innate
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Posts posted by innate
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Being ancient and ignorant, I don't know what "numpty" means. My copy of the New Oxford English Dictionary doesn't help, so in the spirit of Humphrey Lyttleton's Uxbridge Dictionary, I've decided a numpty is actually the name given to the hole half way along a harmonic pipe. As to the original question, I'm sorry, I haven't a clue!
JC
I've only been aware of "numpty" in the last 2-3 years and I think I've only seen it online, never in real life. I've assumed it means something along the lines of ignorant novice, often in the world of new technologies. In fact you are probably a bit numpty yourself, John.
These days, you can normally find the meaning of a word using a search engine such as Google in less time than it takes to get up and find the dictionary.I think the hole halfway down a harmonic flute should be called a kavike-hole.
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Please can I haul this thread back to insurance situations.
Would a church be allowed to buy an electric/electronic organ as a replacement for a pipe organ if the policy was like-for-like? And presumably in the C of E a faculty would be required.
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£10 for a lesson does seem remarkably cheap if this was an hourly rate. However for most organists a fee of £30-£40 an hour would be quite unrealistic.
What you can charge depends on two things: 1) who you are and 2) where you are. Perhaps such rates are possible in London, but elsewhere I would suggest that, unless you are of sufficient repute to attract pupils from a very wide area, you will be unable to charge significantly more than other instrumental teachers in your area. Where I live, £25 an hour would be pushing it, though it would be comparable to what I have paid for osteopathy and physiotherapy and other forlorn attempts to keep my body functioning.
Recently I paid £60 for a first session with a cranial osteopath in London. Were I to return the rate would be £50 an hour. I think some top-rank instrumental and singing teachers charge at least £60; for some singing teachers you may have to pay for the pianist as well. I suspect for musicians that don't derive most of their income from teaching, setting a high rate will discourage the less-motivated; on the other hand, the poor student might well be taught on a pro bono basis.
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Many apologies. Yes, the code doesn't include the urls. I'll try and correct them tonight when I'm back home. Anyone who can't wait can use Google
Here are the plain urls as I ca't get the Post Link feature to work:
http://www.jennings-organs.co.uk/pages/chu...ouse_organs.htm
http://www.orgues-bancells.com/show?ar_id=26
http://www.renschorgelbau.com/ click on Übungsorgeln
http://www.carliorgani.it/practice5.htm
http://www.ferraresi-organi.com/stud1e.html
http://jameslouder.com/_wsn/page4.html
http://www.harrison-organs.co.uk/storr.htm
http://www.huisorgelbouw.nl/page/Orgelpositief_2/
Hope this works.
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Trio sonatas take on a whole new clarity with added Chrysaglot percussion over a proper 8ft string bass.
It's quite good fun if you have a MIDI keyboard to play Bach clavier music on a drumkit or multi-percussion patch with a different sound on each note. Playing a trio sonata on a similarly-equipped two-man and ped organ would be hilarious.
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Your links do not seem to work innate - shame as it would have been interesting to see what was at the end of them!
Many apologies. Yes, the code doesn't include the urls. I'll try and correct them tonight when I'm back home. Anyone who can't wait can use Google
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I've been looking around on the forum and have not really found much (or maybe I just missed it) on house organs, but I apoligise if I have repeated another topic.
So I want to know what your dream house organ would be like.
There were a couple of threads a while ago on this subject but I could happily contribute a new dream spec every week. Off the top of my head, today's wouldn't-it-be-luvverly:
GREAT
Italian Principal 8'
Spitzflute 4'
Fifteenth 2'
Echo to Great (shove coupler)
ECHO (for want of a better name)
Bourdon 8'
Flute 4' (open)
Nazard 2 2/3'
Quarte de Nazard 2'
Tierce 1 3/5'
tremulant
PEDAL
Flute 8'
Bassoon 16'
Great to Pedal
Echo to Pedal
Manuals CC-c 61 notes
Pedal CC-f 30 notes
I don't know if the Echo should be enclosed.
The Great would be voiced quite sweetly.
The Bassoon would be the loudest stop on the instrument.
I would have to move house to accommodate this one, I think.
edited to add: THESE LINKS AREN'T WORKING AT THE MOMENT. COME BACK TOMORROW!
Hoping I'm not abusing our host's hospitality, some house and practice organs can be found:
Bancells (in French)
Richard Rensch (click on Übungsorgeln)
Rini Wimmenhove (in Dutch)
The James Louder (great name for an organ builder) instrument has an Open Flute 8' as its sole pedal stop. As an open 8' must take up approximately the same space as a stopped 16' can anyone suggest the pros and cons? I know a stopped 16' can't really be used on its own as it produces no 8' tone; that might be the clincher for me.
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I like this scheme very much. As for the extra Sw stop, I don't have much time for 16' flues, so I would be torn between a 4' flute and a Vox Humana. I guess the repertoire more or less dictates the latter.
If space isn't a problem (except on the stopjambs!) I would go for a 16' Bourdon, although a 4' flute, a Vox Humana, or a softer 16' reed would all be contenders for that last drawstop.
Aside: it seems there is no convention for the capitalisation of organ stop names. Are they proper nouns, like Matthew, or instruments, like violin?
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Anyone going to Westminster Abbey tomorrow to hear Simon Preston's recital?
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In the charging-for-organ-practice thread someone wrote: "The same applies to charging for the use of the organ for lessons: I've had three teachers in the last decade, none charging more than £10 a lesson. Two of them are FRCO, one of whom is an ex-Cambridge organ scholar. The suggested charge for use of the organ would double the price!"
I live in London and I suppose everything is more expensive here, but £10 a lesson seems remarkably cheap. My daughter's piano lessons are £24 and my wife charges £28 or £30 per hour pro rata. It's possible that these rates deter some from learning but music teachers should consider themselves professionals on a par with doctors and lawyers, in my opinion. As a performer I would be reluctant to work for less than £30 ph; £40 is what I would charge for coaching.
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I would dispute Paul's suggestion that high-pitched Mixture are "ridiculous" however, but they do need a fairly special voicer.
If one looks at Alkmaar for instance, you will find a Pedal 8 rks Mixture, with the following composition:-
Ped Mixtuur VIII:
C 1-1/3 1 2/3 1/2 1/3 1/4 1/6 1/6
G 2 1-1/3 1 2/3 1/2 1/3 1/4 1/4
c0 2-2/3 2 1-1/3 1 2/3 1/2 1/3 1/3
g0 4 2-2/3 2 1-1/3 1 2/3 1/2 1/2 .
c' 4 2-2/3 2 1-1/3 1 1 2/3 2/3
This translates AT MANUAL PITCH to the following:-
19.22.26.29.33.36.40.40
15.19.22.26.29.33.33.36
12.15.19.22.26.29.33.33
8 12 15,19.22.26.29.29
8.12.15.19.22.22.26.26
"Ridiculous" though it may seem, I have never heard anyone complain about it yet!!!!!!!!
Accepting the earlier point about pedal mixtures and the lack of manual couplers, the above composition would appear to be completely appropriate as the top of a pedal chorus of (32) 16 8 (5 1/3) 4 2. Indeed, who would not, on an an organ equipped with them, draw the Positive or Great Scharff or Cymbale and the appropriate pedal coupler as part of organo pleno? The organ I play regularly would be more improved by the addition of a pedal mixture (of at least 5 ranks) than almost anything else.
I have no expertise in this matter but I was under the impression (perhaps from Sumner) that pedal mixtures generally didn't have breaks, so I was surprised to see four breaks at Alkmaar described above.
It isn't particularly fashionable to compare the organ with the orchestra but one has only to listen to the rich array of upper partials in the timbre of cello, bassoon, double bass, and trombone to realise how much needs to be added to 16, 8 and 4 pedal departments to produce a similar richness of bass tone.
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The 'Mozart Effect' was recognised in 1994 when educationalists realised that the skills acquired by learning to sing and play an instrument have a significant effect on other learning. The research was done by Agnes Chan in the Chinese University of Hong Kong and subsequently by Professor Glenn Schellenberg of Toronto University. I suspect that a number of unwilling infants are pressed into church and cathedral choirs by slightly ambitious parents for this reason.
If by the 'Mozart Phenomenon ' it is meant that as one gets older people lose interest then there was certainly a reason for it in Mozart's case, though his talent seemed to increase. (Bach suffered also, but because his music became old-fashioned.) The sheer pathos of K594 and K608, both written towards the very end of Mozart's short life, bear promise of even greater things that we were denied by his very early death. The ingratiating Andante and three variations in the middle of K608 must comprise some of the finest music ever written for the King of Instruments, matched only by the double fugue that follows and, of course, the Great JSB.
I heard that the "Mozart Effect", meaning an increase in the measurable IQ of children who had been exposed to the music of Mozart, had been discredited, to the extent that the measurable increase was not long-term.
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Isn't it interesting this? I asked a simple question and over half the replies are nothing to do with the question I asked. Wouldn't it be good if folks could stick to the topic?
You've already admitted your error in mentioning BMWs. One of the posts in the thread is from you where you'd pressed Add Reply before replying. First remove the mote...
I have to say that the topic was covered pretty thoroughly in the first few posts. If you just wanted a survey you should have said so. I'd say £5 per hour unless you are still at school, a student, unwaged, or prepared to help out with services in an emergency. If the teacher is on the staff of the church lessons should not incur a charge, if not it should be £5 or £10 per hour depending on how much is being charged for the lesson.
Given ajt's comment, could you let us know if this now a thread about charging for organ practice or about the interestingness or otherwise of sticking to the topic?
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I would have thought either turning the power off or on, or preferably both, should effect a general cancel.
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Why do we so seldom hear the music of Flor Peeters these days, which if not the greatest of all organ-music, is wonderfully lyrical and often very atmospheric?
The 10 Christmas chorale preludes (Op 39) that finish with the variations on King Jesus Has A Garden are favourites of mine. They are all dedicated to European titulaires. I would agree with the "lyrical" and "atmospheric" and would add "harmonically spicy and deft". As these are the only Peeters in my collection I would welcome suggestions of other pieces that could be used during and after services.
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Whilst on the subject of p...... sorry....brewers.......I bet Barry doesn't know that "Mr Bass" was one of the co-petitioners to the House of Commons, who managed to get the "Street Act" of 1880 something onto the statute books, which banished buskers and "street-organs."
The miserable old sop!
Now we have to go to Holland to hear those chirpy street organs churning out their jaunty melodies.
Guess who was the other co-petitioner?
No lesser man than Charles Babbage, who was as nutty as fruit-bat apparently, and who would slam his window shut at the slightest musical noise outside.
It's ironic to think that the modern day computer-organ is a direct result of his efforts.
Maybe we should start another thread, but I found this fascinating, MM. Babbage has always been a hero in my family, my father having started teaching A-level Computer Science in the early 1970s. And presumably Mr Bass of the Street Act of 1880 couldn't be the same one that paid for the ghastly Hope-Jones in Burton-on-Trent, could he?
Despite the 1880 act there were piano buskers in the 1930s on the streets of London. One such was playing Marigold by Billy Mayerl and was amazed when Mayerl opened the window and gave him £5. This was a thoughtless thing for Mayerl to do as the busker told his mates and for months his street was beset by hopeful renditions of Marigold.
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I had been pondering this point myself over the last couple of days (I am a very poor improviser). I can hear ideas in my head but don't yet have the harmonisation skills to translate them into music on the fly.
What's a good way of acquiring this "full control of harmony in every single key"? Aside from theoretical study, is it taking time out to practice harmonising familar hymns and others tunes in a variety of keys by ear? Any other suggestions?
I worked with a jazz musician in New York City a couple of years ago who told me about a pianist he knew who could improvise in a contrapuntal manner in many different styles. Apparently he had acquired this facility in part by methodically practising Bach's 48 transposing each piece into every key with the result that his fingers could find their way from anywhere to anywhere harmonically using something close to Bach's counterpoint.
Alternatively you could adopt the method of the German baroque musicians (I'm a little hazy about the details of this) which combined figured bass realisation at the keyboard with counterpoint, a method that resulted in the average parish church organist being able to improvise 4-part fugues at the drop of a hat; the results may have been formulaic to some extent (apparently JSB would listen to such fugues with his sons "marking" (like Hans Sachs) each fugal device as it went past) but completely, if you will pardon the pun, serviceable.
Both the above methods will require some considerable level of application.
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I'd love to use Sibelius but its just too expensive. Unless you're a serious composer doing a lot of type-setting, or just seriously rich, I don't see how the cost can be justified. It strikes me that its a rip-off.
I use a little known program - Capella - that's more than adequate for my needs. The latest version has xml import/export which allows data to be shared with Sibelius which is useful for my daughter who has to use Sibelius for her A-level work at school. The student version of Sibelius, still seriously expensive, is useless for A-level as its too cut down, whereas she can do everything she needs in Capella.
Having resisted jumping on the Sib juggernaut for many years I finally gave in when they had a £200 price reduction before Christmas so I got it for £399. I don't think the RRP is any more of a rip-off than any other major piece of software; I heard that Coda who make Finale didn't make a profit for about the first 15 years the program was on sale. The development of niche programs must be almost as precarious as organ-building. I certainly think that Micro$oft software is much more of a rip-off.
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I am seriously considering getting this software, as from what I can see it is ideally suitable for one working as a church musician. Unlike Sibelius it doesn't offer a full orchestration facility, but does offer SATB, organ (three stave) as well as other features including playback. Has anybody here had experience of it? One organist I know (not on this forum) rates it very highly. (I hope this doesn't count as advertising? If so please let me know.)
I have no experience of Music Publisher but, for a church musician, something that allows you to "break the rules" (from its website) sounds rather useful. Things such as Responsorial Psalms and other liturgical music don't always suit more conventional programs such as Sibelius or Finale. And it transposes.
On the other hand you might want to think about long term implications. I've moved from Composer's Mosaic (Mark of the Unicorn), through Igor Engraver (Noteheads) to, about six months ago, Sibelius. The first two programs are now orphaned with no possibility of them running on modern computers so much of the work I have done in them is now unusable. Sibelius, however, is a major player and, as far as it is possible to predict these things, should be going strong for decades. Certainly the existing customer base is so large it will be profitable for someone to provide a file converter to whatever happens to be the industry standard in years to come. The fact that I can now, when really busy, put work out to professional copyists and get back files that I can keep and edit is a real life-saver for me.
If you are wondering what made me go with two such unusual programs in the first (and second) place, the killer feature for me was integrated (dynamic) score and parts [change a note in a part, it is automatically changed in the score and vice versa]. This has always seemed to me to be a sine qua non of computer music engraving, and now Sibelius has the feature too. I'm not sure whether Finale has got to that stage yet. On this side of the Atlantic Sibelius seems to have become the de facto standard whereas in the US it seems to be the other way around.
Another thing to bear in mind is that Braeburn Software, that makes Music Publisher, is one man and his wife. As long as they are around you will get first-rate support (particularly for church music as he is an organist and choirmaster), but they won't be around for ever.
Hope this helps.
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I didn't hear the broadcast in question and I don't know the Trinity College organ, nevertheless I'm surprised by the assertion that the Gloucester Cathedral organ, in its post HNB form, might be considered ideal for Howells. I'm very aware that some correspondents will be frustrated that I should raise this issue, but would imagine that Howells would have sided with Sumsion on the subject of the HNB/Downes rebuild, and it is surely beyond any question the post-HNB sound was not in any way close to what Howells had in mind for the Gloucester service.
Perhaps I didn't express myself clearly. I don't think I meant that the sound was right for Howells, I meant that the sound was right for an organ
. It was supportive for the choir, and exciting, and musical. I don't think it's an accident that the earliest organs were Blockwork; the basic sound of a good organ is a full chorus. In my opinion.I realise that I am going against my own principles of authenticity here. For the last 30 years I have been a firm believer in using historically accurate instruments, using the music and the organs of the baroque as a prime example. Now I risk the wrath of Pierre and many others here by suggesting that an authentic early-mid C20 instrument may not be the best for early-mid C20 music. Flame protectors <ON>.
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Yesterday I heard bits of Choral Evensong on BBC Radio 3 from Trinity College, Cambridge but as I only turned on during the second lesson I didn't know which choir and organ were involved until the end.
I found the accompaniment to the Howells Gloucester Service Nunc Dimittis just right. I thought "Yes, this is what proper organs should sound like; plenty of upperwork!" whilst imagining it to be, perhaps, Gloucester Cathedral. The choir was impressive too; it never crossed my mind that the top line might be adult women.
What did sound strange was the concluding voluntary Kyrie Gott Heiliger Geist from CÜIII. There seemed to be an unsteadiness to the winding (caused perhaps by the use of manual doubles) which I didn't like at all, although in principle I am in favour of natural winding. It's possible that the effect I was hearing was actually caused by something in the recording or broadcasting process or in my car radio
so I'd be interested in what others thought.I just tried the "listen again" facility on the Radio 3 website but the quality was not good and I gave up.
I once spent a couple of hours on this organ and thought it fabulous although I barely scratched the surface of its potential.
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Thank you, Patrick.
No, I do not use Norton (since it used to argue with about half the programmes on my computer). I use AVG and Zone Alarm - basically because they do not quarrel and they are free.
So does anyone have any idea how I can persuade MSIE (6.0) or Mozilla Firefox (2.0) to remember me on this board, please?
I use a variety of Apple Macs and none of them persuade this board to remember me
, although I have no problem with similar boards on other sites. One even knew it was me after I'd got a brand new computer and used the built-in software to copy everything from the old one!On the other hand I've never suffered from computer viruses or spyware or trojans and have never felt that I should buy Norton.
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Recently an aquaintance turned up for recital at a local church to find 62 out of 64 channels locked (though the key was present). I have had the same experience at cathedrals where the 'visitor channels' are locked . In these circumstances I unlock them and try to return them to what they were. (Assuming I had time to write it down - not always possible given limited console time).
At 'home' we have a regular clean up in which all locked channels (other than the permanently allcoated ones) have to be reclaimed - its surprising how many are freed up each time (and no-one can remember using them!!!)
Given that more than a few of us, I would imagine, already carry around a small USB memory stick, it would be a small matter, I presume, to fit a USB socket into the combination system and then we could dispense with locking altogether. You always have your combinations with you, ready to plug into your own organ. The real advantage would come if there was some sort of combination standard, like GEDCOM for genealogy files, whereby plugging your combinations into a strange organ would render a first guess which could then be adjusted. I would imagine many of us have Clarinet on the highest numbered Choir piston, for example.
In case some of you have no idea what I'm talking about, a USB memory stick is about half the size of a disposable cigarette lighter and stores computer data, up to about 2-4000 times as much as could be stored on an old floppy disk. They cost about £20.
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Sorry, but I think doing that will stifle a lot of discussion on here.
I was wondering if the "General Discussion" category is a bit loose, for want of a better word. I think the threads on the other two categories are generaly more "on topic" as the topics are held in place by category more strongly. General Discussion implies anything is fair game and we need no further encouragement to go off on wild tangents. Please feel free to disagree with this analysis. I suppose what I am suggesting are one or two more categories for serious discussions of things that currently fall under General Discussion umbrella leaving General Discussion for a more serendipitous style of discussion.
Anyone familiar with the discussion pages on Ship of Fools will know how tightly some of the categories are controlled by the hosts and how freely others are allowed to spread.
These days, you can normally find the meaning of a word using a search engine such as Google in less time than it takes to get up and find the dictionary.
Bodge-it-yourself House Organs
in Nuts and bolts
Posted
I've spent time working out the number of available combinations (including solo stops) available on my own, never realised, small stoplists - once you start diving the stops treble and bass the maths can get quite complicated.
I can imagine the wrong kind of Open Diapason being less than useful in a house organ, such that 8+8 is not noticeably different from the OD on its own, nor 8+8+4 from OD+4. On the other hand open and stopped diapasons together is a central part of the English organ sound so may be worth keeping. On the third hand 8+4+2 and 8+2 are my favourite sounds.