Jonathan Thorne
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Posts posted by Jonathan Thorne
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Yes.
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I'm interested that Ban van Oosten has made a recording at Salisbury. I wonder though what it would have sounded like if he had recorded it on a Cavaillé-Coll instead. After all British and American organists are always playing French music on their instruments for example.
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On a recent trip to Germany, my hosts gave me a couple of tubes of "Gundel-Putz" which is what they use to polish their prestant pipes.
My organ uses the 4 & 2ft. Principal's as display pipes also, I believe they are 70% tin. Over the years they have gone a little dull and it would be nice to restore their sheen - but only if safe to do so. Is there a safe way of going about this (I would say leave the mouth area completely alone) or is the risk simply too great. Nothing wrong with them musically.
Gundel-Plutz reminds me of a similar metal polish we used on a restoration of a Gern organ that had a tin facade. We used Peek (£6 a tube) and a small amount went a long way. We also found it less abrasive than Brasso. It worked a treat and no it didn't have any effect whatsoever on the tone of the pipes. After all it's only the oxide that causes the dullness.
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I remember first meeting Chris at St. Mary's, Thornbury, where I was also baptised. Daniels had rebuilt the organ there. I last remember seeing him whilst he was visiting his son at the Birmingham Conservatiore when I was also a student there. I took him to see and play the Ken Tickell practice organs there and he seemed to enjoy them. It's very sad to learn of his passing. J
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Try Taylor's of Loughborough.
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I cannot believe that the ROYAL Academy of Music is considering purchasing a new organ from abroad.
Are you telling me that there is not one English organ builder who could not have provided a suitable instrument for the Academy ?
I think it is disgraceful that we cannot support our own manufacturing industry, and I hope that at least the English companies were asked to quote for the new instrument.
The same thing has happened with the car industry which is now controlled from abroad.
Is anyone else indignant about the RAM policy of not supporting the UK companies ?
Colin Richell.
Hi Colin. I somewhat agree with you. It's a shame our country isn't producing goods anymore (apart from Renishaw plc), but I've come acros a lot of potential customers who have been annoyed by the arrogance of some of the uk builders. After all there have been at least three uk builders who have won contracts overseas in the past year or so. I'm sure uk builders had an opportunity to tender, but organists in the uk aren't stupid and if they decide to go abroad then organ builders in the uk might like to spend their efforts into finding out what thy can do to improve their output, rather than moaning about it and achieving nothing. . There have been some great outcomes in recent installations recently from worldwide organ builders installed in the uk that in fact we as a nation ought to wake up to and support.
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This is good news. I wonder who has been appointed to carry out the work and when it will start.
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Hi everyone,
I've been pondering about the topic of stopper lubrication and was wondering what peoples opinions were about using Tallow (rendered lambs fat) or Talcum powder.
I can see advantages to both options; e.g. with Tallow you can effectively 'set and forget' and it does provide some seal in the gaps that can occur between the leather and the pipe.
Would be interested to hear other contributors views on this.
JA
I know of an organbuilder to use tallow when greasing stoppers and screws and Talcum Powder for leatherwork before using an iron.
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Having known Ken Tickells work for some time now I think it's great that he has been chosen to build this new organ, at a time when new builds in this country have been few and far between.
Contrary to earlier posts on this topic I think the specification looks excellent and I have no doubt it was a collaboration between the customer and organbuilder.
With this in mind I feel we ought to encourage this sort of enterprise and support our UK builders rather than coming up with hyperthetcial and sometimes unfounded ideas of what we have no business to influence.
:-)
JT
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There is quite a lot of information on the Cathedral's website.
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"I should have thought that several good builders could construct a fair copy from new, for the higher of these two figures" -are we talking UK builders?
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Try Presto Classical. They certainly have some Motette CDs in their catalogue.
I too have been trying to get Motette CD's. I also saw that presto classical had them advertised on their website. However I still have a cd from Presto Classic on order from a month ago so I'm now looking for alternatives. I might cancel and go on the American site http://www.organsociety.org/ as they stock Motette CD's and could prove more reliable.
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I have a direct contact with BOB of Derby if it's of any use?
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I would appreciate opinions about tuning celeste stops.
I prefer them sharp. Do most builders tune them this way? (When the Walker at St. Leonard-at-the-Hythe, Colchester was restored by ex-Walker man Ken Canter, he tuned the celeste flat because he said that Walkers' did it that way. I didn't like it and persuaded him to tune it sharp, as it had been before - a particularly nice one, I always thought).
It seems to me that one should tune celestes according to the beat with their companion stops, rather than in octaves, otherwise the trebles will beat too fast. Am I right?
Would a more stringy stop, say a Viole d'Orchestre, benefit from a slightly quicker beat, or vice versa?
I feel that about 3 beats per second is about right for an ordinary Vox Angelica type of stop.
My organ here has a sharp Voix Celeste (down to G8) in the Swell and a flat Viole Celeste (full compass, including extras for the octave coupler) in the Solo. I wonder if it would be worth sharpening the Solo celeste.
In 1971, I went with John Budgen to hold notes while he tuned the newly-rebuilt organ at Burnham-on-Crouch Church, Essex, in preparation for the opening recital by Gordon Phillips the same evening. When we got there, the parish organist asked John to tune the celeste flat. After getting half-way, it became apparent that the pipes wouldn't take it. A few words were said, and the stop retuned sharp. After the concert, the organist remarked how much better the celeste sounded now it was flat....
I've always known Celestes to be sharp and Angelicas to be flat, but what's in a name? It really does vary from organ to organ. Some have them flat and some sharp. Some slow some fast. It also depends where the two ranks have been planted on the soundbaoard. If they have been planted next to each other then the beats will be less successful if you hear any beats at all, because they will want to pull each other into tune. It's far better to plant them 2-3 stops apart from each other which will give you a better beat.
With regard to flat or sharp, I think it is a combination between organ builder and the organist. I've not known J W Walkers just to tune their strings flat, if anything they tend to tune sharp, particularly with their newer instruments. I tune the strings at St. Chad's Cathedral, Birmingham sharp. I do think that the organist has a right of preference if the pipes will take to be flattened or sharpened.
With regard to speed again I think it's up to the organist if he or she wants would like them fast or slow or progressively getter faster the further up the compass one plays. I've always known Cavaillé-Coll strings to be fast and accelerating further up the compass ones goes but in all I think it's down to preference and taste.
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Thought MM would have known,organ builders only deal in sharps not flats.
c c# d d# ef f# g g# a a# b.
Yes and no. I'm an organ tuner and organist. It's not rocket science.
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I bought this piece ages ago and have had a couple of play-throughs but have never given it a public outing. Its well within my grasp - its not that difficult and I'd have thought it should be well-received by the congregation. The bit that puts off is the ending. I have the Novello edition (I think - would have to check in church) which is a reprint and some small notes have been added to the end (the large notes end on a pretty feeble pp) but I've never made much sense of it.
Is there a recognised way to give this piece a satisfying ending?
Have a look at http://www.mdg.de/titel/0975.htm.
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One characteristic that I don't think I have read about here is the fact that when I was a lad, organists (when demonstrating the wonders of their instruments before letting me have a go) would revel in the way it was possible to illicit seamless crescendos and diminuendos when adding stops or decreasing them from their cathedral organ. With careful use of swell pedal controls (a little like changing gears on a car with the clutch to enjoy perfect and unnoticeable changes), this demonstrated to me as a youngster how the British organ was controlled. My Cathedral organist taught me how to play the 2nd Movt of Mendelssohn Sonata II using two expression pedals at the same time (Solo & Swell) and my brother taught me how to drive using brake and accelerator with one foot (heel and toe!) to achieve similar results for decreasing speed whilst using the left foot for the clutch. Early racing car methods! Therefore Mendelssohn was a good introduction for driving a Jaguar and Aston Martin later on in life.
The trick on the organ to create seamless stop changes was to shut the box at the same time a stop was added so that its presence did not create a 'bump' in the line of music. Then the crescendo was heightened when the swell was opened. Swell reeds always seemed to have been added in this way too - not just Great stops. Rarely did things come on 'straight'. This form of playing which was of course rooted in accompaniment, was just the correct technique that was used for Howells' solo music. Much of it (because of the style of playing used for it as well) makes me think that I am missing the choir part when I hear some works. Perhaps this set crescendo found on German instruments of the 19th century allowed players to live by the Rollschweller and a few pre-prepared combinations. The former never seems to have caught on in these shores.
The British style of Improvisation is mostly created using these styles of playing. The bane of my musical life when attending some churches is hearing pre-service music where the right foot being is fixed and occupied with the expression boxes, leaving the left foot alone, which thus moves legato with endless passing notes and little or no breathing. This then demands that pistons come into action. Are there any organs where the organist has not set them to go pp through to ff - Nos 1 to 8 (or so)? I always set No 5 to give me a Cornet (if on the department). No 1 the loudest solo sound etc. The last one I normally set as a general cancel for the department. I know you think that mad, but I look upon pistons as giving me specific sounds related to a department from which I can build or decrease with hands if necessary.
The British organs frequently seem to ooze subtleness for this style of seamless playing. The suddenness, excitement and power of using Ventils seems most alien to these shores. Therefore, the British organ for me was borne out of being the accompanimental instrument and subservient to the Choir. The instruments therefore rarely fall into the bracket of being contrapuntal with pedal divisions hidden behind the main instrument or even stashed into other places away from the main instrument. Therefore, in conclusion, the evolution of design and building has happened out of some form of necessity and character and not really rooted in indigenous solo composition. Now choirs and liturgy have fundamentally changed in the ordinary place, this leaves the opportunity of having new contrapuntal-style instruments. But looking (on paper) at two brand new cathedral organs for these shores, I see very few differences between now and 80 years ago. It's as if there are blue-prints produced by Henry, Henry and Arthur and we digress away from them at our peril.
Best wishes,
Nigel
Nigel I fully agree. I'd like people to name a couple of really successful musical instruments that have been built in the UK in the past 30 years. I can only think of 2 and I look after one of them!
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Viernes music contained many misprints both concerning the notes and tempi. There is a good book by Rollin Smith about Vierne that gives some background into Viernes blindness wich was to blame (if you like) these misprints. It might also be rather worth it if one was to cross-check with the new David Sanger edition, where he talks this topic.
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Would anyone know what type of organs are to be found in Norway? Are they mostly likely to be found in cites or can one find them in smaller villages and towns like in the UK? Also do they tend to be more of a neo-baroque nature or a mixture?
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I too must add my disgust that the BBC cut short the organ voluntary, which the organist must have spent hours rehearsing. How muppetorial can the BBC get. Complete muppetry!!
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Not sure if this is allowed but I have some used Ancient and Modern Revised Hymn books to GIVE away or take to the tip. Some SATB some Melody only. PM if interested and near Northampton/Kettering. Does anybody still use these books?
Are they the latest version? I get confused with how many edition of A&M there are. Only on Saturday I found the edition (underneath the Bourdon chest of my 1898 J W Walker organ) I wanted which contained the Hymn tune 'Freshwater', which no other hymn book has, maybe. So having scrapped A&M what does Tromba propose to get instead?-Hymns old and New? Actually Common Praise is a good one - there are some nice tunes in that like Coe Fen etc.
All best
JT
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Many thanks for the info John and I hope all will be a success including the Walker which is of interest, as I play a Walker from 1898 here in Birmingham that still retains its original charge pneumatic action and pepper-pot reeds.
All best
J
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Any idea what is going on at Manders anyone? The portfolio and news is seriously out of date and lacking in care. Is this an image to portray for once a very good firm? Maybe this is why costumers are going abroad for work?? Please Manders sort it out - we do care.
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I notice that there has been no mention of the upcoming "The Organists Entertain at Liverpool Cathedral" which is to take place this Saturday 26th June 2010 19:30 - 21:30
On this very special night, in aid of the Cathedral Organ Appeal, five celebrated organists including Nigel Ogden, Professor Ian Tracey, Daniel Bishop, Ian Wells & Martyn Noble will be playing on six different instruments
This gala concert will be performed in the magnificent setting of the Cathedral, using six different instruments including the Cathedral Grand organ, three Makin digital instruments and two small pipe organs from David Wells.
This is a night not to be missed for variety, virtuosity, decibels and sheer entertainment and is held in aid of the Cathedral Organ Appeal.
Admission is £10 per person on the door
Further information from Daniel Bishop (Associate Organist, Liverpool Cathedral) at daniel.bishop@liverpoolcathedral.org.uk
Sounds like fun??
QB
Do you mean that there has been no mention on this forum about or nothing at all? It's on the Cathedral Website which is where I first heard about it apart from Facebook. It's sure to be a great gig.
JT
Trying to find publisher for Henri Victor Tournaillon
in The Organ
Posted
Hi all,
I'm wondering if anyone will be able to help me find the publisher for Henri Victor Tournaillon's Introduction and March in D major. It features on the recent Cavaillé-Coll DVD and it sounds like a good piece to learn! Any help would be most appreciated.
Thanks
J