JWAnderson
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Posts posted by JWAnderson
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Aha! Thank you for this link, Charles.
I have now found another Harrison organ whose console possesses curved stop-jambs. This makes five. (The Royal Festival Hall, Manchester Cathedral, The Cathedral and Abbey Church of Saint Alban, Coventry Cathedral and now the Church of Saint Thomas the Martyr, Newcastle-upon-Tyne.) Does anyone know of other H&H organs which have this feature?
St Paul's Cathedral, Melbourne
T. C. Lewis 1891, restored by H&H with new console with curved stop-jambs. Also had a HN&B console before this one.
Josh
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Loudest I've heard was Christchurch Cathedral, New Zealand Hill Norman & Beard 1926. The tuba is on 19" which is the loudest in the country at the moment.
JA
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Don't worry about the power; Klais can handle that ;-)
I'm sure they can. I can't wait until 2009 when the organ is going to be reinstalled.
JA
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How is doing the work on this organ?
Johannes Klais in Germany are doing the work, and as far as I know the work is scheduled to begin near the end of the year.
I played this organ a couple of years ago and I found it to be an all right organ, but does not have enough power to what it would have had in its Norman & Beard incarnation. I think it was a terrible mistake for Croft to rebuild it in the 70s. surprising that only 11 of the N&B ranks are still speaking, including the two 32' flue ranks. If anyone wants the current specification or N&B one, let me know.
JA
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I learned this evening that it is possible to purchase an 'expander box' containing a library of a hundred stops, any sixteen of which can be used at any one time. If this is fitted to a standard console, with keys, pedal board and stops, it makes an inexpensive practice instrument. The total cost of the hardware, assuming a second-hand console was used, could be less than £3,500.
I hope to see one of these set up shortly. If it is satisfactory I will post details, as this may be a suitable and affordable solution to the problem of home organ practice.
Barry Williams
Rodgers Instruments make the MX-200, which has around 100 organ stops and about 7 or 8 hundred orchestral sounds.
I don't think this would be any good if this was what you were thinking of.
My church has one of these on the Rodgers, which is fine for using with other stops on the organ but probably not by itself.
JA
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I hope I may be excused for resurrecting this thread in the hope that Richard may notice it.
This is something of particular interest to me.
John
John,
Was just wondering if you heard anything about the 16-ft Diapason and its location within the organ?
Would be great to know, as this thread has become very interesting.
JA
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Thanks everyone for your comments.
It seems to look a lot easier than it actually is for me, but shouldn't take too long to learn.
JA
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Lovely piece.
I imagine this is readily available, after all I found both books of the 24 pieces in free style in my local music shop. It can also be found online:
http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Vierne%2C_Louis (assuming this does not infringe any copyright laws).
Thank you very much Dulciana. Exactly what I wanted.
JA
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Hello everyone,
I have been reading another topic and there was a mention of Vierne's Berceuse, which as it happens is a piece I have been trying to find for quite a while.
So my question is: Does anyone know where I could purchase it or get a copy off the internet???
I first heard this piece on the 1998 Atlantic City Convention Hall Organ CD, and it has been one of the pieces I've been trying to find since then, so if anyone could help that would be great.
Josh A
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Hi
Not necessarily - I've seen a trumpet extended 16-8-4 & duplexed to pedals at 8ft all in pneumatic action (via a pneumatic relay) - and that was in an organ where everything else, including a Nave Department, was tracker. It wasn't working at the time - the relays had been taken out of use and the stop was only available at 8ft on the Swell (and didn't work even then because the leather had disintegrated).
Having said that, if tracker isn't an option, I would go for electro-pneumatic action rather than full pneumatic any day.
Every Blessing
Tony
Yes Tony, you would be right about this although I have never seen any examples of this.
But I suppose if they can extend the pedal stops, then they can definately do this on the manuals and borrow at the same time.
Tracker would possibly be an option on this, but one thing I would want to avoid would be a heavy action.
JA
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This is extremely unwise (and may affect any insurance claim if accidental damage ensues). Allowing even small groups of children access to the interior of an organ can be fraught with problems. There are many parts which could be damaged inadvertently. Organs are also dangerous places. If a child were to become injured (for example, by falling off a passage board) the church would be liable.
By all means have fun - but be practical and realistic.
I definately agree with you about organs being dangerous places.
If I am tuning I never let anyone under 15yrs old into the organ because of the dangers, but I generally let tuning assistants in if there is a lot of work to be done inside.
Some organs I have encountered with free-standing cases have the Pedal bass pipes accessible on the outside of the case, so this "wack-a-mole" idea could be possible if this is the case.
JA
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An interesting Romantic scheme - on paper there looks to be the potential for plenty of tonal variety and colour.
Since you have specified a Tromba on the G.O., why not simply make it available on the Choir Organ - this is somewhat cheaper than the expense of a fourth clavier. However, I would suggest that the Tromba be voiced brighter than might be expected with such stops. The Harrison-style ranks of this name have limited musical use.
I would probably omit the 32p reed - unless the building which you have in mind for this instrument is large (and perhaps with some resonance), the effect may be too heavy.
I further note that the Pedal Principal is extended from the Open Diapason Wood; as such, it may be more helpful to call it an Octave Wood. I suspect that this stop may 'woof' unhelpfully - just like the 'survivor' at Exeter Cathedral. The late Graham Steed once used this (together with one or two 16p basses) in order to announce the theme of JSB's Passacaglia, in C minor. The effect was less than edifying.
Yes the Tromba could be available on the Choir, but this would mean changing the pneumatic action to electro-pneu. but I for some reason prefer pneumatics than electronic actions. I had chosen a Tromba because I had heard a really brilliant one in June. It was either a Bishop or most probably Norman & Beard from when they rebuilt the organ in 1912. A solo division would be possible on electric action. The HN&B organ at Christchurch Cathedral NZ has only a three manual console but a Solo organ is available on the Choir manual. Obviously this would have some effects but it still works.
The 32' Posaune would be able to be changed to a Fagotto 16, borrowed from the Sw but this would be possible with pneu. action.
About the Ped. Principal 8, I was planning to have that stop in a Brindley & Foster style with notes 1-12 made from Wood and then 13-30 in Metal.... I think that's how they did it??
I don't think I would add a Dulciana on the Great, since the clarabella would be quite capable of accompanying the solo voices.
JA
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Here is my spec:
Great Organ
1 Double Open Diapason 16 A
2 LGE Open Diapason 8
3 SML Open Diapason 8
4 Clarabella 8
5 Principal 4
6 Wald Flute 4
7 Twelfth 2 2/3
8 Fifteenth 2
9 Mixture III (17.19.22)
10 Tromba 8
Swell to Great
Swell Super Oct to Great
Swell Sub Oct to Great
Choir to Great
Swell Organ
11 Lieblich Bourdon 16 B
12 Violin Diapason 8
13 Rohr Flote 8
14 Salicional 8
15 Voix Celeste 8 T.C.
16 Gemshorn 4
17 Lieblich Flote 4
18 Fifteenth 2
19 Mixture III (15.19.22)
20 Contra Fagotto 16
21 Horn 8
22 Oboe 8
23 Vox Humana 8
24 Clarion 4
Tremulant
Octave
Sub Octave
Choir Organ
25 Lieblich Gedackt 8
26 Dulciana 8
27 Vox Angelica 8 T.C. or Gamba 8
28 Harmonic Flute 4
29 Piccolo 2
30 Clarinet 8
Tremulant
Swell to Choir
Pedal Organ
31 Contra Bourdon 32 C
32 Open Diapason Wood 16 D
33 Violone 16 A
34 Bourdon 16 C
35 Echo Bourdon 16 B
36 Principal 8 D
37 Bass Flute 8 C
38 Contra Posaune 32 E
39 Trombone 16 E
40 Trumpet 8 E
Great to Pedal
Swell to Pedal
Choir to Pedal
Pressure-Pneumatic Action
4 Composition Pedals to Pedal & Great
5 Composition Pedals to Swell
4 Thumb Pistons to Choir
4 Thumb Pistons to Great & Pedal
5 Thumb Pistons to Swell
Reversible Thumb Pistons & Pedals to Sw to Gt & Gt to Ped
I had thought about adding a Solo with Harm. Claribel 8, flute 4 & Tuba 8 but ran out of stops, but I think that the Tromba could be voiced to be used as a chorus reed & a solo reed, possibly on a higher pressure.
JA
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This would suggest to me that you have not experienced good, state-of-the art instruments. The reeds on our Wyvern-Pheonix are absolutely superb, as are the flutes & diapasons. I don't believe anyone would consider the full organ to be "Foggy". Our loudspeakers sit clearly visible and undisguised on large shelves in the north transept. If we happened to have an attractive pipe front from a former instrument I would see no harm in using it, but we don't.
Since the organ was installed (in 2006) there have been a number of occasions upon which visitors, including other organists, have come to talk to me at the console, from where the battery of loudspeakers are clearly visible, demanding to know where the pipes are. This custom built 42 stop instrument cost us a little over £25K (details available here) . Only one UK manufacturer charges £50K+ for similar instruments.
Personally I would struggle to see any use for an alternative Theatre Organ specification on our instrument at church. It might be fun at home though!
I am sure that your organ would have better reeds, diapasons & flutes than mine since my church's Rodgers is probably over 15 years old now.
The speakers are installed where the old pipe organ was behind a screen at the front of the church, but if this has an impact on the sound, I don't know.
I would definately like the church to get a customised organ once the Rodgers dies, but that could be quite a while away at the moment.
JA
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Question: if the electronic stuff is "every bit as good as" a genuine pipe organ and if the electronic stuff "doesn't sound any different from" a genuine pipe organ, WHY is it dressed up with sham pipes to give the impression of its being a genuine pipe organ?
Thats the problem, they will never be as good as a genuine pipe organ. The only good stops on some electronic organs are the flutes, but the reeds are absolute rubbish.
All the electronics I've played are all right organs, but try playing something in full organ, the tone all goes 'foggy' and it sounds terrible.
JA
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To bring this topic back if anyone is interested, I have just received the original specification of the Brindley & Foster Organ.
GREAT ORGAN
Open Diapason 8
Hohl Flute 8
Dulciana 8 (common bass with flute)
Octave 4
Harmonic Flute 4
Swell to Great
SWELL ORGAN
Bourdon 16
Violin Diapason 8
Lieblich Gedackt 8
Salicional 8
Voix Celeste 8 TC
Gemshorn 4
Flautina 2
Horn 8
Oboe 8
Tremulant
Octave
Sub Octave
PEDAL ORGAN
Open Diapason 16
Bourdon 16 A
Bass Flute 8 A
Great to Pedal
Swell to Pedal
Pneumatic Action throughout
JA
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Well, we should have a vote on some or all of the following:-
A combination of organists
A rank of organists
A pipe of organists
A bellow of organists
A BWV-y of organists
A blockwerk of organists
A tutti of organists
A gallery of organists
A loft of organists (I like that one! Sort of high minded, remote and difficult to evict)
A swell of organists
A voluntary of organists
A couplet of organists
========================
Widening the criteria slightly, I wonder what "a loft of organists" would eat and drink at a party?
I think it would have to include mushroom horns, sortie potatoes, baked shallots and flutes of Cliquot champagne!
MM
Definately, a loft of organists! Although a rank of organists could be a good one.
JA
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I used to sell Rodgers back in the early 1990s and their original machines were nice, but I find they're now obviously showing their Italian birth sound wise. (On the less expensive instruments anyway).
Oliver.
My Rodgers has had quite a few problems in the 11 years that the church has had it, e.g. failing completely because of lightning storm, or uneveness of regulation of flues. There are some nice stops like the flutes, but the reeds sound horrible to my ears.
I would prefer the church to get a Wyvern or something else. Does anyone know if Wyvern organs are sold in the southern hemisphere?
JA
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BWV565 at.
Some organ ...
I agree, it is an absolutely fantastic organ. In my opinion, one of the best with Barker Lever action.
If you have a look here you can find some more info about it.
JA
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Wyvern Sonata including the reversible toe pistons and departmental pistons
The Methodist church which I play at has a Rodgers 751. Not really the best organ but does what the church needs it to do.
I'd much rather replace it with a pipe organ.
JA
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Yes exactley that. You may be able to just make them out on another picture I supplied at:
This is very interesting. Out of all the 20 or so Positive organs in NZ I have never come across one with the harmonium style pedals.
JA
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Many years ago I recall that someone from HNB moved one of these things and put an electric blower on to relieve the organist of having to supply the wind for him/herself. He never could get the Melodic Bass to work properly and came to the conclusion that it required turbulence in the wind supply in order to operate OK. In several I have seen the mechanical bits just keep going but the pneumatics have usually given up years ago. Can't say I like the sounds but they seem good workhorses and surley the next things up from American Organs or Harmoniums.
When you say 'the organist having to supply the wind for him/herself' do you mean using the pedals like on Harmoniums? All the Positive organs in New Zealand that I know of have the hand pump, but of course this would be inconvenient if no one was available to operate it. Most of the ones SIOC have restored have had electric blowers added, but still retain the hand pump. The pneumatics are a real nusence on the melodic stops, since they have to be either cleaned or replaced every 20 or so years. But if I added a pedalboard I would possibly have to keep the pneumatics since the Bourdon pipes are divided six either side of the organ.
One problem with the Positive organs is that they are quite a nusence to tune e.g. removing the swell box back panel etc.
JA
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I had to play Widor's Toccata on one of those Positive Organ Company thingies. There was nothing 'positive' about it. If they supply the Bourdon pipes, they may as well supply the pedalboard.
I agree about that. I am thinking about restoring a redundant one for home use, but a pedal board is one thing I definately would install. The only thing is I would have to supply extra 18 Bourdon pipes as they only use 12 for the Melodic Bass. Sounds like quite a bit of work but would probably be worth it.
JA
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Pedal to Great (or automatic bass) gadgets can be supplied by pipe organ builders. I've seen some.
This technology is not expensive either.
A lot of builders install those. The South Island Organ Company in New Zealand which I work for, did use Muldersoft Transmission systems and they had the ability to use Auto-Pedal / Ped to Gt etc.
If anyone here knows of the Positive Organ Company, London, their one-manual organs had the 'Melodic Bass' which was a pneumatic system so you would get the impression of playing the pedals aswell. Their specifications were normally around Open 8, Flute Bass 8, Flute Treble 8, Viol 8, Dulcet Bass & Treble 4.
They normally included Melodic Diap 8 or Viol 8 which were also pneumatic and the rest of the manual action was mechanical.
JA
Auckland Town Hall Organ In New Zealand
in General discussion
Posted
I agree about it being a terrible instrument, there was so much colour in the old N&B instrument which was lost, a lot of solo stops as well like the Tubas.
Also the 32' wooden Posaune was taken out and replaced which was pretty stupid. Another thing I don't get is why they got rid of the 4rk Mixture on the Great and replaced it with a 3rk.
JA