) cathedrals. Many clergy are not interested in music that uses organs. Many clergy are not interested in the sort of liturgy that organs can enrich. Cathedral evensongs attract, but they’re now just an arm of the heritage industry for the middle classes who can afford to drive to them (fuel prices might have an effect there).
Young people were never particularly keen to take up the organ. I attended state schools in the 1950s and 1960s and there were a few of us, even in Carlisle, but the situation is worse now, young organists coming almost exclusively from fee-paying schools. Any state school boy (I wouldn’t know about girls) interested in the arts is quite likely to have the ordure kicked out of him these days (I speak from personal and pastoral experience). It’s not kool or macho.
Churches can hardly afford to keep the buildings going, let alone what’s in them. The average congregation numbers 27 and falling fast. The average age of a churchgoer is about 67 and rising fast—they’ll be dead soon. Churchgoing is just a hobby like hiking or climbing or knitting.
The English public are not particularly interested in organs. Musicians tend to look down their noses at organs and organ music.
So most organs won’t need to lead hearty congregational singing or paint the psalms. The English organ is, if you like, being freed from its churchy associations. What do you see as its future?
The broadcast media has not been particularly helpful in giving the organ the profile that it deserves. A few weeks before Christmas, listening to BBC Essential Classics, the presenter sought views from listeners about there being more organ music on the programme. I responded immediately and with enthusiasm and my e-mail was read out within the hour. So far I have not noticed any increase in the programme’s organ music output.
I also believe the steady secularisation of society has led to enormous lack of exposure to the organ and its music. And somehow, the organ is seen by many as being associated with God and church worship and that it is seen as a bit of a turn-off. Gone too is the sight of colourful theatre organs in cinemas, perhaps with the exception of Leicester Square’s Odeon.
Attendance at cathedrals appears to be holding steady or maybe increasing. I was at Gloucester for choral evensong back in October; it was very well attended and the music from choir and organ was first-rate. I think these occasions do tend to attract quire-filled congregations where there is a strong appreciation of good music, perhaps ex choristers as in my case.
I’m not sure what the uptake of the organ is in schools. At one time many grammar school pupils were familiar with the organ at daily assemblies. Perhaps the nation’s public schools, most having chapels, are now the only schools where there is still a trickle or flow of potential organ scholars. The local Catholic church in my village is fortunate in having a former Winchester pupil play its single-manual organ when he’s down from Cambridge. He’s talented, having been organ scholar at Gloucester and then Toulouse.
But the CofE left me many decades ago, first with the appearance of Series 1 and Series 2, followed by ASB (All Spare Bits) and now Common Worship. What was wrong with the beautiful language of Cranmer? Similarly, the Roman Catholic Church, apart from some cathedrals, abbeys and oratories, have also ditched most of their historical liturgical music, replacing it with dreadful stuff from OCP.
I think I’d better stop before losing any accumulation of plenary indulgences.
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9 hours ago, John Robinson said:
Yes, unfortunately I have never been able to develop the necessary skills to play. If a genie should ever offer me three wishes, one of them would be that I was able to play the organ well. I have not yet considered the other two!
My Christmas music consisted, this year, of only two sources: the King's Nine Lessons and Carols and a CD of their Christmas music.
I was pleased to find that their standard of music has remained, under their new musical director, as excellent as it was under the distinguished Stephen Cleobury.I much echo what you say in your first paragraph. I was taught the rudiments of piano playing (a skill I've since lost), by the mother of one of my friends and on a Bechstein baby grand. I was then confronted with having to practise on an old upright with a wooden frame that barely stayed in tune for a day. Having something of a critical ear for pitch I could not stand the situation and so reluctantly lost interest.
Your second para I also agree with. King's will not lose any of its well established reputation under Daniel Hyde.
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On 28/12/2019 at 22:16, John Robinson said:
King Jesus Hath a Garden
Quittez Pasteurs
(No, I didn't play them. I'm not an organist. I enjoyed listening to them. I'm very good at listening!)
Like you, John, I’m not an organist but an avid listener who also leaned towards construction. So far this Christmas I’ve not played a single carol CD, simply relying on the radio broadcast from King’s. What CD listening I’ve done has been much needed dust-offs of Tournemire, Duruffle, Dupre, Langlais, Whitlock and, of course, Bach, etc.
Happy New Year everyone.
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My contact at Fratelli Rufatti has kindly sent me the stoplist for the new three-manual organ at Pershore Abbey. Interesting.
The design of the organ has been very challenging due to the severe space constrictions, determined by the need to reduce the visual impact of the instrument inside the building, in particular by reducing the protrusion of the organ cases to a minimum. In spite of a very creative use of the available spaces, it has been impossible to include some stops which would have been desirable under different circumstances, such as an open 16’ Pedal flue stop, and an additional stop at the Great (a reed stop in particular).
The stoplist for the new organ of the abbey church is designed to provide the conditions for the highest possible versatility, so that the instrument may be suitable for a variety of tasks. Its primary purpose will be that of leading choir and congregational singing and in general for the support of the liturgy. In addition, the tonal design reflects the intention of creating the conditions for the proper performance of the classical organ repertoire of different styles. For this reason, in particular, a classical Positiv (Manual I) has been preferred to a Choir or Solo division.
The space limitations suggested a small number of unifications and thus provide added flexibility to the player.
Although not of large size, the intention is to create an instrument whose stops will all be of distinctive sound character, all meaningful, of classical proportions and voicing and designed to blend in a wide range of combinations.
PEDAL ORGAN
Resultant Bass 32
Sub Bass 16
Bourdon 16 (Great)
Octave 8
Bourdon 8 (Extension Sub Bass)
Gedeckt 8 (Great)
Super Octave 4 (Extension Octave)
Fagotto 16
Fagotto 8 (Extension Fagotto 16)
Schalmei 4 (Extension Fagotto 16)
POSITIV ORGAN
Holz Gedeckt 8
Gemshorn 8
Koppel Flute 4
Block Flute 2
Quint Flute 1.1/3
Cromorne 8
Herald Trumpet 8 (Console Prepared)
Positiv 16
Positiv 4
Tremulant
Unison Off
GREAT ORGAN
Bourdon 16
Principal 8
Gedeckt 8 (Extension Bourdon 16)
Octave 4
Traverse Flute 4
Super Octave 2
Mixture IV Ranks 1.1/3
Herald Trumpet (Console Prepared)
Tremulant
Great 16
Unison Off
Great 4
SWELL ORGAN – Enclosed
Stopped Diapason 8
Viola Gamba 8
Viola Celeste 8
Principal 4
Venetian Flute 4
Nazard 2.2/3
Piccolo 2
Tierce 1.3/5
Plein Jeu III Ranks
Trompette Harmonique 8
Herald Trumpet 8 (Console Prepared)
Tremulant
Swell 16
Unison Off
Swell 4
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Matthew Martin is becoming something of a Bedouin.
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9 hours ago, John Robinson said:
Well it used to be. Haven't they changed it to Leeds Minster now?
It seems to be trendy to adopt the title 'Minster' these days for some reason!
Leeds Minster is now the name of the former Leeds Parish Church. Likewise, the former Holy Trinity Parish Church in Hull was made a minster when Hull was “City of Culture.” It was a name change brought about by Archbishop John Sentamu of York. I always thought the title of minster could only be conferred if monastic links were part of a church’s history. In Hull’s case there is some historic evidence of white friars and black friars (Whitefriargate and Blackfriargate), being once present in the city although I have never seen any links shown in Hull Minster’s past history.
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Sheffield City Hall has an ornate, magenta-painted cast iron screen as a facade hiding its organ pipes.
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Have just heard from Roy Goodman's sister that Roy visited Stephen in the York hospice only 10 days ago. Apparently Stephen was studying and listening to Das Rheingold at the time.
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So sorry to learn only a few minutes ago of the untimely death of Sir Stephen Cleobury. A superb organist and choral conductor.
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29 minutes ago, Colin Pykett said:
I feel that one of the core aspects of this topic obviously relates to physical space. Certainly, in agreeing with Colin’s remarks, the digital reed voices on the Southwell Minster pedal division are most effective. Likewise, Compton’s solution for the 32ft Sub Bass pedal flue at Hull Minster lay in a very, very effective polyphone. At the bottom end it’s a stop you don’t so much experience by hearing but by feeling. Its vibrations seem to make the whole building gently shake. There’s no doubt the polyphone solution at Hull concerned the availability of space rather than cost.
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I, too, listened to the David Briggs recital from Llandaff Cathedral. His playing was as impeccable as ever, but I did not realise how acoustically dead the cathedral is. For me this took a little of the shine off the programme.
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12 hours ago, MusoMusing said:
It is claimed that the original organ was weak and ineffective. Compton's revoiced everything, and the result was spectacular. In my view, the Compton name should still be there, because R & D did nothing much tonally.
It is certainly documented that the original F&A work lacked adequate speech and Compton's later work involved a massive revoicing more in keeping with what was needed for the hall. The Compton name still appears alongside that of Forster & Andrews, but comparatively much, much smaller than "Rushworth & Dreaper." As well as maintaining the organ, R&D oversaw transposing of the original movable Compton console to a fixed position and its conversion to drawstop. They also oversaw the installation of a solid-state capture system. And as you say, MM, Compton's revoicing was "spectacular." But I suspect R&D may have done some tinkering with the voicing, perhaps with the reeds, why I cannot imagine. Compton's reed voicer, Frank Hancock, was acknowledged to be one of the best in the business.
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The console tablet on the organ of Hull City Hall states very, very boldly, "Rushworth & Dreaper" and the real builders lesser so. Anybody with historical knowledge knows that whilst R&D maintained the organ after the demise of Compton, it is fundamentally Forster & Andrews of 1911 and rebuilt and enlarged by Compton 1950-1951. Is the Trades Description Act now defunct?
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4 minutes ago, Rowland Wateridge said:
I was referring to my own straying rather than yours! I gather that the RFH organ possibly isn’t a favourite? It will always be controversial, but I think the 5.55 recitals there introduced the organ repertoire to a whole generation who might otherwise have never encountered it. Of course, you could argue that this was limited to people who happened to be in London, or who worked there - although London has a huge catchment area. For these reasons, I think the RFH was a source for good. Three players at random - Helmut Walcha, Francis Jackson and Noel Rawsthorne all spread the gospel of organ music in their different styles at those recitals.
But if I dare get back to Sheffield, it's the centre of quite a very large conurbation in South Yorkshire that embraces Rotherham, Barnsley, Doncaster and all stations in between and not too far beyond, such as north-east Derbyshire, (Chesterfield). The very dry acoustic of the city's concert hall has more or less killed off interest in the organ there.
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2 hours ago, Rowland Wateridge said:
But wasn’t Wolverhampton a case of murder, rather than death from natural causes? I don’t know Sheffield City Hall, or whether there is a potential audience for organ performances. But I clearly remember the Royal Festival Hall with its virtually dead acoustic and large audiences at the ‘Wednesday at 5.55’ recitals. They had enormous influence for good - agreed there is a world of difference between the RFH organ and any by Henry Willis III. I am bold enough to suggest that both can be very fine.
I ought to add apologies to York Minster - an organ I admire enormously. We have rather strayed from York.
I suppose you could argue that we have strayed from the York Minster rebuild although there’s a tenuous link with Sheffield through Bairstow’s involvement in the 1930’s. I hold my hand up along with others who are tempted to digress from topics. Let me not get on about the RFH.
Am I Hearing Things?
in General discussion
Posted
I understand that when the Forster & Andrews/John Compton organ, including the console, in Hull Minster is overhauled, cleaned and renovated, the Compton luminous stopheads are to be retrofitted with LED’s. Have, I wonder, any other similar Compton consoles been so retrofitted?
When, in 1939, the console was first used, the intensity of incoming natural light was so strong that it neutered the stops’ tungsten light output and individual brown paper discs were cut and inserted to produce warm glows when stops were actuated.