Malcolm Farr

You've got me quite intrigued there. I'll absolutely have to get myself a copy now. Incidentally, when I picked up the "Composers in Person" CD, I was rather taken aback by just how tame Vierne's recorded improvisations were. Certainly not what I had expected, given what I had read about him as a glorious improvisor. I see that Vierne's Bach recordings are also on the "Orgues & Organistes" CD-set. It will be interesting to hear them, too, as I have read rather the reverse - that they weren't up to par in some respects. Rgds, MJF

Ah, but are they still so cute when they must be rainbow-coloured, and cannot be black (or white, or yellow, or any other colour that might possibly give offence)? Personally, I prefer my sheep young, cooked, and with some nice mint sauce. Rgds MJF

By the way, didn't GTB once say that even cows mooing in field can make a pleasant noise, but it still wasn't music. However, sheep were never in the race at all ... Rgds MJF

An organist made headline news With his friends, all rams and ewes. Papers say it's absurd, That his concert they heard, Seated shoulder-to-shoulder in pews. I don't think I've got much future as a poet, but there you go. Rgds MJF

Surely you're not saying that sheep may not safely graze in your presence? Rgds, MJF

Thanks very much for this, acc. Rgds, MJF

Some years ago, I picked up an EMI CD called "Composers in Person", which includes Widor, at a truly venerable age, playing the Toccata from the 5th Symphonie and three movements of the Gothique, and Vierne playing two improvisations and the Andantino from the Pièces de Fantasie. Widor recorded in 1932, and Vierne in 1928. Tournemire recorded five improvisations in 1930, and these were transcribed by Maurice Duruflé around 1958. I've only ever heard recordings of others playing Duruflé's transcriptions, and never Tournemire himself. Does anyone know if Tournemire's original recordings still exist and, if so, whether they can be purchased on CD? I've never even heard of them being on CD ... Rgds, MJF

Certainly not an easy problem to solve, especially when we're so much in the dark. But here are a few thoughts - In my view, the Choir is of new real value except for the Clarinet, the Suabe Flute, the soundboard and the space saved by removing the remaining stops. So I'd reduce the organ to two manuals, for a start. The Great has got the basics, even though it's based on an Open Diapason that might, by the sound of it, be just a bit too big for any real chorus building. (Any thoughts on offsetting pipes and reducing the scale?) I'd move the Clarinet here, and have the Dulciana playing as a TC 16' rank. (As you'll see, I end up with a few TC ranks, especially in the Swell, but I think that's a price to be paid for getting something workable.) We could fit in a small mixture on the partly-vacated Choir soundboard. The Swell is still a problem, 'cause we can still fit only six ranks. But with a couple of stops moved out, we can transfer the Trumpet, and add a Fifteenth to create at least a miniature full Swell effect. I suspect the Great Wald Flute, relocated to the Swell as a TC 8' stop, might combine well with the Harmonic Flute. The Acoustic Bass seems a bit much on a scheme this small, so I'd put it out the door along with the Bourdon. I'd prefer a slightly lighter flue bass, using the old Swell Lieblich Bourdon. And we could add a 1/2 length Bassoon 16' for good definition. This means we'd be using the old Choir soundboard for a couple of Great Stops, and a couple of Pedal stops. I've heard of gerrybuilding this sort of thing where there's a direct electric action, although I don't know how it would go here. So what I'd end up with is something like this - Great Contra-Dulciana, 16' (TC) (former Great 8') Open Diapason, 8' Clarabella, 8' Gamba, 8' (former Swell 8') Principal, 4' Piccolo, 2' Mixture, II 15:19 - 12:15 (new, after Friedrich's thought above) Clarinet, 8' (TC) (former Choir) Swell Geigen Diapason, 8' (bass still unenclosed) Wald Flute, 8' (TC) (former Great 4') Harmonic Flute, 4' Fifteenth, 2' (new) Contra-Oboe, 16' (TC) (former Swell 8') Trumpet, 8' (TC) (former Great 8') Pedal Lieblich Bourdon, 16' (former Swell 16') Bass Flute, 8' Suabe Flute, 4' (former Choir 4') Bassoon, 16' (new) Okay, it would probably be quite awful, but I'm no designer of small organs. Still, it's a bit of fun to go through the exercise. Rgds, MJF

You wouldn't? Love it! I might have mentioned the sequal to my little mishap above. Our rector came up to me after the service, having seen off all and sundry at the porch, and me having just finished the Victimae Paschali Laudes to what was, by then, a pretty empty church. With the most accusing look you can imagine, he asked me "haven't I heard that somewhere before, hmmm?" Suddenly I felt too short to reach the pedals ... Rgds MJF

At least, MM, you practised silent voluntaries. Somehow, a cheesy grin and big "sorry" just doesn't cut it when ... You start out practising silently, decide you've done enough, set a fairly vigorous registration to announce the next hymn, read for a few minutes, get bored, forget what you've done already (viz. the fatal mistake of setting the next registration), decide "I'll get in a little more practice", then launch into the opening bar of the Tournemire / Duruflé "Victimae Paschali Laudes" - it was a pretty well-attended Easter service - startling the heck out of everyone, not least he of the reversed collar. I'm not one for setting registrations too early these days ... Rgds MJF

Young Marcel D. has taken a few yellow cards in this thread, hasn't he? I was going to say that I quite like his works, but when I thought about it, I realised that I like his early works, and some from his middle years - nothing really after the A flat Prelude and Fugue (which I love). Even then, there are some works in his "good" period I just can't get into, and one that leaves me absolutely cold - the Carillon. I haven't yet come across anyone who can, for my taste, render it even remotely listenable. I gave up trying to make anything of it years and years ago. Which gets me to what I was going to mention: that some of the French composers seem to have written far too much. As if they were under a compulsion to publish. (Or to accept commissions?) The good gent I just mentioned was surely one. Joseph Bonnet was another one who produced a few gems, but quite a number of duds. And Jean Langlais. No gems for me in his oeuvre, just duds. (Oh dear, haven't I given enough offence by now?) But no, a parting shot. Not another Frenchman, but now as English a chap as ever drew breath. I came across a while ago some old pieces by William Faulkes, and to say I found them a waste of the publisher's art scarcely hints at it. And I gather he wrote lots ... and lots ... all in much the same soppy vein. Well, I suspect he wrote something worth the effort. But how does one find it in a pharmacy full of musical sleeping pills? Rgds MJF

Thanks for this, pcnd - it's very interesting. I was aware in general terms about dissatisfaction with the changes to the Notre Dame organ during Cochereau's tenure, but not about a more wide ranging polarisation. In a way it rather reminds me of some of the things I've read about Louis Vierne. No one seems to have taken a moderate view about his playing of written pieces, his improvisations, or his own compositions: they were loved; or they were hated. I suppose to some extent this comes with the territory. Being titulaire of Notre Dame (or of St Sulpice, or of any really important cathedral or church) carries with it a lot of prestige, and a lot of responsibility. We expect absolutely the best from organists in these positions, but our ideas of what is in fact "the best" are very subjective. And, as you suggest, I think there can be a certain degree of envy, or perhaps professional jealousy, in some cases. Rgds, MJF

And I've spent the last 20-odd years since Cochereau's passing, believing that he'd been revered universally. I know we're getting a little off-topic, pcnd, but would you mind expanding on this? By the way, I haven't got a huge number of Cochereau recordings, but those I have are played with very great flair indeed, and up to repeated listening. Rgds, MJF

When I ordered the music for the Suite (some while ago now), I was expecting to see the Toccata as per the earlier version (which was the only version I'd heard up to that point). In fact, what turned up was the later version. Who publishes the earlier version? Or are they both through Durand - must one specify which version one is after? Rgds MJF

Unfortunately, I can't claim to know the Sydney Town Hall organ nearly as well as I'd like. It's now a few years since I've lived in Sydney, and I'm currently in an organ wilderness across the Nullarbor plain. For what they're worth, I'll offer the following comments, but expect that there will be others contributors to these threads who know this wonderful instrument better than I do. 1. From what I recall, the stopknob of the register in question is engraved "Celestina" rather than "Celestino". I don't know whence the "o" version derived, but the "a" version of the name agrees with other early Hill (and, I think, Gray & Davison) stop names. 2. Out of interest, I just looked up my old copy of Sumner's "The Organ", and it describes a Celestina as a 4' open wood flute. The Sydney example is certainly of flute tone, but I'm quite sure that it is of metal. (It always intrigued me that, on the other hand, the Choir Violino 4' - as to more of which, see below - is of wood.) 3. Auguste Wiegand asked for quite a number of changes to the organ during his time as Sydney City Organist, but only some of these were acted upon. Apart from the Piccolo, Trumpet and Vox Humana changes mentioned in my post above (and others below), he wanted and obtained a Celeste on the Choir. (As you note, the Sydney Town Hall organ is singularly lacking in Celestes.) To achieve this, I gather that the pipes of the Celestina were moved up an octave and tuned from pure. But see point 4. below ... 4. At the time he was working on the organ, Roger Pogson wrote an article about the restoration in which he stated that (at some unidentified stage) "the Choir Celestino [was] tuned pure to become Violino 4'". However, the Choir already had a Violino 4' - it was one of the original contracted stops accepted by Hill - while the Celestina was substituted by Hill for (what was originally intended to be) a Flauto Dolce 4'. In other words, the Choir had both the Celestina and Violino from the beginning. Therefore I'm not sure what Mr Pogson meant in the above statement. 5. What does seem reasonably clear is that the Celestina was reinstated as a 4' stop during the Pogson restoration. (Mind you, a simple statement that it was reinstated begs the question of what had become of the top octave of pipes. I assume that they were placed in storage, and I certainly haven't heard anything to the effect that replacements were needed.) While I could very well be wrong on this point, I suspect that it has been tuned impure deliberately. If this is the case, it would seem to be a compromise between reinstating the original pitch and retaining M. Wiegand's vision of a Celeste for the Choir. 6. I've only mentioned to this stage changes in speaking stops. However, the biggest changes that Auguste Wiegand pushed through were the total enclosure of the Choir - previously only the Choir reeds were enclosed - and the whole or part enclosure of the Solo (other than the Tubas). Certainly, since the Pogson restoration, the Solo reeds (other than the Tubas) have been under expression, but not the flues. I think that, under M. Wiegand, the whole of the Solo had been enclosed (other than the Tubas). The changes at point 6. above represent monumental changes, and very big decisions indeed in the context of the restoration. For most of its long history, the Sydney Town Hall organ has had a fully enclosed Choir and mostly enclosed Solo. I suspect we're delving into philosophy here, but it is arguable that the instrument with Wiegand's changes was valid historically, even if not original. At least, I suspect that this is the view that will have been taken in justifying those that were retained ... Rgds, MJF

The 1889 William Hill & Sons organ in the Sydney Town Hall has always had tubular pneumatic key action, although the action to the Choir and Echo was different from that applying to the rest of the intrument. The stop and piston actions are pneumatic, while the coupling is basically mechanical but with pneumatic lever assistance for coupling to the Great. I gather that the Pogson firm found the pneumatics in a dreadful state when they embarked upon the organ's restoration in the 1970s. However, there was apparently never any thought of "modernising" the actions (or indeed anything else). The restoration work was carried out very well, and the only quibble that I have had was entirely unrelated to the actions. Although it's not on point with this thread, I may as well mention that the decision was made to swap the Trumpet 8' and Vox Humana 8' once again - to return the Trumpet from the Choir to the Swell, and the Vox Humana from the Swell to the Choir. The Trumpet and Vox Humana had originally been interchanged in 1891 at the request of the then-Sydney City Organist, the Belgian Auguste Wiegand. This took place so early in the organ's history that, for all intents and purposes, it could be said that they had occupied their swapped positions ab initio. In fact, this took place some six years before the Swell Piccolo was re-made from 2' to 1'. Yet the latter change was retained. To me, having the Trumpet on the Choir gave that division - which was otherwise without a chorus reed - a little more flexibility, while its absence from the Swell was effectively covered by the Cornopean and Horn, both of 8'. I don't believe returning the Trumpet to the Swell has noticeably changed the effect of that division (although I suspect some others may disagree with me). And the normal place of a Vox Humana is on the Swell (or sometimes the Solo), but seldom the Choir. Rgds, MJF

Whether one loves him or hates him, I think one is bound to admit Dixon's prominent place in the tonal design debate in the late 19th century / early 20th century. The Dixon / H&H collaboration at St Nicholas, Whitehaven was a very important instrument indeed, and I wouldn't mind betting that many of us would love to have heard or played it, had it survived - if only because of its historical significance. Certainly, I would. In his book The History of the English Organ, Stephen Bicknell traces H&H's rise to the first rank of organ builders to the Whitehaven organ, and thus to their collaboration with Dixon. I think SB is quite right in this, and on this score, at least, we owe Dixon quite a debt of gratitude. Rgds, MJF

I looked up the chapel organ out of interest in the Rugby School website (referred to above) and NPOR. Both have photos of the console taken from a similar angle to the left. I looks to me that the left and right jambs - what I can see of them - each have two double columns of drawstops. Now I assume that the left hand jamb has the Swell and Pedal drawstops and associated couplers as usual, while the right contains the Choir and Great and their associated couplers, again as usual, together with the Solo / Bombarde. Am I correct in thinking that the 6 stops of the Solo plus a tremulant are at the upper left (ie. the upper left of the right jamb), while the three stops of the Bombarde are at the upper right? NPOR list the Solo and Bombarde stops separately, and it would make sense to dispose the drawstops in this way. I probably won't be back in England for a while yet, and therefore won't have a chance to hear this instrument live in the foreseeable. Next best thing: has anyone recorded it? Rgds, MJF

I'm not personally aware of partly enclosed Greats in smaller instruments, although I can see that there might be some advantages if the specification was well thought out. Nevertheless, I'd find it difficult to imagine a Great without at least 8' and 4' diapasons (and preferably the upperwork), and an 8' flute (and preferably a 4' one as well) on an open soundboard. But if we're looking at strings in the enclosed section of the Great, wouldn't we also be looking for light 8' and perhaps 4' flutes as well? Suddenly our organ isn't looking so small anymore, with a synoptic specification including 8.8.enc8.enc8.enc.8.4.4.enc4 on the Great (before we get to a sub-unison, any upperworks, and perhaps a reed. So the total synoptic Great might then be something like 16.8.8.enc8.enc8.enc8.4.4.enc4.22/3.2.IV.8 (13 stops) when we might originally have been looking at an unenclosed synoptic specification like 16.8.8.4.4.22/3.2.IV.8 (a rather more compact 9 stops). And of course there's the room taken up by the box to consider. Large organs are a different matter entirely. (Well, perhaps ...) The Great on the Melbourne Town Hall organ - originally Hill Norman & Beard (1929) and rebuilt by Schantz (2001) - has always been partly enclosed. Typically, as far as I'm aware, the enclosed section is in the Choir box. What I find interesting in this aspect of the Schantz rebuild is that the open soundboard diapason chorus has been completed with an Octave Quint, Super Octave and 4 rank mixture, so that both sections now have complete choruses from 16' to mixtures. Previously, all of the upperwork had been in the enclosed section. Hilborne Roosevelt's scheme for the Sydney Town Hall - much praised by Audsley to the detriment of Hill's magnum opus (which I personally consider the absolute #1, despite its relative lack of flexibility) - was to have included a partly enclosed Great. I confess that I don't know much about Roosevelt's work, but I do wonder in what repute it might now be held, had the scheme come to reality. Rgds, MJF

I suspect that we're talking about two different things here - value judgments on the one hand; and corrections of errors of fact on the other. The late Julian Rhodes pointed out a number of errors of fact in George Dixon's earlier comments, and attributed these in quite a number of cases to Dixon's aversion for the Hill firm and consequent unwillingness to accord Hill credit for any developments etc. The attribution is clearly a value judgement (although I rather suspect that it is correct). On the other hand, while I have not deliberately sought to check out JR's comments in respect of all of the errors he pointed out, at least in respect of those where I have come across "independent testimony", his comments as to Dixon's errors have certainly been borne out. I suspect it is this aspect to which MusingMuso was referring. Any comments MM? Rgds, MJF

It's just a little hard to swallow when the beast is overcooked. Rgds, MJF

I think we're saying the same thing in different ways. My own collection (see post above) isn't nearly as big as Pierre's yet it's still been collected over quite a number of years. And, Like Pierre, there are some CDs to which I haven't listened in ages. I simply don't have the time. I suspect that many of us with large-ish collections will be in the same position. Sometimes I've bought CDs for just a few of the tracks, and there are some that I have bought - even among those bought quite a while ago now - that I haven't yet heard from beginning to end. I have occasionally found a piece on a CD by accident (eg. setting the wrong track number), having bought it for other pieces, and thought to myself, "Well that's really quite good - why didn't I bother with it before?". And this after having bought the CD a year or more previously. I should set really myself a particular time each week for listening - just like practice. But then there's work, family etc. Oh well. Rgds, MJF

I must say that I'd never find enough time to listen to all this, what with work, the tribe of kids, work, the dog, work ... Oh for a life of leisure ... Rgds, MJF

So it's not "Organ Morgan all the time" ... Rgds, MJF

Well, looks like half of my inability to cope with anything techie has been corrected automatically - the address I typed in magically became a URL! Rgds, MJF