Peter Clark
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Posts posted by Peter Clark
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2030848,00.html
An encouraging piece of writing (in the sense that it might get people thinking/talkng) or a lament for times past?
Peter
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Incidently, (and well away from this thread) has anyone ever used these books and found something of great worth in it?? (Excluding that Colin Mawby book of last verses of Hymns, which has some very useable stuff in it for the lazy)
I've got a couple of these books: I mentioned in another thread the piece I've started to use at weddings Tubas on Parade by John March from "Soloing the Stoips". I have another book called "Swing Gently" which has a delightful piece by June Nixon based on the spiritual Shall We Gather t the River. I don't think any claim is made that these are monumental revelatory and revolutionary pieces which are going to send music in a completely new direction; they are just short servicable pieces.
Peter
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I found another book: American Minimal Music by Wim Mertens which has a whole chapter devoted to Philip Glass. It also discusses Reich's Four Organs and has some extracts from the score.
Peter
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I'm sorry to jump back so soon, but I did say I was being serious, and I am.
Other than "art for art's sake," what possible motive is there for writing anything down in England to-day?
You wouldn't get it published, you wouldn't get it performed and no-one is going to throw a comfortable living at you as you grind away writing things.
That's exactly why I gave up music, because the only alternative is a life sentence doing classroom-teaching, and frankly, I would rather eat worms.
Without much support from the churches these days, virtually the last remaining lifeline has now almost vanished.
Please tell me if I am wrong.
MM
I do it because I love music and I love the people I write for. That's good enough for me.
P
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Now please don't laugh at this, because I'm actually being quite serious for a change!
I have lots of things which I have written but never actually got around to finishing....let me explain.
I discovered a simply wonderful and mysterious chord-progression quite by accident more than by design, and so taken with it was I; I wrote it down.
Then I was improvising one day (as you do), and I hit upon this great opening for a big Fantasy, to which I attached said mystical chord progression in a quiet section. The whole Fantasy, (such as it is), is rather Regeresque, with big chords and whole-tone scales, and as I now appreciate, there is more than a hint of the central european about it. Due to the fact that I am painfully....nay agonisingly slow to write music down, (a bit like Durfule on barbiturates), I completed four pages of this grand work before throwing it onto a heap of music; vowing to return to it "someday." It has great potential, but the composer has just not the slightest motivation at the moment.
Then I looked at that splendid concerto-style opeinng of the unfinished Bach "Fantasia in C major", and I thought I would try and complete it. This went wonderfully well, and is well up to the quality of the original.....for all of three pages!
Pressure of work forced the abandonment of this noble project, but then I discovered that someone else had done it anyway, and I lost a bit of motivation. I now discover that the other version is fairly awful, and someday, I vow to go back to completing it. The frustrating thing is, I worked out a fugal theme which, in stretto, can combine the original unfinished Fantasia theme.
I have a way with hymn-tunes, and I've written a few of those in my time; but then they went happy-clappy and my efforts wouold not be appreciated to-day.
Then I wrote chants and the same thing happened.
Inspired by the develish cleverness of Reginal Porter-Brown, I then wrote AND COMPLETED (Hurrah!), an arrangement of the 20's hit tune "Nola," which rather cutely I re-named "The Nola Sisters," which includes varioue snippets of "Put me among the girls," "Polly" and "Ain't she sweet".....at one point, the two tunes "Nola" and "Polly" run absolutely parallel.
So I played this on a theatre organ, and everyone said exactly the same as they said to Reginal Porter-Brown......"You're completely mad!"
That didn't encourage me to play it again in a hurry, so instead, I wrote a period pastiche entitled "Caprice," and dedicated to the late Ena Baga.
So it is, that my Op. 1 and ONLY one, is there for posterity.....BUT.....I can at least claim something a little special about this mighty contribution to the art of musical composition, because it was first performed in the company of our friend Frank Fowler and no lesser a person than Carlo Curley; the notes being pressed by the late Wiliam Davies.
Someday, I promise that I will finish that Fantasia, because after 20 years, I still gaze at it adoringly; knowing that it has real potential.
Now does anyone know a suitable motivational course which I might attend?
MM
PS: Who are you calling a Manderin?
Sometimes I wonder about MM - but mostly I enjoy his posts!
Peter
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Radio 3 (or 4) did a programme about this recently with Peter Williams and Christian Woolf - Williams said no, but Woolf came down on the side of Bach's authorship. There was a violinist on the programme who played snatches here and there by way of illustration but I do not know if he recorded it. Gillian Weir seemed unconcerned either way saying just that it was a "terrific piece of music". The programme was produced by a friend of mine who works at the BBC in Cardiff. It's probably too late for the "listen again" but a transcript may be available.
Peter
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I get the impression that many "Manderins" (!) on this forum have written music for church and so on, and thought it would be interesting to hear about it.
I'll kick off by saying that I've just finished a setting of the Reproaches for Good Friday (in Latin - polyphony alternating with plainsong-type music) and am working on a setting of the Adoremus te Christe for the same service. I often set the psalm to music usually with a 4 part response (announced first by cantor) and single voice verses though sometimes I do a 4 part verse setting.
I have also written a little bit of organ music including A Birthday Toccata which I wrote as a birthday gift for my partner Jane a few years ago and am now going to introduce it to a wider audience in a recital. I also have an Easter Fanfare which is quite bluesy. But let's hear what others have been up to...
Best as ever
Peter
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If you suffer from wrist ache, then no!!!......, there are lot of fast chordal "arpeggios" in contrary motion, never more than an octave in each hand, if you suffer from cramp you could leave out the repeats if it's a tracker organ!.... It really is not difficult, a few off beats and so on, typical of him, but I would honestly say do it, it is sight readable, and very effective. I'm sure you'll master it.
Oh, and I'm no Thomas Trotter either!
R
Well ..... I've just ordered it! I'll let you know how we get on together!
P
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In your opinion, R, is this piece (Mad Rush) learnable for a recital I am doing mid-April? I suppose I coiuld describe myself as a reasonably good organist though not professional. No Trotter, me! (But few are!)
Peter
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I have to qualify the above by admitting that the pieces by John Tavener that I have heard have more to sustain the interest. I actually like some of it.
Well I wouldn't describe Tavener as minimalist, actually.....
Peter
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I like the sound of Mad Rush! Who publishes it please?
I'm quite a fan of minimalist music (I once set Praise my Soul the King of Heaven in a sort of minimalist way), but I have always thought the minimalist composder par excellence to be Steve Riech - anybody know his "Four Organs"? OK the organs concerned are (of necessity) electronic - probably Hammonds when he composed it - but it still is a good piece.
As to minimalist music generally, there is a book by Robert Fink -
Repeating Ourselves: American Minimal Music as Cultural Practice
As far as I can tell minimalist music appears to be an almost purely American concern though I would be interested to hear of significant contributers to the genre from Europe of beyond.....
Peter
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I rather like "On Eagles Wings", it is popular with children and there are other nice songs if you are willing to trawl through all the crap there is about.
Agreed. It is tuneful but also challenging and soundly based on scripture. I don't know of many "happy clappy" pieces which start on the leading note - and it has a delicious moment when the melody note of G in the refrain temporarily clashes with the bass F#.
Peter
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Does anyone here know of music that would be good for paying after a baptism service? Im due to play one soon, and was told that a bach p+f wouldn't be ideal. Does anyone know what might be?
How about Flor Peeters' prelude on Winchester New (On Jordan's bank....)? ("Thirty Short Preludes" Peters 6195)
Peter
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Unfirtunately I don't have the score in front of me but I always suspected a misprint on page 4 of Harris's Behold the Tabernacle of God (RSCM); at the point where "with a season of festivity" starts there is a strange clump of a chord quite out of keeping with the harmonic language of the rest of the piece. It seems to be an odd mixture of Aflat major and Eflat major with, if I remeber, a Dflat somewhere thrown in. Any thoughts?
Peter
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If you are looking for a comprehensive hymnal, Laudate is pretty good, excellent value for money and the congregation copy has melody lines for many items. It has most of ther trad hymns and many of the best of the new but it does have some rubbish unfortunately - including, inevitably, I Watch the Sunrise and How Great Thou Art. But of the whole is a a good production.
Peter
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On Saturday 24 March at 10.00 a.m. the Plymouth and District Organists' Association is mounting a "Meet the Organ" morning at St Andrew's, Plymouth. The event hopes to stimulate some interest in learing the organ by giving any budding pianists a chance of learning a bit about what an organ is and how it works and giving them the opportunity to get their mitts on one and give it a whirl. All ages are welcome, but youngsters especially so. To this end the association has been doing a fair bit of canvassing, including sending leaflets/posters to all the schools in the area.
From what I hear the feedback so far has not been very encouraging, but I was positively dismayed to hear of the attitude of the Head of Music at one of Plymouth's most highly repected secondary schools. The gentleman concerned - a brass player - apparently simply binned the material, dismissing the organ as "an old man's instrument" and by implication not worth further consideration. This despite the fact that two of his pupils are already organ pupils - one of them a lad who, although he has not been learning long, has exceptional potential.
Does anyone else share my dismay about finding such a blinkered attitude in an institution supposedly dedicated to education?
It just shows how times have changed. When I was at school in the early 70s, the music master was not an orrganist but very encouraging to me as a pupil of his generally and as a fledgling organist; in conjunction with the person who was teaching me organ he first got me to play hymns at the morning assembly, then at the anual concert I was given a slot where I played some pretty simple stuff admittedly but it gave me a taste of public exposure. The we did St Nicholas and I was given the organ part. By the time I was 16 I had an appointment (faitry modest but a start nonetheless) and then I went to college where I played for many of the services. And all this because of a music master. But here's a point: he was a churchman, active as a singer in his local parish church (and I think as a conductor too). If many music teachers these days have no interest in the church then probably this is reflected in their attitude towards the organ which is still seen by 80% or more of the British public as intrinsically linked to the church.
Peter
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OK, here's a conversation we've all had far too often:
Future Bride: I won't be needing you at my wedding because my Auntie Mary is going to play the organ.
Self: Oh, does she play the organ? Where does she play?
FB: Well she plays the piano. Same thing isn't it?
S: About the same as driving a car is compared to piloting a 747. Well I suppose you'd better bring her along to see the organ.
Three weeks later....
Auntie Mary: Hello. Sally says I can pay the organ at her wedding.
Self: Well you had better come and see it then. Here we are.
Auntie Mary: What are those things? (pointing)
Self: We call them pedals.
Auntie Mary: Oh I don't think I'll need those....
Self: Well have a try anyway. (Auntie Mary sits at the console and I pull out a couple of Swell stops so Auntie Mary starts to play "Evergreen" on the Great)
Auntie Mary: Ooo. Is it broken? I can't here anything.(I direct Antrier Mary to the Great. She starts to play. )It's still not working properly. The sounds are all late.
Self: No, that's the time-lag. You are down here. The pipes are up there. It takes time for the sound to travel from there to you. Are you sure you'll be OK with this?
Auntie Mary: Oh I'll pick it up. Just give me half an hour.......
And all this before the vexed problem of the non-attendance fee. Come the big day, of course, family gatrher rouind her as she plays an increasingly slow Wedding March and proclaim her as the next Gilliam Weir.
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Forgot to mention that I once played for a wedding where the groom "sang" his bride down the aisle - some Spanish love song accompanying himself on guitar....yuchh!
Peter
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It is interesting to know what other people do musically (and otherwise) in a little more detail, if they are prepared to share it.
Good idea, Andrew.
Thursday evening cantors' practice 7.30 - 8.15 - I have a rota of 5 cantors - all women - who take it in turns to sing the paslm, gospel greeting and sometimes lead the Kyrie, Sanctus or what might be necessary depending on the setting. This is done from the sanctuary thoiugh the choir (and organ) are in ther west gallery. Every few weeks we have a "choir only" psalm where a 4-part setting is sung from the gallery. At each cantors' rehearsal there are two present - the cantor for the following Sunday and an "understudy" in case of sickness &c. Beer.
Friday evening full choir from 8.oo - 9.00 or later depending on time of year. Estra rehearsals at Holy Week/Easter and Christmas. Beer.
Sunday morning "run through" 10.15 - 10.40, then Mass at 11.00.
Sunday evenings Mass at the University chaplaincy (giving up soon Deo Gratias!).
Weddings and funerals as and when. Quite often called to otjher churches and places to play/accompany. For example this week I am at the RC cathedral tomorrow for an afternoon service (rite of election) and on Tuesday a rehearsal at Llantarnam Abbey for a BBC recording being done a week tomorrow.
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(My former assistant regularly plays the Thunderbirds theme tune at Pentecost which always goes down a storm).
Well I'm always looking for novelty pieces - is it his own arrangement or is a score available? (I presume you mean the TV series rather than the movie?)
Peter
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And, by the way, I still think I should be fully entitled either to lock up the organ and go home if the bride hasn't processed in within 5 minutes of the scheduled start time, or to require a hefty deposit (at least the equal again of the basic fee) to be made in advance to be paid to me in these circumstances.
Ah yes, late brides - there's another problem. My "record" is just over an hour late, but no apology forthcoming and certainly no financial compensation. The idea of a deposit is good in theory but I wonder how many happy couples (and indeed clergy) would agree to it? Incidentally there are stories of weddings being abandoned since the registrar could not hang about waiting for a late bride, being due at aniother wedding later that day.....
Ronald mentoned bad behaviour. Once on my way to the organ loft I saw a chap smoking in church! I asked him to go outside to puut his fag out and he tried to hand me the wretched thing so I could take it out for him!
Have youi noticed also how many people chew gum in church, or grin nervously at both weddings and funerals?
Best wishes
Peter
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I don't know if it is considered impolite to refer to one's own posts but a thought ooccured to me: might it be useful were we to share some of the more successgful, if out-of-the-ordinary, requests we have had for weddings? (And possibly some of the more bizzare too!)
I mentioned John Marsh's Tubas on Parade previously, but I have found that a noble bridal march can be The Earl of Salisbury's Pavane (Byrd) played at a suitabble stately pace.
I once played for a wedding where the bride and father were both Star Trek fans. So am I, and by sheer chance I had recently bought a piano score of the theme tunes to the TV series and films which she happened to see on the piano in the choir room. She ended up by coming into the theme from Deep Space 9 and going out to Voyager!
Peter
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Well folks it's that time of year again when the blushing brides and grooms line up to explain to the already overworked organist what music they want for their wedding. I've had two interviews so far.
I suppose most of us have had a request for Morning has Broken to be played at three in the aternoon, but curiously these first two of the year both requested Dear Lord and Father which with its second line in verse 1 and first line in the last verse renders it an interesting choice to say the least.
Quite often they ask for "the Ave Maria". Not wishing to play through the roughly 500 versions which must be in existence I plump for the Bach-Gounod, with Schubert coming in a good second followed by, alas, As I Kneel Before You.
Pleasently surprised therefore was I to get to play/accompany the Caccini last year.
Sometimes I get asked for I Watch the Sunrise and then I point out that it is really a funeral hymn. (On the rare occassions I get consulted about funeral music, if it is requested I point out that it is a wedding hymn.)
I have introduced in my church as an alternative recessional wedding march, a piece caled Tubas on Parade by John Marsh, published by Mayhew in Soloing the Stops. Easy to learn, it is effective and I think it works rather well.
I was once asked for the Titanic theme but I said that the association of your wedding day with a ship that sinks causing great loss of life was probably questionable.
Best wishes
Peter
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Do you know Jennifer Bate's recording of this composition? I wonder if she played it at Westminster Cathedral also with this incredibly slow tempos...
Hi
No but I recently got the Gillian Weir version. However I seem to remember reading somewhere that a video recording was made of her playing the Livre and I wonder if anyone else has any info on this?
Peter
Bach's Toccata In D Minor, Bwv 565
in The Organ
Posted
Well I think he probably did. How about, for example, the pedal in the early c minor fugue where the manuals are given over to repeated chords on alternate hands? Now this may get me into trouble, but I have always found the "big" In Dulci Jubilo to be a little disappointing, as if Bach was merely filling out a hymn tune with flashy bits between each line, which he probably was as that was quite common but this one never seemed to me to go anywhere.
And even if the pedal entry you describe as "pitiful" is pitiful, an opinion I doubt shared by many here, it is surely redeemed beyond measure by the wonderful manual eentry in 6ths, the E and G crashing wonderfully into the pedal F?
Peter