Peter Clark
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Posts posted by Peter Clark
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Jennifer Bate's British premiere of Messiaen's Livre du Saint Sacrement was a very special occassion. The setting - Westminster Cathedral - was perfect for this music, as the incense still hung in the air and the iconography and decor of the building added to the mystery of and theological propositions suggested by the music. As icing on the cake, Messsiaen himself was there. I think that of all the organ recitals I have been to, this one will always be for me that which will never be superceded.
Peter
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I get the impression from reading many messages here that the choice of hymns and maybe settings is down to the priest/minister/vicar or whoever is leading the worship. In my own case I have so far successfully resisited this on the grounds that the organist is most likely to know what works and what doesn't for any given liturgy and any organist worth her or his salt wil be almost intimately familiar with the demands of the liturgy in general. I've never attempted to tell a preacher what to preach about (though reckon I could make a better job of it than some I've heard!), so I would not welcome a preacher/minister laying down the musical content of a service. I'm all for discussion and collaboration of course but to each her or his own area of expertise.
Peter
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Did anyone catch the "Jazz Matins" on Radio 4 this morning? Despite my previous post about children yearning to learn "proper" curch music, I thought this broadcast was high on the "wow" register. Mind you, I love good jazz as much as anything.
Peter
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RC members and indeed anyone who cares for the future of music and the encouraging of children to sing in church should take a look at this week's edition of the Catholic Herald which has an excellent article concerning a husband and wife team which has ditched all the happy-clappy (crappy) stuff and actually got children as young as nine getting into such as Vittoria and plainsong! It reminds me of a story in Kenneth Long's History of English Church Music in which some children - not great churchgoers it seems - said that when they did go to church they wanted to hear real church music and not shallow sub-pop music. Hmmm.
Peter
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This is from Kathleen Thomerson's "Jean Langlais - A Bio-Bibliography":
"Representative of a facile technique, leaves much to be desired in real musical composition" (Harry W Gray, The American Organist Oct 1958, 388).
but....
Langlais' recital of February 19 included this newly composd work, "a delightful exploration of three distinct moods" (Basil Ramsey, The Musical Times April 1958, 218).
So it seems that the world was divided then over this piece.
Peter
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And "borrow" your music which eventually turns up in their church.... no, this really happened!
Peter
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Re St John the Divine: What possible use is there for a 32' on the manual, given that the pedal organ has a 64' and two 32's already?!
Peter
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If you haven't seen it elswhere , feast your eyes on this one....would have had our departed friend Steve glassy-eyed and panting.
Cheers
Barry
First, is the stop list available anywhere? (I bet there's at least one 64'!)
Also, I remember seeing a photo of an instrument similarly oversized on which the upper two or three manuals were built at an angle sloping towards the player so that his/her hands would have been more vertical than horizontal. American again, I think. Does anybody have an info regarding this?
Regards
Peter
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But I have to say that I consider the whole notion of the orchestral organ flawed. Not so long ago I attended a recital on our local 4+P foghorn, which is as octopodian and orchestral as they come. The programme contained several orchestral transcriptions, but, though the playing was perfectly competent, I merely found myself thinking how inferior the organ is to an orchestra. However well such pieces are played, the organ just cannot compete in terms of subtlety of colour and expression, so why flog a dead horse? There's plenty of real organ music out there.
Rant over.
What about the other way round ie organ works transcribed for orchestra? Stokowski is porobabaly the best-known example thanks to Walt Disney, but what do people think in general? Can the orchestra "compete" with the organ in a work conceived for that intrument? I
Peter
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My real ire, though, is reserved for politicians - don't get me started!
Regards to all.
John
And what about people who, on rainy days, leave their umbrellas up when they're walking through shopping centres and arcades which are completely coverered?
Don't get me started!
Peter
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Hi
The other issue, though, goes to the heart of the Christian faith - like it or not, Jesus DID come to this world to die for the sins of mankind. You may not be comfortable with the thought - but if God decided that's how the fall could be resolved, then who are we to argue? Without Good Friday and Easter, the church ceases to have any meaning.
I assume that if this is your view, you don't participate in performances of the Messiah, or the Bach Passions, etc.
Every Blessing
Tony
Tony we've had this before: I am surprised that one of your calling doesn't recognise the distinction between the active and permissive will of God....
And I was merely speculating as to the possible anti-Semitism of certain composers, not denouncing them!
Reger? Well it's a cracking piece!
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Or are you thinking perhaps of Seigesfeier, from Op. 145? This was a premature 'victory celebration', to herald the triumphant return of troops from the Great War.
Hi. No it is definately Dankpsalm - look at the notes in B&H or Barenrieter (I forget which); and I think that the Seigesfeier is just blatant; I refuse to have anything to do with it! Actually some of the other pieces in the collection are rather good - Weinachten, for example, and Pasion
Peter.
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http://www.sauerorgelbau.de/2264.pdf
Lawrence has an invitation to play here in the summer.
All hint's tips and advice greatfully received, as ever.
Barry
My only advice (since I don't know the organ) would be to ensure that Lawrence has a sound knowledge of strtaight flat pedal boards, since I am assuming this organ to be one with such. There are plenty around, but if you are near Cardiff come to my church if you wish. A fairly well-known organist - I shan't name names - found his feet on the wrong pedal a number of times especially in the upper part of the pedal board the first time he played it!
Peter
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I am planning a recital for April and was intending to include Reger's Dankpsalm but I read recently that it was composed as a kind of "war victory celebration" or something, giving thanks for the safe return of German soldiers in WW1. As a sworn anti-war sort of bloke, is there an ethical problem inherent in my performing pieces which might be said to in some way "glorify" war?
Then I turned my thoughts to other similar issues. Given that Luther was fiercely anti-Semitic, would it be correct to assume that some earlier Lutheran musicians - including JSB - might have at least partially inherited this trait from the founder of their church and that this might be reflected in their music and/or the texts they chose to set?
But you can take this even further I suppose by questioning the morality of singing on a fairly regular basis hymns and other music which fetes the excruciating cruel death of a young preacher about 2000 years ago. I'm thinking about eg the ghastly "and when I think that God his Son not sparing sent him to die..."
A penny for them, people
Peter
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No - simply that the Greek Orthodox community took over the use of the building from the Salisbury Diocese.
And this would explain the scarcity of Greek and Russian organ music I suppose.
Peter
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The organ at my old school had somebody's front door (I think it was painted green) as the "lid" of the bellows. I believe the action was truly mechanical in that it was pieces of Meccano which operated the stops. The thing was designed, I think, and built by an ancient biology teacher called "Oily" Wells.
Peter
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If you refer to the old Compton organ in St. Osmund's, Parkstone, the situation is not quite this clear-cut. The building is still used for Christian worship - by the Greek Orthodox Church. They still have (as far as I know) the organ tuned and maintained and the building is still heated regularly.
I played it around this time last year - all the reeds were in good tune and almost everything worked well. There was a reed on the Choir (a synthetic?) which was not working, otherwise it seems to be in no worse state than it was when I had previously heard it - about fifteen or so years earlier.
I am acquainted with the priest who runs the Orthodox community there, as well as a few of the congregants. They are doing what they can adequately to maintain a large building, including, as far as I can see, the organ. It is possible that they would, in any case, regard favourably any offer to purchase the instrument, should this be forthcoming from an appropriate party.
That is interesting; there is a Greek Orthodox church here in Cardiff and as far as I know there is no organ in this nor indeed in about 98% of Gk Orthodox churches; Orthodox liturgies are usually unacompanied chanting by the priests and choir. Does this mean that some Orthodox liturgical customs are becoming "westernised"?
Peter
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Oh, my goodness. Where do I start?
"Come and behold him, [bREATH] Born the king of angels" instead of "Come and behold him Born, [breath] the king of angels". This is also totally unreasonable considering that the punctuation in the hymn books is exactly what people sing. However the original Latin, "Natum videte regem angelorum", translates as "Behold the King of Angels who is born", so it grates.
Oh yes: and that unwritten passing note in the same carol.
Unfortunately, Vox, some hymnals do print that passing note!
Other gripes: The elongated "O" in "We Three Kings" (probably the most historically inaccurate carol ever written; I was told off by a chorister for not including it for Epiphany but I just said that I didn't like it).
As to screaming babies, we had not one but three yesterday, just as we started the communion anthem "Ave Verum" (Elgar). I have now started to petition the Vatican to ensure the immediate and surely long overdue canonisation of King Herod.
Salve, omnes
Peter
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In O Little Town of Bethlehem, verse 3, congregations invariably sing: "where meek souls will receive him still, the dear Christ enters in" whereas the comma should be between "him" and "still". Oh and there's an extremely naff extra verse printed in sme RC hymn books. "Where chldren pure and happy pray to the blessed Child"....
Regards
Peter
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I haven't heard all of the CDs but I recently got her recording of Livre de Sanit Sacrament- in fact she signed it for me as she was giving a recital at my church - and it is tremendous! There are a number of other works on this 2-disc set, burt she seemed a little embarrassed at having to include the "Monodie" in the recording. She told me that she was almost apologetic when she did a series of recitals covering the complete works a few years back and included it; does anybody here actually play it ? I've got the score (£9.00 for two pages - and that was about 7 years ago!) but have never brought it out in public.
Best wishes as ever
Peter
I haven't heard all of the CDs but I recently got her recording of Livre de Sanit Sacrament- in fact she signed it for me as she was giving a recital at my church - and it is tremendous! There are a number of other works on this 2-disc set, burt she seemed a little embarrassed at having to include the "Monodie" in the recording. She told me that she was almost apologetic when she did a series of recitals covering the complete works a few years back and included it; does anybody here actually play it ? I've got the score (£9.00 for two pages - and that was about 7 years ago!) but have never brought it out in public.
Best wishes as ever
Peter
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Hi
In the Heinrichsen edition the only consecutive octaves in that bar are in the LH - and as there are several places that are similar, I doubt if its a slip of the pen - more likely intended to give the depth that a GG compass manual is capable off without using pedals. The large jumps and consecutive ocatves in the bass surely point to a non-legato performance - which to my ears seems to work pretty well.
Having seen the earlier correspondence, I played the Choral Song section yesterday morning as our closing voluntary. Full organ for the forte passages, reducing (on the combination action) to 8fts for the quieter bits, and taking the 8ft Open off for piano sections, leaving just the rather lovely Stopped Diapason Treble that Willis made from an old Keraulophon rank in the just completed restoration. (Organ is a 5 stop GG compass chamber organ of c.1820 St Diap Bass, Open Diap, Stopped Diap Treble, Dulciana, Principal 15th - last 2 can be drawn & cancelled by a pair of combination pedals).
Every Blessing
Tony
Ooops! I meant to say "consecutive fifths", not octaves! Does that make more sense?
Kind regards
Peter
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Apropos this piece, though not this edition, I have found that the cosecutive octaves in bar 5 and so on can be dealt with by substituting a B flat in the pedal for the G at the fourth crotchet. This does not disturb the flow of the music at all, and satisfiesthe legalists! I don't suppose I am alone in wondering if that was a slip of Wesley's pen?
Best wishes
Peter
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Am I correct in thinking that this is a tracker action Mander? As I recall it is a one manual (8,8,4,4,2?) with a permanent couple to the pedals. I played it a year or so ago, and it is certainly worth looking at if you in the area.
Peter
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I am a Catholic, too, and find that there is an element of licence regarding music at Lent and Advent. When I sang in the choir at St. Marie's Cathedral, Sheffield, the voluntary would be restricted to some modest Bach. I now attend a Benedictine priory where there is a strict observance of earlier directives and no voluntary is played. I rather feel that the Mass is left somewhat flat with the absence of concluding music.
Barry, which Benedictine priory do you attend? I askmsince I was very involved at one stage with Belmont Abbet where the late and great Alan Rees - a good friend incidentally - was onetime Abbot and also O & C till his untimely death (BTW have you heard the new CD of his music?). Alan wasa quite strict about organ music during the penetential seasons but I belleve he was more relaxed than the priory you are attending. Is it perchance Farnbrough?
Best wishes
Peter
Introducing Unknown Hymns
in General discussion
Posted
Unfortunately there are no, or at least very few, evening services in my church and so a lot of really good and well established hymns simply never get used. Three spring to mind:
The Day Thou Gavest (though this does crop up for funerals)
Hail Gladdening Light
Abide with Me (funerals ditto)
Hmm... thought.... this also means I miss out on "I Watch the Sunrise"....
Peter