JWAnderson
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Posts posted by JWAnderson
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Look here for more info:
Westminster Abbey Celestial Organ
I doubt it will ever be incorporated in what is already a design of integrity.
It seems to me like a bit of a waste just to have the division sitting there and not actually be used.
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By and large, yes. [i ought to note that I have not yet come across a Lewis Mixture with a Tierce in it... therefore, I think your Great Mix. ought to be 19.22.26.29]
Your Swell Bourdon can be used on the pedal too, provided that it is on a chest by itself. If there's preparation for a Bourdon on the Swell soundboard now, you'd be best putting it there. A Bourdon slide (being at the back of the bar and the back of the box) is most unsuitable for a reed or upperwork which were the only things that it seemed necessary to add. Reeds and Mixtures ought always (for steadiness of wind etc.) to be right above the pallet.
Occasionally, I have seen Contra Oboes on former Bourdon slides and they are the very **gg** to tune.
I'm not actually sure that there was extra space on the soundboard for the Bourdon, so it would probably go onto another chest with other new ranks, but could use electro-magnets instead of using the pallets.
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I quite like this speci that you have come up with.
They were going to add the Violone 16, and use pipes for that in the back of the facade, but I'm not sure if they were going to add that on the Gt or just the Ped. They were also going to add a Vox Humana 8 on the Choir except I can't give exact details, since I haven't got the speci.
One addition I think could be made is an Echo Bass 16, borrowed from the Swell Bourdon 16, just to provide a softer flute bass instead of the Sub Bass 16.
As for the Mixtures the compositions could be something like: Gt Mixture IV (15.17.19.22), Gt Cornet III (12.15.17), Sw Mixture III (15.19.22 or higher like 19.22.26)
JA
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I've never actually been in the concert hall there so it is pretty difficult. Completely no idea about the acoustics. I'll try to find a speci for what they want to do in the rebuild soon.
JA
For more information about the hall, you can go to GALLAGHER CONCERT CHAMBER where there are some pics and a little bit of info about the acoustics.
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An even better idea - perhaps with a new console, in a conjectured re-creation of the Lewis style (for example, the draw-stops arranged on horizontal rows, in a kind of English interpretation of a Cavaillé-Coll bureau-style console). There are a number of photographs of original Lewis consoles around, so it may be possible to achieve this without resorting to too much guess-work (a recent thorny problem at a certain large, north-country English church, with a famous instrument comes to mind).
I had not realised that the Choir Organ was not originally by Lewis. Mind you, on paper, it looks to be in a fairly sympathetic style. If it works (and blends) tonally, I suppose that they could consider retaining it. One does not have to use it.
For the record (and to make Pierre's day) I would not recommend adding any type of chamade rank to this organ....
A new console built into the casework was the sort I was thinking of, except not having the stops in horizontal rows. I would've had the stop jambs parallel to the manuals, but now I know that Lewis consoles would have had the horizontal, I think that's better.
About the only 2 stops I would add would have to be a Trumpet 8' on the Gt and a Lewis style Posaune 16' on the Pedal, and I would probably remove the Acoustic 32' and possibly the Fifteenth & flute 4' on the pedal.
JA
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Hi
I'd suggest returning it to it's original Lewis state as far as possible.
Every Blessing
Tony
I'm going to have a talk to the organ factory director and ask him if he has any more info about who built which parts of the organ. The dates were actually Lewis 1885 and Croft 1935.
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Install the missing Swell Bourdon (preferably using a redundant T.C. Lewis rank).
Restore it without making any other changes - except for a new console.
.... and thank God that you have this (largely) untouched example of his work.
Its a very nice organ to play, except when I last played it when erected in factory, there was a huge amount of wind leaks somewhere from the main bellows. I know for certain that Croft would have changed the action to electro-pneumatic, and added the 4-ft extensions to the pedal openwood & subbass. He also added the Acoustic 32 and the Choir organ.
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A university in the North Island, New Zealand has brought a T.C. Lewis 1883, rebuilt by George Croft 1930 something as a three-man, and they are planning to install it in there concert hall.
They've already got a speci planned for rebuilding, but I would like to know what everyone would do if this was your instrument.
The current speci is:
Great
Open Diapason 8
Lieblich Gedackt 8
Salicional 8
Octave 4
Harmonic Flute 4 (stopped bass till TC)
Fifteenth 2
Swell to Great
Swell to Great Octave
Choir to Great
Swell
Bourdon 16 (was prepared for and never installed)
Geigen Diapason 8
Rohr Flute 8
Gamba 8
Voix Celeste 8 (TC)
Principal 4
Horn 8
Oboe 8
Tremulant (affects Gt aswell)
Octave
Sub Octave
Choir
Lieblich Gedackt 8
Dulciana 8
Flute 4
Piccolo 2
Clarinet 8
Tremulant
Octave
Sub Octave
Pedal
Acoustic Bass 32
Open Diapason 16
Sub Bass 16
Octave 8
Bass Flute 8
Fifteenth 4
Flute 4
Great to Pedal
Swell to Pedal
Choir to Pedal
Electro-Pneumatic action, balanced mechanical swell pedals to Swell & Choir
3 Toe Pistons to Gt & Ped, and 3 to Sw
3 Thumb Pistons to Gt & Ped, and 3 to Sw, rev. pistons to Sw to Gt & Gt to Ped
Three manual console (lower man pretty much just tacked onto bottom) with stop keys. Its pretty much an attached console and is located about 1meter to the side of Choir box.
Have fun!
Layout: Great at front, Swell behind Great soundboard, Choir on right side of organ about half a meter lower than Great, Ped Sub Bass 16-8-4 behind Swell box and Open Wood 16-8-4 behind that.
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Here is something for you:
If you ever came to New Zealand, which organ would you rather play out of these...
1) Wellington Town Hall - Norman & Beard 1906
2) Christchurch Cathedral - Hill, Norman & Beard 1924
3) Christchurch Town Hall - Rieger 1997
4) Dunedin Town Hall - Hill, Norman & Beard 1929? (http://www.cityofdunedin.com/organ/organ.htm)
If you do a bit of searching on the net you might find some of the others.
I could also send some specifications just let me know.
JA
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It could be worse. Did you ever hear about Mr and Mrs Soul who called their children Bob, Dick and Becky?
Even worse than that, there is a guy in USA and his name is Drew Peacock.
I think his parents musn't have liked him very much to give him a name like that.
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Well three of those are not that difficult to get on. I suggest you practice up your sample programme and be prepared to wait a few years; I would have thought that St.Paul's, Westminster Abbey and Bristol Cathedral might eventually have a slot for you if you approach tactfully.
One that has always eluded me is Durham Cathedral. I've been trying for years and haven't even been allowed to see the console.
One thing that I try to do to see different organs is go around on tuning trips with the local organ builders that I do work for after school and in holidays. There are a lot of old organs that are quite worth a look at around New Zealand.
I know the feeling about trying to see an organ but never get the chance. The organ in Christchurch Cathedral (NZ) is one that I heard a couple of weekends ago at the Organists' Association Congress, and it sounds absolutely fantastic, even though it is covered in plastic wraping because of renovations to Cathedral. Laszlo Attila Almasy was playing it, he really does a good job, but page turning for him is one heck of a job.
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My list would probably include:
St Sulpice, Paris
Bristol Cathedral
Westminster Abbey
St Paul's Cathedral, London
Wellington Town Hall, New Zealand (really nice original 1906 Norman & Beard)
Of course any large organ with more than 3manuals would be pretty nice to me, considering I've only played about 2 3manuals before.
JA
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Re: Adding a Pedal Trombone
What you could do if there isn't enough space in the organ for the pipes or wouldn't be good for tuning/maintenance is, add it in a case at the side of the organ.
An organ which I play was restored with additions in 1986 and the Trombone was added then in an extra case.
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Hi everyone.
My name is Josh Anderson (14), from Timaru in New Zealand.
My musical history: started learning piano when I was 5yrs, but then stopped when I was 10yrs and played around on the church organ quite a bit. Then when I moved to Timaru in 2004 I started getting pointers from the church organist, and then at the start of last year I started having lessons from John Hargraves (organist / organ builder). Have been playing once a month at my church (on a digital sadly) since last year and once a month playing for John's choir at his church from this year. My interest in Pipe organs has been going since I was about 4 or 5, and have started working at the South Island Organ Company (http://www.sioc.co.nz) in Timaru after school on Fridays, where I have been doing odd jobs that come up and going on tuning trips around Timaru, and I hope to learn to tune at some point.
Josh
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Due to the fact that pedal-action first pulls down rather than pushes up, it would be quite easy to use a low-friction, flexible cable as the first pull.....in other words.....something like a clutch or throttle cable in a car.
The toaster that I play uses magnetic reed switches on the Pedalboard, so what I could do if I had alot of free time would be to take the pedalboard out and place the magnets on a higher point of the pedal so the height of the console could be put up a bit. I am just over 6' and I also have the problem where my knees hit the bottom of the lower manual, so this could be something to look at.
JA
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Incidentally, Klais proposed adding a Donner 64' - a resultant reed - to Altenberg Cathedral. I'd be interested to hear whether this has actually been built and, if so, whether it works: I have never heard of a resultant reed before.
I think that the Atlantic City Midmer-Losh has the 64' Dulzian extended and has quint stops at 42-2/3', 21-1/3' etc, so if you used the 64' & 42-2/3' you could probably get a resultant 128' stop. Its sort of a resultant reed!
JA
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OK.....so what do you call a "21.2/3" register?
On the Atlantic City Midmer-Losh its called Sub Quint 21 1/3'
JA
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Except that if this were the intention it should be the Upper Choir that transfers to II and the Lower Choir to III rather than vice versa, yes?
You could be right, but I always thought that the Positif (or the Lower Ch at WA) would be on the 2nd manual unless you have another main division like the Grand Choeur or something like that.
If you have a look at the Westminster Abbey organ website it shows all the transfers there:
http://www.westminster-abbey.org/organ/org_specs/index.html
JA
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This is almost correct - it has a transfer Swell on Solo.
http://www.westminster-abbey.org/organ/org_specs/index.html
This is presumably to enable the use of the Upper Choir on Swell transfer, in order that this division cam function as a two-clavier department, played from the two middle claviers. Accompanimentally, I shoud imagine that this is quite a useful function.
Yes your right about this. It has the transfer couplers for Gt on Ch manual, Lower Ch on Gt manual, Upper Ch on Sw, Sw on Solo & Solo on Bombarde so you could have the manuals like they are in France etc.
JA
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One hates to be proved wrong, but I just have been.
I received an enquiry from someone about a large H&H from 1908. They mentioned a Swell to Solo coupler and my immediate reaction was 'they've got it wrong'. Because I had never seen one, I naturally assumed (being arrogant as well as reasonably well-travelled) that therefore such things did not exist and they had somehow muddled things up. In response, I have been sent a photo of the stop-jamb in question whcih is quite unequivocal. [Cynic goofs again!!]
In case anyone thinks I'm having them on, this link should give the spec.
http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=A01141
Anyway, to business!
1. Anyone seen this strange coupler anywhere else?
2. Why was it done?
I could be wrong, but I think the organ in Westminster Abbey might have a 'Swell to Solo' coupler. Its been a long time since I've seen that specification.
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The original cocktail cabinet was I think Rieger's in Ratzeburg Cathedral. There it's called "Rauschwerk" - to have a "Rausch" means to be raving drunk, but of course you international types all knew that already.
Somewhere here, but I am afraid that I have forgotten where, there is a stop labelled "Noli me tangere", but if you do, a dusty old foxtail swipes you in the face. And if you draw the "Vox strigis" on the organ of the catholic cathedral across the road here, a wooden owl appears from the side of the Rückpositif case and says "Hooo" rather plaintively.
Cheers
B
I heard about the 'Noli me tangere' stop, but what I heard was that if you pulled it out, the whole stop knob came out with the fox tail and you would have to get an organ builder to come and put it back in.
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The organ I play only has General pistons for some reason (mind you it is digital!).
I'd definitely prefer to have about 5 Divisionals depending on the size of the divisions which they affect and probably about the same number of Generals with a sequencer.
Toe pistons would be good, probably about the same numbers with Generals available on the SW side toe pistons by drawstop.
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I think Cavaille Coll uses colour on the stops knobs at St Sulpice. However when I tried to check this I came across the more interesting news that Daniel Roth had recently been awarded the Legion d'Honneur!
In the award he was quoted as having said "à Saint Sulpice, vous étiez au ciel"! - but we really new that already...?
See details for further information and a nice photo.
If you go to http://www.stsulpice.com/Docs/consolediag.pdf, you can see on this diagram that there is supposed to be colours on the console.
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On our FW Hautboy & Vox = Cromorne. To get Orch Oboe I use Sw Hautboy & Ch Viol De Gamba
I suppose it is probably different on every organ, just depends on the voicing probably. But like I said, I've never tried to make the Orchestral Oboe.
More Rebuilds
in Nuts and bolts
Posted
Hi everyone,
I've found another organ that is going to be rebuilt in the near future and would like to hear your thoughts ... again.
It was originally a Brindley & Foster 1900 or something with 2man. pneumatic action, then rebuilt by Bert Hayman 1940s or 50s with electro-pneumatic action, then rebuilt again in 1971 by South Island Organ Company (SIOC) when new stops were added, still as a 2man.
The 1971 rebuild included as far as I know a Nazard 2 2/3' on the Great, a Bourdon 16' extended from the Gt Stop'd Diap 8', a Fifteenth 4' and Octavin 2' on the Pedal from the Great Principal 8'. Also the Swell Oboe 8' was transposed to a Contra Oboe 16' TC.
As far as I know the organist who is also going to rebuild it at SIOC wants another manual added to it.
The Specification is:
Great
Bourdon 16' A
Principal 8' B
Stopped Diapason 8' A
Dulciana 8'
Octave 4'
Harmonic Flute 4'
Nazard 2 2/3'
Fifteenth 2'
Mixture III (poss. 17-19-22)
Swell to Great
Swell
Violin Diapason 8'
Rohr Flute 8'
Salicional 8'
Voix Celeste 8' TC
Gemshorn 4'
Lieblich Flute 4'
Flautina 2'
Larigot 1 1/3'
Contra Oboe 16' TC (orig. Oboe 8')
Cornopean 8'
Tremulant
Super Octave
Unison Off
Sub Octave
Pedal
Resultant Bass 32' C/D
Principal 16' C
Sub Bass 16' D
Octave 8' C
Bass Flute 8' D
Fifteenth 4' B
Octavin 2' B
Great to Pedal
Swell to Pedal
Ped to Gt Pistons
Ped to Sw Pistons
4 Toe Pistons to Pedal
4 Toe Pistons to Swell
4 Thumb Pistons to Great
4 Thumb Pistons to Swell
Rev. Thumb & Toe to SW to GT & GT to PED
The church it is installed in is quite large, I would say it would accomodate about 100 people since it has a gallery upstairs.
The organ would be installed in the Apse and would have about 12'-15' depth, probably about 10' width and at least 23' height and the screen which is in place at the moment would be taken down to show the organ's facade. The console would preferably be attached to the case.