Barry Oakley
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Posts posted by Barry Oakley
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21 hours ago, DariusB said:
The Sheffield organ is used regularly but infrequently ( I played it last in June). The acoustic is awful and the organ isn't in great shape, though David Wood does a great job keeping it going and is doing repairs slowly as funds become gradually available - far from the complete clean and overhaul it really needs. It all works although the quiet parts of the Solo are very unreliable and there's water damage to the 32' Open. But playing the restored organ at the Freemason's Hall in London - which is just a smaller version of the same instrument - made me realise how well the Willis III voicing copes with a very dry acoustic, and how good the Sheffield organ could be if it was really restored properly.
Sounds as though the Sheffield City Hall organ is no different to many other civic organs and I wonder if the Wolverhampton demise will be repeated elsewhere. When I lived in Sheffield the local ex Willis man used to perform running repairs although it was the handymen of the local organists association who kept it in tune. It's interesting to learn that water has got in and damaged the 32 Double Open Wood. I thought the building would have been in a good state of repair.
Around, I suppose 25 years ago, I arranged for the late Peter Goodman, former City Organist at Hull, to have access to the hall and play the organ. Although not good, hearing the organ played in an empty hall was a vast improvement to when a mass audience was present. But I was told at one time that the hall was essentially designed for oratory, music was really a secondary consideration. What a shame, as visually the hall is pleasing to the eye.
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On 22/08/2019 at 00:26, pcnd5584 said:
Apparently, HWIII wasn't entirely enamoured of his own work in this instance, either. However, this was more because of the dreadful acoustic ambiance of this hall, which is utterly 'dead', and devoid of any resonance, or even 'bloom' whatsoever.
Up until 20 years ago I lived in Sheffield and regularly attended orchestral concerts there. I was also a member of Sheffield Philharmonic Chorus during the 1980’s and it was very noticeable how dead the City Hall was in terms of any acoustic. The Willis organ there, it has a good typical specification on paper, remains largely unused on a regular basis.
In more recent years the hall has undergone some internal work, partly to improve its dry acoustic but I cannot comment on any success other than a friend’s report that it is marginally improved.
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4 hours ago, MusoMusing said:
I never thought of Sheffield, but you are right. Not only that, the space occupied by the old Willis/Mander (if it's still in situ) would have been about right for the Compton.
MM
I believe the Willis/Mander went several years ago, rumoured to have headed to Willis, Liverpool.
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15 hours ago, MusoMusing said:
It was certainly contrived and spurious, because long before the demise of the organ, the management of the hall wanted to make vertical space available for stage flies, which would have brought it into line with other, rather better venues, and project the hall into the first rank of visual experiences.
If that was the agenda, then the removal of the organ was not without justification, in an age which has made the organ unfashionable. To that end, the City Council did the right thing by appointing the late Steve Tovey as their consultant, with a view to finding a home for the instrument. However, with remarkable speed, following the death of Mr Tovey, certain members of the council seemed to regard this as a green light to simply scrap the instrument in order to hasten the conversion of the hall.
Again, I am not without empathy, but simply scrapping such a splendid and thoroughly well made instrument was, in my view, an act of criminal vandalism. The instrument could have been advertised for sale internationally, and it seems unlikely to me, that there wouldn't have been potential buyers; as the sale of numerous church organs to Germany has shown in recent years.
MMI wonder how many pipe organs are being “skipped” these days instead of being found new homes? Sheffield Cathedral has been without a main pipe organ for over 20 years, a toaster replacing it. The Cathedral’s website no longer carries any news of progress in either sourcing a brand new pipe organ or a good used replacement. Meanwhile I guess that rumours are still doing the rounds in local circles that at one time included interest in the Parr Hall instrument and a new creation from Swiss builder, Kuhn. Wolverhampton’s former Compton could well have been an ideal solution.
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39 minutes ago, Rowland Wateridge said:
Barry: I’m only four years behind you, but I have visited the Minster when some of the re-ordering was in progress. I haven’t heard the organ but noted that it is laid out very generously and, of course, had a close look at the console. MM mentioned Southampton Guildhall (which I have played in a very small way on a private visit) and that also has the Compton illuminated touch stops. Actually it’s another very fine instrument, although not really the subject here.
As you doubtless know, Hull City Hall has been in the hands of the builders, but recitals there are now resuming on Wednesday 2nd October (Philip Rushforth from Chester Cathedral), and then on the first Wednesday of every month at 12.30 pm. For the benefit of others, they last a full one-hour and the bargain price is £4.50 including a printed programme.
I firmly believe that after the organ is fully restored it will be more than a treat. Apart from Hull citizens, few have heard the Minster organ as it has never been commercially recorded in either vinyl or CD format. I hope that will be rectified eventually. And given the promising new acoustic it could eclipse the City Hall.
Living as I now do some 130 miles away from Hull, attending recitals there is, sadly, hardly a practical consideration. Many years ago I quite regularly attended first-class recitals given by Peter Goodman, then City Organist. But I suppose the most memorable of them all was the 1951 opening recital given by Norman Strafford and Fernando Germani.
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16 hours ago, MusoMusing said:
Getting to grips with the City Hall organ was always an ordeal when it came to degree congregations and such, but what an organ!
Totally revoiced by Compton's, I regard it as their greatest masterpiece, and Jimmy Taylor's in particular. It makes a fascinating foil to the other really great Compton at Southampton Guildhall, which has all the 1930's weight and infinite means of expression. "Rock crushing" is not a malign description, for that was the style back in the day. However, the City Hall organ at Hull, with considerable brightness and chorus integrity, really anticipated the reform movement in Britain, and the organ at the Festival Hall in particular. With an infinitely finer acoustic than the RFH, the City Hall was always going to sound better in the stalls.
What a difference a decade and a half can make! Southampton was 1937.....Hull around 1952 if I recall without checking.
MM
I admit to being quite fanatical about the work of Compton in Hull, particularly at the City Hall where as a young boy I was privileged to see (and hear) some of the work taking place in 1950 under Jimmy Taylor’s direction and who I got to know. But from a sentimental aspect I am particularly fond of the lovely organ in what is now Hull Minster and where I became a boy chorister in 1949. This organ was completed just before the outbreak of WWII.
The Minster organ, I understand, was a project on which John Compton himself actually worked. It was much the brainchild of Norman Strafford, then organist and master of choristers and also consultant for the City Hall masterpiece in 1950-1951. Slightly earlier, 1948, Strafford also had a hand in the Compton rebuild at Bridlington Priory.
Eighty years have now passed since the Minster organ was completed. Apart from periodic tunings and some repairs, the organ has essentially remained untouched, simply gathering the grime of time and understandable wear and tear having taken place.
In recent years much has been happening at Hull Minster. Gone are its substantial oak pews forming the seating in the central nave; a new stone nave floor has been laid and gone too is the presence of any nave carpeting. Already there is evidence of an exciting acoustic into which the eventually restored organ will speak. At now just turned 82, I hope I’m still around to once again witness the glorious sound of this beautiful F&A/Compton.
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2 hours ago, MusoMusing said:
That's the one! Isn't the Minster St.John?
MM
Beverley Minster is dedicated to St John of Beverley. St Mary's is further into the town and near Beverley Bar, an ancient entrance gate into the town. It has a fine 4-manual organ, a mixture of T C Lewis and Forster & Andrews workmanship.
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1 hour ago, MusoMusing said:
Wonderful news!
There's a wonderful basis on which to work, including the "battleship" Forster & Andrews parts, as well as Compton's renowned quality.
I hope they don't specify major tonal-changes, because this is one of the last untouched Compton re-builds, and contains, for instance, reeds voiced by the legendary Billy Jones.
I can't think of many areas, other than Liverpool and Bristol, where so many stupendous organs can be heard in a 12 mile radius....City Hall, the Minster, St John's Beverley, Beverley Minster. Also, Bridlington isn't far away. Not only that, they are all so different in character.
No matter who gets the job, I somehow doubt that it will be another 80 years before the next rebuild is due!
MMIt’s the best news I’ve received for a long time. I believe there will be some very minor tonal changes and perhaps some duplexing. But the fully restored result will be much as it is today. The full console restoration will incorporate a computer-based control system, replacing the 80-year-old Compton system and possibly LED’s replacing the tungsten bulbs in the Compton illuminated stopheads. It will also be placed on a moveable platform.
I’ve often thought that Hull and venues in its immediate surrounding townships, Beverley and Bridlington, could form the basis for an international or European organ festival.
With regard to Beverley, I think you mean St Mary’s, MM?
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It is now reliably reported that quotations are being sought for the complete restoration of the Hull Minster Forster & Andrews/John Compton organ, requests having gone to the "UK's three main organ builders."
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21 hours ago, Peter Allison said:
was Thalben Ball a great improviser? According to his book he was
Only ever heard Thalben-Ball via broadcasts and 78's, but I know that one of his pupils, the late Peter Goodman, was a wonderful improvisor. Wonder who perhaps taught him?
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I believe few knew of Jimmy Taylor's accomplished ability as an organist and an improvisor. In the final stages of the completion of the Compton rebuild of the Hull City Hall organ, as a young boy I can still remember him playing the instrument to both improvise and play excerpts from classical pieces. He could be quite brilliant.
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11 hours ago, MusoMusing said:
Further information:-
In the Concert Hall, Broadcasting House
Improvisations by J. 1. TAYLOR
With Commentary by FILSON YOUNG
Listeners will have read the article by Filson Young in last week's issue of THE RADIO Times, introducing this broadcast and calling attention to its unusual interest. Mr. Taylor will come to the B.B.C. organ, not merely as an organ recitalist, but as one who has been associated with its design and construction from the beginning. He is an experienced organ builder as well as an organist of great ability, and he has, in addition, the rare gift of true and creative improvisation. This evening's improvisation will therefore be favourably cast in a form suitable to demonstrate the capacities of the B.B.C. organ, while Mr. Filson Young will be at hand to comment from time to time on the stops and combinations used. -
3 hours ago, MusoMusing said:
To make a serious point, the availability of instant registration changes at the touch of a button, has some quite serious musical implications. I was just humming my way through bits of the Reubke Sonata (as you do) where it demands fairly rapid changes of registration. When I play it, I always have in mind`the sort of organs Reubke played, and the thought occurred, that there need to be breathing-spaces in the form of largely unspecified changes to tempo, which can add an amazing sense of drama if one uses one's ears rather than just one's eyes and fingers. Hammering through the notes and pressing a button or two, can so easily lead to mechanical and wooden performances; not to mention over-rapid ones.
Sadly, I never heard Norman Strafford perform, but he had quite a legendary reputation, and people who had, talked about him in hushed tones.
On the other hand, thumb-pistons and sequencers would be fairly indispensable in the attached link, behind which is a fascinating story.
To be serious for a moment, Quentin Maclean had studied composition with Max Reger and organ with Karl Straube, and he was assistant at Westminster RC Cathedral under C S Terry. Obviously keen to earn a bob or two (like his father Alec Maclean "The God of Scarborough') he took up playing theatre-organ, and was probably the best of his generation.
What could any of us do, when the BBC Producer yells, "Keep going.....we're under-running."
Well, there are improvisations and there are improvisations.
Fortunately, someone recorded it for posterity, and young David Gray learned it from the recording. I don't think he touches a single stop-tab!
https:/
MMThe Notre Dame topic, like many topics on this forum, is somewhat a victim of digression. I hold my hand up. But I had previously referenced the late Norman Strafford who was from 1929 to 1951 Peter Goodman’s predecessor both as Organist & Master of Choristers at what is now Hull Minster and also the City Organist. Strafford was a charismatic figure, particularly as a fine choir trainer, building a huge reputation as Chorus Master of the Hull Choral Union and was also no mean organist. He acted in a consultancy capacity for the rebuild and enlargement of the Minster’s magnificent organ in 1938, the Hull City Hall organ in 1950 and, I believe, the 1948 rebuild by Compton of the instrument at Bridlington Priory. Hailing from Leeds, he was a onetime music master at Woodhouse Grove School and had an association with the Leeds Festival Chorus where he was, I also believe, either Chorus Master or accompanist. Strangely, there is no mention of him amongst their notable musicians. Strafford had amongst his musical friends the likes of Stanford and Beecham.
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10 hours ago, MusoMusing said:
It all went wrong when organists discovered how to change their combinations without moving their feet.
Whatever happened to showmanship?
Sequencers? Electronically adjustable pistons? Multi channel pre-sets?
No! No! No!
There were no finer combination presets than carefully spaced fingers. This man knew how to do it!
Then there was Virgil Fox!
MMI well remember my days as a boy chorister at Holy Trinity, Hull, (Hull Minster), and watching in awe the late and great Norman Strafford, also City Organist, hand register even though he had a plethora of pistons. He was Masterful. But I’m reminded of a YouTube video of the brilliant Thomas Ospital playing the organ at St Eustache, Paris, and making great use of a sequencer. I just don’t know how he could have played such a piece without the availability of the facility.
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11 hours ago, MusoMusing said:
You're both right and wrong Barry. The original Anneessens instrument never had a 32ft flue......just a mere 32ft reed of vast scale. Compton indeed added a Polyphone, which he called Soubasse 32ft, while Nicholson's added a "proper" 32ft Open but also retained the Compton Polyphone, which if I recall from a mere 55 years ago while working for Laycock & Bannister, is the genuine article, and not a collection of bi-phonic pipes.
You mention Compton additions......not very many actually. The main contribution was to make the organ brighter, because Abbott & Smith had tried to make it sound like an English organ, when it was actually a very reed dominated continental sound.
However, you'd think someone would mention that Compton installed the Tuba, which was always impressive.
The biggest contribution Compton made, was increasing the scope and size of the Choir Organ, which grew to a department of 22 stops!
Don't quote me on this, because I've only been inside the instrument a couple of times, but my gut feeling is, that Compton were able to use extension for the Choir Organ, because the Choir Organ shared the same colossal windchest with the Great Organ, and was therefore not of the slider-chest type. (That windchest was the largest in Europe, and is stored against the chamber wall inside the organ as a museum piece).
When.....I hesitate to say "we"......rebuilt the beast, lots of new (Rogers of Leeds), very small pipes went into the instrument; roughly voiced and badly regulated, all paid for by Mrs Coulthurst, a local Yorkshire philanthropist. The Choir Organ became a Positive division. The end result was Anneesens/Compton and a lot of screeching new upperwork.
Enter, at this point, a quirk of fate, when the heating system flue split open, and filled church and organ with paraffin fumes. Insurance to the rescue, and new cleaning work by Laycock & Bannister; by which time the company had been taken over by Nicholson's and Dennis Thurlow. A lot of the newer pipes were tamed, voiced properly and regulated, and a much better organ emerged.
The later Nicholson re-build was radical, but long overdue, but there are still recognisable bits of Anneesens, Compton, Laycock & Bannister, early Nicholson and later Nicholson.
It now sounds wonderful, I'm happy to suggest!
MM
It's quite a complicated path to follow, but at least it's all worked out well in the end
If you look at the NPOR entry for Bridlington Priory you will come across a photograph of the diaphone. I've been in the organ chamber and it's definitely from the Compton stable. The tuba also shouts out that it's definitely Compton, lovely and fat.
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8 hours ago, MusoMusing said:
I'm not aware of anyone making Diaphones anymore; possibly because they are quite complicated and expensive to make. The trouble is, in pursuit of the "rock crushing" bass, they got a bad name in the era 1890-1940 or so, but there are many examples of quite subtle Diaphones, of which Wakefield is one, and as Barry points out, Holy Trinity Hull is a second example. (I wasn't aware of it when I first played that organ, but I must have used it).
People react to Diaphones in different ways. This is my favourite:-Another example of a very effective polyphone is at Bridlington Priory, a building with excellent acoustics. The NPOR entry covering the last rebuild by Nicholsons, attributes the 32ft Sub-Bass (Soubasse) to Anneesens. I feel with some measure of confidence that it is the work of John Compton who installed it when he rebuilt the Priory organ in 1948-1949 and also added further ranks that have not been attributed to him.
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10 hours ago, MusoMusing said:
As a footnote, the most common Diaphones were of Diapason quality, but potentially much louder. They usually morphed back to open flue pipes as the notes ascended.
The use of a Diaphone at Wakefield may well have been Compton's reacting to the acoustic. Although a fairly resonant building, sound does not travel well from the Chancel to the Nave; especially bass notes, and the best place to hear the organ is actually in the chancel, where it sounds immense.
In conclusion, I think it may be said that the majority of Compton diaphones are somewhere between Open Wood and Open Diapason in tonal quality, and unless someone mentioned it, most people wouldn't know that a diaphone was installed. The huge advantage of a Diaphonic Bass is the fact that the resonators can be folded with relative impunity and without loss of quality, thus making them suitable for restricted spaces. That's why they found their way into cinema organs, where space was usually at a premium.
Not to anticipate anything too much, but what John Compton had to say about Diaphones is just amazing.......that man really knew his craft, and the fine detail is astonishing.
MMThe Compton polyphone at Hull Minster (32ft Sub-Bass), speaks with beautiful effect, especially with Swell strings. It’s a wonderful stop, one that you don’t so much hear but feel. It’s as if the ground is gently shaking.
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Hull Minster's Compton transmission system has lasted 80 years although it is showing signs of failing and is to be replaced by modern, up-to-date technology.
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12 hours ago, MusoMusing said:
It's amazing that both the City Hall and Trinity Church survived two world wars. It must have been bad during the WWII air-raids, judging by the "bomb-maps" which can be studied on-line. I do know that Norman Strafford (the O & C at Trinity) complimented Compton's on the fact that the organ remained playable in spite of a terrible shaking during the air-raids.
MMOf course in different ways both buildings suffered war damage, the City Hall more so than Holy Trinity. The City Hall suffered war roof damage that affected the organ and resulted in Compton’s work in 1950-1951. At Holy Trinity there was damage to the quire clerestory windows that allowed sparrows to roost in the building, mostly on the south organ case and where many perished at the bottom of Dulciana pipes.
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On 18/05/2019 at 18:51, MusoMusing said:
I had seen this picture before but no date applied and so I wrongly assumed it may have been WWII. The site replacement is what was once referred to as the "Labour Exchange." Interesting to realise that Compton had not yet worked his magic on the Holy Trinity (now Hull Minster) organ at the time this picture was taken.
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It’s likely you’ll find venturing into software specific for producing printed publications somewhat baffling. Microsoft, particularly Publisher, does not have a high reputation in the printing trade who tend to use costly and more complicated solutions from Adobe.
I set out life many, many, decades ago as a letterpress printer, now virtually unheard of. And so when I looked at finding software at an affordable price that would allow me to continue to use the many skills I had learned, I opted for a package known as PagePlus. Whilst the software has been discontinued in terms of continuous development, It is freely downloadable in its last version, PagePlus X9. Finished output can be converted to a PDF version which is acceptable to commercial printers. You might like to take a look.
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18 hours ago, MusoMusing said:
I'm working with Open Office, which seems to do most things quite well. Somewhere, I have Microsoft Word on a disc, but I don't see a vast difference in user friendliness/hostility or outright war!
I'm getting to grips with creating an index, which is quite tricky if you've never used them before; which I haven't. I'm getting there slowly, but I still haven't mastered it. There's plenty of information on-line, so I should be able to work it out, but it's a terribly boring job.
One thing I was going to ask Barry. Do you have the rights to the splendid photograph of the Hull Minster organ case? If so, could I include it by permission? On the subject of photographs, did you ever see the miraculous escape the Parish Church (Minster) had in WWII, during a Zepplin attack?
MM
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On 15/05/2019 at 22:38, MusoMusing said:
WARNING!
If you think music is complicated, don't get involved with print layout and formatting. I never knew just how much was involved. It really is a vast subject.
I am getting to grips with it all, fortunately.
MMI'm wondering what software you are using, Colin?
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As you can well imagine, David, there are a goodly number of examples of Keates’ work in and around the Sheffield area and beyond. I’ve not come across one that matches the size of the Uppingham example but of those I’ve heard, the Upper Chapel in Sheffield’s Norfolk Street (37 stops) contains a lovely piece of his work. It later received work by Henry Willis and is a delight on the ear. Of course, Keates received his initial training from no lesser Sheffield-based firm than Brindley & Foster as did the great John Compton.
York Minster organ rebuild
in Nuts and bolts
Posted
I suppose you could argue that we have strayed from the York Minster rebuild although there’s a tenuous link with Sheffield through Bairstow’s involvement in the 1930’s. I hold my hand up along with others who are tempted to digress from topics. Let me not get on about the RFH.