Malcolm Farr

Well, I suppose that would be a very real way of saying, "we learn by our mistakes". For me, the two most important criteria for preservation are: (1) historic interest; and (2) intrinsic merit. I think that both should be satisfied. There may be some historic interest in an original Hope-Jones, but I must say that I'm yet to be convinced of intrinsic merit. Regards, Malcolm F

For better or worse - see the comments above by PF Baron and pcnd5584 - this is exactly the impression I take from reading about the Fisk firm's current work. It seems that they are building instruments that have the French Romantic organ as their basis, and then grafting onto them Clicquot mutations (Lausanne), a Cromorne in the style of Dom Bedos (Lausanne again), a Schnitger Dulzian (still Lausanne), German Baroque Trommeten in addition to Cavaillé-Coll Trompettes (both Lausanne and Greenville), a German Baroque Mixtur as alternatives to the Cavaillé-Coll Fourniture and Cymbale (again both Lausanne and Greenville), and adding a Tuba Mirabilis to the "blend" (Greenville). If not putting a Swell on a Silbermann, certainly this could in part be viewed as adding a shrill Diapason chorus to a Cavaillé-Coll. While I applaud the concept of trying to allow an instrument to perform a large portion of the repertoire with (some degree of) authenticity, I do wonder if perhaps these instruments might be taking things a little too far. In this, I'll have to reserve my judgment for the time being, since where I'm located now - Perth, Western Australia - is a long, long way from either Lausanne or Greenville. Do we need to go so far, in any case? In his book on the William Hill & Son magnum opus at the Sydney Town Hall, incumbent organist Robert Ampt wrote that Gustav Leonhart told him that, "if the result is convincing, the impression will be authentic". To me, at least, these are wise words. While I think one will always need to be somewhat judicious in choosing music played on any particular organ, one can surely travel a long way beyond that for which it was originally "designed". In this respect, I assisted a friend quite a number of years ago with the registration of Reger's "Halleluia Gott zu loben" on a moderately-sized instrument in the Netherlands with neither a Swell box nor a crescendo pedal, nor indeed anything much at all in the way of registration aids. Yet the result was without doubt Reger - not, perhaps, as the composer had intended it, but nevertheless a most convincing performance. Isn't that all that we need aspire to? Regards, Malcolm F

Here's another one from the Fisk stable ... and perhaps a little closer to what Pierre has in mind. I just had another look a the Fisk website, and was reading about "Opus 126" at Greenville, North Carolina. The stoplist is primarily French nomenclature, and from the presence of both a Récit Expressif and Positif Expressif, I would assume French Romantic pipework and voicing to match. However, the Grand-Orgue includes a Trommeten 8', while the Pédale includes both that stop (by transmission) and a Posaune 16' as well as the French reeds. Based on what has apparently been done at Lausanne, I would assume that the Trommeten and Posaune are firmly German Baroque in style. But wait, there's more! (Sounds like I'm making a special offer on steak-knives, doesn't it ...) The Positif Expressif includes a Tuba Mirabilis 8'. My guess is that this is an English-style tuba, rather than a register along the lines of the Cavaillé-Coll / Mutin stop of the same name at the Sacré-Coeur. Alright, I've assumed and guessed enough for this post. Does anyone out there know this instrument? Have the good people at Fisks incorporated three quite different reed styles into their new organ at Greenville? And done so successfully? Regards Malcolm F

I can't think of any organ that would satisfy Pierre's requirements of having both (H&H-style) Trombas and (ACC-style) Trompettes. However, I would be interested to hear from anyone who has played or heard the Fisk instrument at Lausanne Cathedral. I understand that the Lausanne Fisk has a somewhat mixed pedigree. A primarily Clicquot-style Grand-Orgue flue chorus, but with added 8' fonds to bring out its French Romantic side. A large German Mixtur as an alternative to the Fourniture and Cymbale. And Trommeten at 16' and 8' pitches as alternatives to the ACC-style Trompette chorus. The Positif de Dos is apparently based on a German Baroque chorus, but again with French and German mixtures as alternatives. It also contains all the mutations that one would expect in both a classical French Grand-Orgue and Positif. Plus a Schnitger-style Dulzian 16' and a Cromorne 8' after Dom Bedos. And more ... Does it work? I've heard some of the Fisk firm's (older) work in the USA, and was quite impressed. But - on paper at least - this mixing and matching certainly looks strange (although it certainly does have its antecedents in the "American Classic Organ") ... Regards Malcolm F

Having moved again, and settled myself into my new home, I've joined a local church which has an ageing electronic instrument. It's on its last legs, and the clergy and organist are thinking of replacing it. With a pipe organ? No. With an up-to-date digital instrument. While there appears to be ample room for a "parish-sized" pipe organ (that is, one without cathedral pretentions), the matter is ultimately one of practicality and cost. You see, we are now in Perth, Western Australia. We have just finished a summer with temperatures often well over 30C and sometimes over 40C - a baking heat with very little humidity - and are now moving towards winter, which we can expect to be much, much cooler, and during which most of our annual rain will fall. Apart from the problem of financing a pipe organ at the outset, I am told that maintenance and tuning costs would be more than the parish would want to afford. And the "ample room" is of course on the (both real and ecclesiastical) north side, which is of course most directly effected by the sun in our southern summers. So, notwithstanding "roffensis'" comments that a venue that houses an electronic instrument ceases in his estimation to be a building (see the quote at the top of this page 2), I will have to content myself with listening to, and perhaps an occasional foray on, an ageing electronic instrument and the new digital one (when it arrives). That is, unless I can find a way of doing something about the weather, instead of just talking about it ... Regards Malcolm F

Well that's something I ought to have checked. (But at least I got it right that there was a Pavillion there somewhere ... (hehe)) Thanks pcnd5584 Regards Malcolm F

Something came to mind, and I went back to a book that I had read a while ago now. Sure enough, combining pipe and electronic registers in fact seems to go back quite a long way - much longer, indeed, than I had expected. In his study "The American Classic Organ: A History In Letters", Dr Charles Callahan quotes a letter dated 15 October 1947 (!!) from G Donald Harrison (then President of the Aeolian Skinner Organ Co) to Henry Willis III: "As a matter of fact, I doubt if we will ever put a real 32' reed in this [the Ernest White residence organ in New York] particularly as Michael [GDH's son by his 1st wife], since he has been here, has developed a really magnificent electronic 32' reed, and indeed it is so good that it seems sheer folly to use up all the material and space that one requires for the real thing. His device is capable of giving several 32' effects such as the 32' Fagotto, 32' Bombarde, 32' Contre Bass and 32' Bourdon ..." Although I think that history will judge GDH kindly, it's not hard to see why some regard him as having taken some things to extremes ... In his rather non-committal response of 11 November 1947, Willis III noted that Hill Norman & Beard had "fitted a 32' electronic device at the Cinema-type job in the Dome Pavillion, Brighton" that had, to his information "been out of use for years". (That would have been Percy Whitlock's organ, I assume.) (He also noted an electronic 32' Sub Bass at St Mary Abbots, Kensington.) If the Brighton electronic reed had been out of service for years, when had it been installed? It surely must have been pre-WWII ... Regards Malcolm F

I haven't heard the Kings organ since the 1992 revisions, so I'm not in a position to comment on your assessment of H&H's changes to the Quint Mixture. However, what I would note is that, effective as the pre-1992 chorus was, when the Quint Mixture was drawn, it certainly didn't sound - to my ears, at any rate - like that of a 1934-era organ. As it stood then, it was very much part of the "ebbs and flows of what's 'in' and what's 'out'". Considered in that light, I think H&H were probably, as they say, "caught between a rock and a hard place": leaving the Quint Mixture as it was, so that it didn't come across as part of a 1934-era chorus; "dumbing [it] down", so that it did; or removing it altogether. There's no doubt that small changes can have relatively large effects. Another example that I would give is from the restoration of the Sydney Town Hall organ. Apart from very practical matters (such as retaining the 1930s pitch change), it was very largely - and, I would add, very well - restored to its state at the end of Auguste Wiegand's tenure as first city organist (1891-1900). However, one of the very first changes that Wiegand made was to swap the Swell Trumpet and the Choir Vox Humana. This change has been reversed (so taking the instrument, as regards the disposition of these stops, back to what it was when first installed), and in my view there's a good argument that the Choir is quite a bit less flexible without it. Others may of course disagree ... Regards Malcolm F

I think Colin Harvey raises a very good point: that, in the longer run, a suitably sized pipe organ can be, and in all likelihood is, more viable economically than three, four or five generations of digital or electronic alternatives. However, I wonder if the "longer term" is itself part of the problem: a good many churches have real difficulties in simply continuing existence in the present. I moved to a new area almost exactly a year ago, only to find that the local church of my denomination had recently closed. Its congregation had dwindled to the point where the diocese had apparently taken the decision that the church could better serve those remaining by absorbing them into neighbouring parishes (themselves somewhat struggling in numbers). In these circumstances, it is hardly surprising that many churches do not take a long term view. Their needs are firmly based in the present, and I expect that even a digital or electronic substitute can represent a fairly large commitment for a good number of parishes. Cheaper again than these are guitars, etc. Churches understandably want to attract a new generation of worshippers, so that "updating" to modern music must seem a natural way of including them, while at the same time keeping costs down. Indeed, I suspect that there would be nothing cheaper than guitarists bringing their own instruments. I suppose this gives "Praise the Lord with drums and cymbals" a new meaning. I don't think that there is an easy solution to this. I do wonder, though, if church rationalisation will actually work in the interests of organ builders and organists. Combining parishes for viability must surely ease the economic burden, and - I hope - sufficient numbers will continue to take a sound, long-term view. Who knows, perhaps some lead guitarist might even think that the pipe organ sounds pretty cool ... Regards Malcolm F

Thanks, John. I rather expected that Robert had probably included in his book everything of which he was aware through the Sydney Council's archives. My next port of call will be the Association Cavaillé-Coll, and I just hope that my French is up to it! Regards Malcolm F

Alright, I admit it, I'm going to be rather cheeky here, but my question is ultimately a serious one. Our comments in other threads (particularly "The State of United Kingdom Organ Preservation" in the general discussion forum) have shown that, being enlightened folk, we're more keen on restoring and preserving than changing too much - certainly when the instrument in question has intrinsic merit and historic value. What then with hybrid instruments containing digital stops? At what point do we say of an organ, "this hybrid has historic value, and we should preserve the digital stops as well as the *real* ones"? Or do we say, "it's only an organ worth restoring and preserving to the extent that it is really a pipe organ"? My personal view is that, if such an instrument is otherwise worth restoring and preserving, and funds and space exist at the time of restoration for the substitution of real pipework, sympathetic to the original style, then that is what should be done. Regards Malcolm F

Thistlethwaite states that "[t]he (now) dummy reed resonators which project from the front of the organ are probably relics of 1862 when there is every reason to believe that the tuba was disposed horizontally". You've got a good memory there, James. Regards Malcolm F

What happened to your poor instrument at Namur is a very sad case of misunderstanding based on false expectations and assumptions. In such a case as this, what you suggest makes a lot of sense. So too, in basic guidelines as to registration combinations. (How many times have we heard poor registrations drawn, and thought to ourselves, "Doesn't this organist know what stops just shouldn't be drawn together?") However, I'd hesitate to go much further than that. How many times have we seen cases where a new organist comes to a church, and finds registrations in the organ that come off really well, but were never contemplated by the previous incumbent? (Come to think of it, didn't a certain JS Bach do this on a well recorded occasion?) But we could risk going too far if guidelines are thought of as limitations rather than "the basics", at least in some areas. I would certainly not like some overly pedantic teacher thrusting a set of guidelines at a new student and saying, "This is how you shall register pieces on my organ!" (None of us would ever be like that, would we?) As with all things, there's a balance that should be struck. Basic guidelines - yes I agree that they could well be helpful in some ways. But they would also have to be thoughtfully applied. Regards Malcolm F

Thanks John. For some reason, I can't type accented letters directly into search engine queries, although I've now found a back door method that seems to work. Interestingly, I'd done searches for others whose names properly include accents (but without actually including them), and retrieved quite a lot of webpages. I'd assumed that the accents weren't necessary - although I now expect that performing the same searches with accents would bring up even more entries! Regards Malcolm F

Reading Robert Ampt's book on the Sydney Town Hall organ, I noticed a section - only half a page - about the 1938 tour of Australia by the young French organist, Renee Nizan. I recall my father, many long years ago, talking about her with awe, although I cannot now recall if he heard her then in Sydney (where he would have been at that time) or earlier in England or Europe. He thought she was absolutely the "ant's pants", "bee's knees", and all those wonderful things rolled into one. Mr Ampt refers to a book or publication, which I currently have no way of accessing, namely Un Ete Precoce: Rene Nizan (1913-1945) by Etienne Delahaye, Toulouse: Orgues Meridionales, 1999. I have looked on the Internet for any information about Mlle Nizan, but haven't been able to find anything. (This is very surprising, as I thought the Internet had information on everything good, bad or indifferent, and that it could (anut td would) be located whether or not one wanted to find ...) Has anyone out there heard of Mlle Nizan? Have any information about her? Regards Malcolm F

Thanks John. I think I have a better appreciation now of why you took the Grand Recit / Petit Recit course that you did. Indeed, if you don't mind me saying so, I think that it could be helpful if comments along these lines were to be included if and when there is a revision of the portfolio section on St Ignatius, as I think they give a very good feel both to purpose and achievement. Others may of course disagree ... Regards Malcolm F

Many thanks, Pierre. This is something of which I was totally unaware. (By the way, it's interesting to review this series of posts and see how we've moved from CC at Notre Dame to Skinner's interest in TC Lewis! One never knows where matters will lead ...) Regards Malcolm F

Mr Ampt (who has been the Sydney City Organist since 1978) has his information from the council archives, and even reproduces the first page of CC's tender as an illustration in his book. But of course the archives can't give any information about CC's background thinking (assuming, of course, that he set down anything at all in this regard). Regards Malcolm F

Hi Pierre Do you have a reference for Mr Ambrosino's comments? I'd very much like to read them. Regards Malcolm F

I've just been reading Robert Ampt's book about the Sydney Town Hall organ, which provides in Appendix 1 the Sydney organ committee's proposed specification and in Appendix 2 brief descriptions of the tenders received. Mr Ampt states that Cavaille-Coll submitted a tender, coming in 2nd highest at 16,380 pounds, but that no changes to the specification were suggested. Bearing in mind CC's well documented propensity for making changes during the course of construction, who knows what might have resulted? Would the front and back divisions of the Great Organ have ended up as Grand-Orgue and Grand Choeur? Would the Tubas of the Solo Organ have been installed en chamade? (It's rather fun to indulge in "what ifs"!) I'd like to find out if CC left any records in his archives as to what he might really have done, if he was given the chance? Does anyone know if he mentioned the STH in his archived records? Regards Malcolm F

Are you sure about Skinner's interest in Lewis? EMS never (at least that I'm aware of) attempted to produce choruses along TCL lines, and I suspect that Lewis would have completely failed to comprehend his reliance on high pressures. Regards Malcolm F

I assume the Harrison you mean is G Donald, and that the Schoenstein firm are looking to his early work, when Willis III had put him in a position in which he hoped he might influence Skinner more towards the Willis style? Is that right? Regards Malcolm F

Even so, the result is so good that it's always been an enigma to me why CC didn't later adopt it as a precedent, at least in his larger instruments. Perhaps he was so taken with his own vision of the Recit - and it's admittedly an excellent one in its own right - that he decided despite St Sulpice that there was no place for a classic mixture in the Recit except where the pipework was already available, and of sufficient quality. Regards Malcolm F

I suppose this means that we should consider the Récit Expressif at St Sulpice something of an anomaly. Cavaillé-Coll included the Fourniture IV and Cymbale V from the pre-rebuild Positif, I think it was. (They remain to this day uniquely part of the jeux de fond.) Placed in an exposed position above the rest of the instrument, for me this division has a thrilling effect. So what was Cavaillé-Coll thinking of? It's certainly unlike any other Récit he built. Regards Malcolm F

Curiouser and curiouser! First, the Trustees own the organ, or at least so much of it as has been installed. [but I gather they don't own the Alexandra Palace itself - is this correct? And isn't the future of the building still in some doubt?] Then the balance of the pipework is owned by Henry Willis & Sons, unless of course it belongs to one or more other instruments such as Wylde Green. [Does bam's statement above mean that the two Choir Organ stops in question never in fact belonged to so much of the instrument as had vested in the Trustees, but were merely on loan from Wylde Green or Willis?] Finally, the Appeal is responsible for funding the restoration of the organ, which I thus take to include, as a first step, the purchase of pipework from Willis on a piecemeal basis as needed for whatever part of the restoration is proceeding - when, that is, restoration work is in fact proceeding. [but I assume that the pipework wouldn't physically leave Willis until such time as it is ready for installation, when I would gather it vests in the Trustees. Or does it?] Well, if the duke found that Mozart's music had too many notes, I, for one, find this whole story just as much of a muddle ... Yours in dazed confusion, Malcolm F