Peter Clark
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Posts posted by Peter Clark
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Sorry, Peter, I didn't make myself very clear. I agree that catholicism has seen some significant changes in modern times. What I actually had in mind, though, was the situation in the late Renaissance and Baroque eras. Conservatism at this time (most obviously evident, I suppose, in their resistance to prostestantism) might possibly be one reason why Italy and Spain clung to organ design not so very much at odds with the earlier instruments designed principally for use alongside the plainsong of the services, rather than following the more northen countries in developing instruments with a more distinctly solo or congregational role.
This is only a thought, though, and may still be rubbish. I haven't thought it through at all.
No Vox, it is not rubbish at all; I was assuming you were thinking of the modern era! Having said that, the organ I played most in Spain - in the English College in Valladolid - was a digital!!
P
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I would wonder rather whether it is not a case of these most catholic of countries remaining as conservative in matters of organ music as they have been in matters of theology (and liturgy?) Perhaps in the context of the old Latin rite they never saw the need to develop grandiose instruments in the way the Germanic countries did - or to keep them in trim. Partially guessing here, but prima facie it seems plausible.
Well actually Vox I don't think of either Spain or Italy being especially conservative in theology. I was a seminarian in Spain for 4 years in the 70s and can assure you that theologically many of the lecturers we had - nearly all of them Augustinians - were up there with Kung and Schillebeekx in the liberal stakes. Even in those days they were drawing certain conclusons about the ecstacy of St Teresa of Avila!
P
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His performance at Lady Di's funeral was moving, and that's what (church)music is about?
I have never thought that church music is about being "moving"; rather it should assist in reflecting on theological truths and personal devotion....and be if at all possible scripture/doctrine based, something I feel cannot be said for Candle in the Wind.
Peter
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The state of organs and of organ music in general is not the greatest in Europe to say the least.
Too true, Nigel. I lived and played in Spain for a number of years and the same situation obtains there, with some notable exceptions. I wonder if it might be a result of the fact that the indiginous music of the Latin countries in general is a lot "freer" than that of those countries more readily associated with otgan playing and composition eg Germany - though of course France has a noble tradition of organ playing, building and composition. It could also be that the Catholic countries of Spain and Italy are more festive and feast-friendly than the more severe religious outlook (almost Calvinistic at times) championed by the traditinally Lutheran countries....
Peter
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I've known a few eccentric and egocentric people in my time, but I think my "best" story concerns a clergyman who had been in the navy, and quite a hard-man in many respects.
He nevertheless had a certain dark-humour, and when, at a rather large church with a musical tradition, the unfortunate curate tripped over his cassock and muttered, "Bugger me," under his breath, the Vicar replied, "Not at the moment dear. I've got a migraine!"
Unfortunately, he had overlooked the fact that both he and the curate were wearing lapel radio-microphones, and this was heard loud and clear at the far west-end of the nave!
MM
There are quite a few "radio microphone" stories around. There is the one of the priest who got caught short as it were in the middle of Mass and nipped off to the loo but forgot to turn off his microphone ... I'll leave the rest to your imaginations. Another is of a bishop who muttered at the beginning of Mass "is this microphone working" to which the congregation responded "and also with you".
Peter
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This is interesting. I could have sworn that SSC said he had done it at Canterbury, but I am beginning to wonder whether I misremember. Or maybe his own memory was faulty - though I find that difficult to believe.
Talk of Campbell reminds me of a story I heard. It concerns the fact that SSC was not an especially religious or even believing man, and someone once asked him, when he was at Souithwark, "but what's the cathedral for?" to which he replied;,"to keep the organ dry."
Peter
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I hope this is not too off-topic but I think it is of sufficient interest to the many of us here who work in or for a church. You will have noticed that Elton John hired the Catrhedral of St John the Divibe for his 60th birthday bash. Now this is the same Elton John who recently called for religion to be abolished! So this propmpts some questions:
1) Why did he want his birthday celebrated in a building dedicated to the upholding of a major world religion?
2) Why, given his views on religion, did the cathedral authorities allow it?
3) Has any representation been made to the cathedral authorities by disgruntled persons?
Whatever next I wonder? The Rolling Stones at Canterbury with a guest appearence by David Flood on keyboards? (Groovy ivories, Dave!
)This cathedral, incidentally, is the one in which Philip Glass played Mad Rush when the Dali Lama visited (o my God is he still going on about Mad Rush I hear you cry!
) It may also be the one briefly featutred in the film 84 Charing Cross Road where the choir are singing For Unto Us a Child is Born.Peter
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Has this pedal solo piece been authenticated as by JSB? The copy I have suggests it is a fragment as it ends on a low d held for a few beats. Some of the figures used are reminiscent of passages in other works so I wonder if it might be some kind of "compilation" - or even possibly Bach could have written it as a test piece?
Cheers
Peter
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The change requiring the agreement of the PCC was made at the joint behest of Lionel Dakers and Robert Runcie. It had been brewing for years due to a number of clergy who had sacked organists in post immediately after their induction service. However, the matter was brought to a head with the dismissal of H.A.Bate from St James, Muswell Hill. It was this that led directly to the alteration in the law in 1986.
Barry Williams
That is very intereting, Barry. My ex-sister in law and her husband were - are? - members of the congregation at St James, and I had to endure a great deal of happy-clappiness whenever I went to stay with them. I don't ever remember the organ being used, though. I think it was a rather fine 3 manual but I can't remember who built it. Certainly whenever I went to St James there were a lot of guitars and drums and sincerity but little musical finesse.
I wonder if the vicar who I used to know there was the sacker of H.A.B.?
Peter
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Dear me chaps, it was only a joke. I am more than grateful for this forum as I beleive I have indicated in the past...
P
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Looks like we haven't put our clocks forward, Mr Mander! :angry:
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People may be interested to know that Philip Glass composed the music for the currently showing film "The Illusionist".
Peter
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The story about GTB and Thiman reminds me of Sir Henry Wood's acquaintance H.C Tonking. Wood had organ lessons with him and thought very highly
of him. Tonking was organist at Westminster Chapel,Buckingham Gate.However he was dismissed and before the first Sunday his successor was to play,he got into the organ and made certain alterations. He took Wood with him to the Sunday service and was delighted when the unfortunate organist selected soft stops for his prelude and was rewarded with 16ft and 8ft reeds plus 8 ranks of mixtures! Tonking thought it hilarious but Wood told him waht he thought of such a low trick and never saw him again.
There's a good GTB story about how during a service the presiding minister announced "the organ will now play". Silence, GTB remained in his seat. The minister repeated: "The organ will now play". GTB responded, "Then let it!"
Peter
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Which website Peter? Daniel Moult played this piece in a recital at my church last year, alongside the D major P & F BWV532 and Trio Sonata No.6. It's a curious little piece, which does exactly what it says on the tin. After starting in C major, it gets into some pretty far-flung keys and manages to find its way home to C major again. Peter Williams describes it as "ouverture, lost direction, entry into labyrinth, discovery of C major, "exit beneath the sun of clear harmony" (Keller).
Graham
Thanks Graham. The website? Go to Widor Gratuit on this discussion board and click on Widor to get into the website which is loads of public domain music free for download and printing.
Peter
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In the (very welcome!) Widor link posted by John Sayer, I had a shop around this website and camew accross this piece, possibly by Bach, possibly not. It is the first time I have seen it; has anybody get any more information on it?
Thanks
Peter
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Recently on this forum attention has been brought to the fact that some rock stars began life as classically taught musicians - Matthew Fisher of Procul Harum, Rick Wakeman, Keith Emerson being the ones that spring to mind. Now I discover that Peter Skellern, who had a hit in the 70s with "You're a Lady" is also classically trained and is a church organist. I wonder how many more are out there.....
Peter
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If anyone is thinking of buying or has bought the score (as I have) there are one or two misprints. At bar 99 the right hand part sgould be the same as in the previous bar, The LH Es in bars 170-1 should be tied.
But do look at this piece, it is excellent, nd I am thinking of getting more of his stuff when I have got this one under my belt.
Peter
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It's extraordinary how The Ketchup Song has become an accepted part of my musical diet after prologed exposure to it in the car: it's my 5 year old's favourite. The chromatic descent from the tonic through major and minor sevenths to added sixth (as in the underlying harmony to My Funny Valentine) is always a winner.
Speaking as someone whose career has spanned the traditional church organ scene and the rock/pop world, I do think that rockers like Rick Wakeman (and Jon Lord of Deep Purple) are inspirational musicians. Wakeman is developing arthritis in his fingers now, but his dexterity on the MiniMoog and the piano in the 70s was remarkable. Yes, the music of that prog era is pretty overblown, but the virtuosity could, on occasion, be a bit special. Can't say this Lincoln thing is my bag musically, but if it gets some new punters interested in the organ as a musical instrument rather than an ecclesiastical architectural edifice then it's surely served an admirable purpose.
Also Keith Emerson of Nice and ELP. I think they got into trouble with Leonard Berstein for a version they did of America from West Side Story. Emerson actually wrote a paino concerto (which was quite weak IMHO). But like Rick Wakeman Emerson certainly had an enviable keyboard technique.
Peter
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What does your church do? Do you have special anthems or music? Do you get your little ones to perform something?
It is also Latare Sunday,the 4th of Lent and this year it follows St Patrick's Day so we've a bit pf a problem. Usually I bend the rules a bit and stick in a Marian hymn (Many Immaculate to Bach's wonderful harmonisations) but as Mothering Sunday is not strictly a liturgical festival we tend to stick with the theme of the day. But there'll be a "big" voluntary - the middle section of the Fantasia in G - following the inevitable Hail Glorious St Patrick. (Well we did O Great St David a couple of weeks ago so fair's fair!)
What one might call a liturgical fresh fruit salad.
Peter
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Rick Wakeman used a pipe organ in Switzerland (I think) on his album Criminal Record. I had heard that he was an organist in a (Baptist?) church on the Isle of Man. So what the hell is doing on Countdown?
As to good/bad music and snobbery I happen to believe that the finest, tightest and most disciplined pop single to be relased in recent years is The Ketchup Song (Asereje) by Las Ketchup.
Peter
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Peripherally related - how about the Scandinavian Otto Olsson? I used to have a recording of Hans Fagius playing some of his music including the energetic Sonata in E.
Peter
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I was recently given a copy of Wolfgang Rubsam playing Bach on a Naxos issue - "The Great Organ Works" (catalogue 8.553859). I wonder if any others have heard it because I frankly found this a very ponderous set of performances, many of the movements much slower than I had heard before (the first section of the 552 fugue, the Pasacaglia 592 for example) and an almost constant use of 16' on manuals which made for a somewhat monotonous (no pun!) account. He seems to have a prestigious position in the States - have any other members heard this CD? If so, what is your opinion?
Best as ever
Peter
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When I ordered my copy of Glass's Mad Rush, I saw that there seems now to be a company called CheterNovello - have the two houses become as one? A website address of www.chesternovello.com is indicated but seems not to exist. Does anybody know what's happening?
Peter
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Personally, I would have put in a little more animation on the "prowling beasts" and would have left the tierce de picardy until the final verse.
But I trust you avoid it in Veni Veni Emmanuel?!
I wonder if anyone's ever been tempted to do a "reverse tierce" ie end a major key hymn with a minor chord - could cause quite a stir!
Peter
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) It may also be the one briefly featutred in the film 84 Charing Cross Road where the choir are singing For Unto Us a Child is Born.
Pastorale In F Bwv 590/mad Rush
in The Organ
Posted
Well known is the curious conclusion to the first section of the Pastorale - although clearly rooted in F major the piece finishes with an A minor cadence. Philip Glass's Mad Rush, similarly rooted in F, also ends on a chord of A minor. Coincidence?
Peter