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Pierre Lauwers

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Posts posted by Pierre Lauwers

    A british style of organ deisgn/building/eveloution

    in General discussion

    Posted

    The "Full Swell" in many british organs is something unheard of

    -and indeed never heard- on the continent. It is indeed a chorus,

    but not a "pure" one, because it is made with differing families

    of stops (like, by the way, the organs Bach played!).

    The example of St-Paul London is spectacular, and may serve as

    a case study; there, the 16-8-4 reeds+ a three ranks Cornet are

    enough to supersede any french Récit.

    The french Récit is louder than the british one when closed. Then, it produces

    a big "frying sausage" effect with its more "rattling" reeds. Rather than a muted sound,

    it conveys an impression of restrained power, "I could eat you alive if...".

    Once open, the reeds -as always- dominate anything else save the occasionnal Carillon.

    In Worcester, the brick Swell was impressive for its dynamic range; from a mere whisper

    to a thunder -those reeds were something rather special indeed-. Do not expect to find

    anything like that elsewhere.

     

    Those "Full Swells" belonged to the second Manual after the Great; here, again, the continental

    Récit/ Schwellwerk is the third manual in importance. The answer to the Great was rather

    the Positif, and, in Germany, with Abschwächungsprinzip organs whose manuals wore only numbers,

    the Schwellwerk was the Manual III.

     

    The St-Paul Full Swell, with its reed chorus and Cornet, is technically a "Grand-jeu". Dom Bédos

    would have recognized it as such. Walcker and Cavaillé-Coll organs are bigs "Grand-jeux" as

    a whole. In Britain, you need the Swell to Great coupler to get that, but you still have a

    "pure" Diapason chorus available on the I, though not without the reeds whenever the

    Mixture(s) is (are) drawn. One cannot have all.

     

    Pierre

    Manchester Cathedral

    in The Organ

    Posted

    Anyway, at least, the argumentation used to sale the idea of a new organ

    could have been printed 10,000 times, and issued regularly since about 1500,

    whenever "needed"; Standard operating procedure, standardized claims.

     

    Pierre

    A british style of organ deisgn/building/eveloution

    in General discussion

    Posted

    The very existence of this thread is quite interesting; you will never find

    anything like that on a french or german forum, as everyone there never

    questionned the fact there was, is, and will be, local styles of their own,

    despite the globalization of the culture.

    But does this mean the english/ british Orgellandschaft to be actually poorer

    than the continental ones ? And/or less interesting/ valuable/ worth ?

    Should someone who never went to Britain read this Discussions board, he could well

    be lead to that conclusion; same with much british litterature, among which W-L Sumner

    is an excellent example.

    There is, and always have been, something like a "we're just a little island" Mantra, despite

    the incredible historic achievments of the Empire, and this, even while this very empire

    ruled a third of the entire world -Globalization ? Anything new ?-.

     

    The history of the british organ is actually incredibly rich, varied, and extremely well documented

    compared with others interesting ones (think of the iberic peninsulae for example, for which we

    have near to nothing). But fact is, those riches were obtained with much borrowings from abroad:

    France, the Netherlands, Flanders, Southern Germany, central Germany, Spain/ Portugal, they all

    contributed to the various british organ styles in the course of time.

     

    But if a german would recognize, in Armley for example, an indisputably german organ, he would

    certainly not do with the very next step, that is, the "Schulze Diapason choruses" built in imitation

    by the british organ-builders. The thing was immediately integrated in the british manner.

     

    Because here it is: one might say " there are fewer interesting british repertoire than the continental ones", but, above all, there is a british way of "making music", regardless of the origin of the paper sheet the conductor uses.

     

    Take the Saint-Saëns mass of Donald Hunt I linked to yesterday on the "Youtube" thread.

    If we give the score a "table study", we must quickly recognize it is actually, from a musical

    point of view, a rather poor thing. It was composed at 18 years old by Saint-Saëns, as his fourth

    work; this is nothing else as a youth exercise, largely inspired by the Messe royale by Dumont of which

    one might say it is a "remake".

    And though, be sure nobody on the continent never heard this work like Mr Hunt made it sound -and actually,

    a vast majority of the continentals never even heard of it.

    So this interpretation is at least as british as it is french; it is a re-creation in a way that is unquestionnably

    british.

    But then in Wo'ster, at the time I went there on a somewhat regular basis, the people said they made french music.

    French??? Really ???

     

    So we have here a malentendu from the start.

     

    The same with the very limitations of the historic organs. The baroque british organ was despised because "you cannot play Bach with this music-box with no Pedals". Aside to the fact one cannot expect to play a "fully correct" Bach

    anywhere outside central Germany, for obvious reasons that exist with any other composer from any area and period,

    it was also forgetting the fact those limitations existed in a vast majority of the continental styles as well; in Flanders,

    the Netherlands and Germany, there were much little organs with no Pedals as well.

     

    Today the trend -the tradition?- of "look abroad what they do" continues, and this, while in that very "abroad"

    the interest for the british romantic organ is ever rising.

     

    What we on the continent learnt those last decades is the fact one cannot go further in the evolution if

    you cannot built on a complete historic basis; that is, you won't create a sound new organ design if you do not

    have examples of what preceeded you. Or you will ever re-invent the wheel.

    We need the complete film before writing the next chapter, and that means for the organ: we must be reconciliated

    with all organ styles from all periods, and restore examples of them.

     

    If you are still with me, this means, in (poor) english, this: In order to be able to create a really modern,

    sound british organ style, you first need a reconciliation with the complete historical set, Music-box-with-no-Pedals and Hope-Jones included.

     

    With my very best wishes !

     

    Pete (from New Scotland, fighting to keep his head on his shoulders in the local Highlands)

    Youtube

    in General discussion

    Posted

    The legendary recording of the "Messe à quatre voix" Opus 4 from Camille Saint-Saëns

    in Worcester, 1979, is now available on Youtube:

     

    http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=FuLu3CsdK0Q&...&feature=BF

     

    The Kyrie:

     

    http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=VZOD-qcMQAk&...&feature=BF

     

    The Sanctus:

     

    http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=P08bFAZN0_0&...&feature=BF

     

    O Salutaris:

     

    http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=oARhMfvIEnI&...&feature=BF

     

    Agnus Dei:

     

    http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=FuLu3CsdK0Q&...&feature=BF

     

    (Halas the MP3 does not justice to the splendid organ it was at that time).

     

    Pierre

    Harrison Harmonics

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    After having asked the original question on this topic some while ago, I had rather lost sight of it. Thanks for the information above - very interesting.

     

    Take one part away, and the whole falls apart. So true!

     

    I must confess that, quite a number of years ago (when this sort of thing was far less frowned upon, and I was younger and even more foolish than I am now), I was a member of a church group which became interested in a large 1930-ish Harrison after a casual enquiry from one of our number gave the impression that its owner might have been happy to sell the beast. (Whether this was in fact the case, I can't say for sure since, ultimately, the "plan" fizzled away as being impractical, before any offer was made.) But, ah!, the remodelling schemes we hatched... And of course, the first things to go would have been the Great Trombas and Harmonics, to be replaced by more sociable Trumpets.

     

    All I can say now is that we were very misguided ... and I am glad that (at least, when last I heard) the instrument was still in existence, with its original specification, if not in the best of condition.

     

    Rgds

    MJF

     

    This very idea is exactly what we began to think in Belgium since about 2000.

    Welcome to the 21st Century, an Epoch that will maybe be saved by the ability

    to doubt about ourselves.

     

    Pierre

    Mutation Madness

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    As no organ is perfect, be it "historical" or not, there will always be

    critics, whatever would be done.

    We already discussed that particular organ; there are several possible

    ways to go in that case without sacrifice of any historical "Substanz".

     

    Pierre

    Mutation Madness

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    Genau, Mr Kropf,

     

    That period is one of the richest, fast-moving in the history of the organ.

    The approximate period is: 1890-1930.

    From the dissepearing of the leaders of the 19th century to the spread

    of the Orgelbewegung worldwide.

     

    Cavaillé-Coll, Willis I, E-F Walcker etc were gone, their successors could innovate

    without having to fear them any more !

    And as E-M Skinner wrote, the modern organ actions had removed the limitations

    in organ design, enabling more creativity.

     

    This is what I call (with my teacher Jean-Pierre Felix) the "Post-romantic" organ.

     

    Those organs display a wide variety of experimental styles, from Hope-Jones to

    the first neo-baroque organs (1921!).

    Today, if we happen to encounter such an organ in original state, it convinces

    most of us...An Arthur Harrison, a late Sauer, an Oscar Walcker from before 1930,

    A Willis III, or indeed an E-M Skinner; nobody would still advise to get rid of such

    an organ. (save maybe some british patients ?)

     

    Halas, already during that period, some people had a dream: to invent new rules

    and enforce them in order to get their place in the History.

     

    And so one of the experimental, post-romantic styles won the game: the "Neo".

     

    With the incredible, but true, fact that 1960 Mixtures, for example, still had

    more in common with E-M Skinner's than with true baroque ones...

     

    The organ you are in charge of today sits right between those two periods,

    and, as such, has a strong historical significance.

     

    Pierre

    Youtube

    in General discussion

    Posted

    .....And not only in Germany. It seems Straube had another kind

    of organ in mind than the german one when he laid his registrations out,

    especially in the ppp, where he used systematically the swellbox

    while the german organ of the period provided splendid soft stops

    aplenty....

     

    Pierre

    Harrison Harmonics

    in Nuts and bolts

    Posted

    "the Trombas were packed away and they are still within the curtilage if the Cathedral "

    (Quote)

     

    It is to be hoped they are stocked properly. Because they will be wanted again

    in the years to come. If they are not sold to the continent in the meantime.

     

    Pierre

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