nfortin
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Posts posted by nfortin
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After the specified starting time, I play five minutes of prepared music, followed by a further five minutes of improvising/sightreading Kevin Mayhew lift music. Then it's blower off 'till the light flashes.
Its not the extra playing I object to, its the extra time. I may well have a concert rehearsal to get to, or perhaps another wedding booked and yet the bride seems to assume that - like her - I've nothing else to do all day.
Alastair - you didn't make it clear whether you did the extra 45 minutes out of a sense of duty to keep everyone entertained, or to avoid getting wet. I'd certainly have no compunction about switching off at the end of the recessional.
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I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets really annoyed when brides turn up late at weddings. As far as I'm concerned if the service is booked for 1pm, for example, then the processional should start at 1pm. So many brides seem to assume that being 10 minutes late is perfectly OK, and that 15 minutes is quite reasonable.
To me such behaviour is completely selfish and very rude. I feel, once we reach the 10 minute mark, that I should be entitled to lock up, go home and keep the fee on the basis of a "no show - and not my fault". Failing that, I'd like to insist upon a very hefty deposit which will be refunded if, and only if, the signal light on the console flashes within 5 minutes of the appointed start time.
What is other peoples' experience, does anyone have a successful strategy, possibly contractual, to counter this problem?
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As Roffensis has been so bold as to nail his colours to the mast, I must say, that whilst it would be an exageration to call it the worst organ in the world, I thought Sherborne Abbey was pretty foul when I accompanied the RSCM cathedral singers there last November. Trying to play Howells Coll. Reg sympathetically on this awful box of f*rts was no joke.
Good luck Worcester!
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A couple more obvious examples:-
Sherborne Abbey - the new Nave section is on the west wall, the rest of the organ is in the north transept.
The organ being dismantled in the place we don't mention - the so-called solo organ was really a nave great and a reasonable distance from the rest of the organ in the quire. (The best place to sit for recitals being under the tower.)
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On the flip side of the success at Cheltenham, if you want to hear a few truly awful, fairly modern, digital Wyvern installations, I know a few good places.
Well thats fair enough, but pipe organ builders don't always get it right either. Does anyone think the West End organ in St. Mary's Warwick is anything better than horrible? Many of the organs in small churches here in the South West suggest that the only good thing to come out of Taunton is cider.
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In which case, we might just as well all sell our homes, cars and other trappings of Western society and donate all the money to the poor and starving.
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Personally, if the old organ really was beyond redemption, I would have actively investigated the possibility of salvaging a worthy redundant organ.
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One further point. Whilst I have played on several pipe organs with awkward or nasty consoles, it seems to me that electronic substitutes (even quite expesive examples) have uniformly 'plastic' consoles - often encased in cheap veneer.
Well I've certainly provoked some reaction with my comments re. poverty. I'm not saying its morally wrong for anyone to invest in a new pipe organ, but I do think there will be many PCC's up and down the country that would take this view. Its probably easier to convince a PCC to restore an existing instrument, using the argument that we're custodians and have a duty to hand things on in good condition, than it would be to convince them to spend half a million on a new one.
In the case of my church, as I've mentioned elsewhere, the building dates from the 13th century and was not designed to house an organ. Even if we had limitless funds its hard to see where a pipe organ could successfully be positioned, this problem applies equally to a rehoused redundant organ. This was largely why the 3M Hill was removed in 1966 - it was buried in a transept (the only place it could possibly be), swamped the choir but gave little support to the congregation in the nave. Had I been the Director of Music in 1966 I'm sure I would have fought tooth & nail to retain the pipe organ whatever its perceived shortcomings.
Toaster consoles can be rather plastic, the Allen consoles are unsatisfactory in many ways - really not suited to british tastes. However in the custom-build end of the market most builders use industry-standard components - such as Kimber-Allen drawstops for example, and this criticism would be unfair. Copeman-Hart rightly take great pride in their drawstop consoles which are more solidly built and more comfortable to play than a great many pipe-organ consoles.
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Sorry, but just to add..
I'm a passionate supporter of the pipe organ. Regular readers will know how outspoken I've been on the subject of Worcester Cathedral organ for example. But I don't think it does the cause of the pipe organ, or pipe organ builders, any good to bury one's head in the sand and to ignore the very real challenge presented by the digital alternative.
My present church took the decision to sell off a 3-M Hill organ (now altered by Percy Daniel's with their customary taste in the chapel of Dean Close School) back in 1965. This was replaced by a 3-M compton electronic instrument subsequently upgraded by Makin around 20 years later. As this instrument approached the end of its working life we were presented with a three way choice between:-
- a new, custom build digital instrument in the price backet £25K - £60k
- a new pipe organ in the price bracket £400K+
- a "second user" organ from a redundant church
I'm not an overly religious person, but I couldn't begin to justify the cost of a new pipe organ for our local church when put in the context of global poverty and starvation.
If there is the odd parish/cathedral/foundation willing to support the notion of throwing millions of pounds on an organ in the name of "art" then we organists must count ourselves fortunate to have our private passion so indulged. But it would be a foolish organist that would expect this to be the norm in the years to come.
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HOwever, I really want to start thumping them when they try to make out that their electronic simulation - sorry, pipeless - organs are in the same league as musical instruments as the real McCoy. Get real, guys and show some respect for the things you're trying to imitate.
I'm sorry but I think there's an awful lot of ill-informed predjudice being voiced in this discussion and this is a prime examle.
I've had the good fortune to play and hear most of the significant organs in my town, Cheltenham, which include two 4-manual instruments and a 3-M Rushworth & D. in the Town Hall which I'm very fond of, with the exception of the 3-manual H&H in the college chapel which I haven't experienced. I've also recent experience of having played the 'real' organs in the cathedrals of Hereford, Worcester, Gloucester, Birmingham, Exeter, Wells, the abbeys of Bath, Tewkesbury and Romsey, major churches including St. Mary Redcliffe and St. Mary's Warwick.
All opinions are of course subjective, but I must re-iterate that to my ears our new Wyvern Phoenix organ at St. Mary's Charlton Kings is easily the best recital instrument in Cheltenham. The flutes are unsurpassed in the town. The reeds are commanding. Few of the cathedral and abbey organs I've listed above could match the flutes on this instrument.
When you talk about the real McCoy this is just meaningless. If the real McCoy is an ailing two-manual squeze box with no ranks above 4' pitch even an Allen would be better (and that's saying something).
Experience the best of the latest digital before you pass judgement, and dont assume that thats the most expensive!
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Well, I have my new Wyvern 'toaster', and yes, the pedals are rather narrow.
I'm bemused by this talk of narrow pedal boards on Wyverns. During the investigation of manufacturers for our new organ I tried the Wyverns in Hook Parish Church and Chobham Parish Church, and we also visited the showrooms. At no time did I encounter anything non-standard in the pedal board department. As I've said already, our Wyvern, installed in February, is very comfortable to play. I played the Bach D major this morning - not a piece I ever attempt on "dodgy" pedal boards!
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I am impressed with Wyvern specifications. Their web site lays some emphasis on the essentially British characteristics or their organs and, in my view, the example at St. Mary's, Charlton Kings looks a near perfect example.
As I've said before, we're absolutely delighted with our Wyvern, the sound quality is fabulous (and the price very reasonable - we paid around 30K including installation & VAT). Several times I've had people come up to me when I'm practicing to ask where the pipes are - even though they're staring at the clearly visible battery of loudspeakers!
As you're based in Surrey, give Paul Wren a call at Wyvern and ask to try the organ in Chobham parish church. Its a smaller and gentler 3-manual than ours but gives a good impression of what's on offer.
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My church, in Cheltenham, had a brand new, custom built Wyvern organ installed in February this year, and a very fine instrument it is too.
The pedal board certainly feels "standard", its very comfortable to play, and has C-G compass.
A photo of the console, and the spec. can be found on my choir website www.stmarysmusic.org.uk/. Very happy to welcome visitors who'd like to try it out.
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Its difficult to use the swell oboe as a soft solo reed during choral accomaniment at Gloucester because its within the only enclosed division. If you wanted to use it for the french horn motif at the end of The Spirit of the Lord, for example, you'd want to accompany it on enclosed strings - just not possible.
Re. the harp, I did say its not wise to try to replicate every orchestral colour, although it would be quite fun at Hereford to find an appropriate use for the glockenspiel.
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Forgive me, Neil, but I cannot resist playing Devil's Advocate - have you ever accompanied this piece at Gloucester and, if you did, what solo reed did you use?
I've played the organ part in at least one full orchestral performance iof Apostles in Gloucester Cathedral and have also conducted a full performance in Gloucester Cathedral, but I can't honestly remember whether I've ever played for a separate choir and only rendition of "The Spirit of The Lord" there. If I had, I'd almost certainly have solo-ed the relevant passages out on great 8' & 4' principals in the absence of a usable solo reed.
Many years ago, when still a school boy, I accompanied "The Spirit of the Lord" on the (pre Kenneth Jones) Milton organ in Tewkesbury Abbey - so from the old 5-manual console on the north side. During the rehearsal I played the opening bars, until the first choir entry, on the Apse Echo, it was a spellbindingly lovely and etherial sound, but I turned to my page turner and commented that I'd have to change it because it was far to quiet. However, at the first opportunity the choir director shouted up that the opening combination was just perfect - so it stayed.
The Spirit of the Lord also benefits from softer solo voices in one or two places, such as the very last few notes, when the final motif (from memory) is scored for french horn. This works quite well on a gentle 8' diapason or gemshorn.
I've done a huge amount of organ-only accomaniments of choral works, and in my opinion it is not always correct or appropriate to try to match all of the orchestral solo voices. However a good understanding of what the correct orchestration sounds like, so easily obtained by listening to recordings, reveals sounds and voices in the texture of the accompaniment that often just cant be seen from reading the printed accompaniment in the vocal score. It makes for a much better organ accompaniment if you try to bring out the solo orchestral voices wherever possible even if using pure organ tones. One must never forget that you are still playing an organ, and need to make it sound effective, rather than getting carried away with the idea of trying to sound like an orchestra.
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Surely Stanford's "The Lord is my shepherd" is still staple cathedral repertoire?
Possibly so, I was thinking more about what I perceive a declining standards in the parish churches
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Whatever happened to 'Hymn Anthems'? Bairstow composed a fair number.
Its many years since I heard Bairstow's "The king of love", and I would suggest there are a good few Harris hymn anthems that have also largely fallen by the wayside. (How many people still do "All creatures of our God and King" or "O what their joy and their glory must be"?) Stanfords setting of "The Lord is my Shepherd" is also very colourful but probably little performed, "Purest and Highest" is to my mind a gem - but very little known.
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With "The spirit of the Lord" it definitely helps to have an awareness of the orchestration. There are two passages which call out for the use of a solo reed, not marked in the vocal score.
This piece is not unique in this respect. I've done a lot of choral society "organ only" accompaniment over the years (including full performances of Apostles, Kingdom and Gerontius) and in romantic works its near essential to have some idea of what colours are called for by the composer. I think the same holds true for earlier styles too - its very useful when playing St. Matthew Passion, for example, to know which arias have a solo flute as the obligato instument...etc.
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I too have a generalised pattern in mind which I tend to adapt on my perambulations. In fact I have two patterns, one for organs with 6 pistons per division, and one for organs with 8.
I do also, as a matter of course, look to see what settings the resident organists are using as it seems reasonable to assume they know their instrument and know what works. It isn't necessarily wise to be to rigid in ones settings without even having tried the instrument.
On a 8-piston per division instrument I like to have a 4' flute on swell 3. At Hereford and Exeter, and probably on many other Willis instruments, the combination of swell 8' flute, salicional and 4' flute, possibly also with a small diapason, is just ravishing.
Personally, I can never quite make up my mind whether I want the swell oboe on before the mixture, after the mixture, or with the mixture. It does depend partly upon the instrument concerned and the style and period of the piece you're trying to accompany/play. At Bath Abbey, for instance, the swell mixture is all but unusable in choral accompaniment (and Vox Humana's scheme for the Great pistons would also require a choir of hundreds to work on this organ!)
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Speed in hymns is clearly subjective, but should probably in part depend upon the size of the accoustic and congregation that one is playing for. I certainly wouldn't welcome advice from the clergy on this matter - any more than they seem able to accept advice on the length of their sermons!
Personally I worry when I read about people who count a rigid number of beats between verses. I'm sure this is neither desirable nor correct. There is a natural feel that tells you when the next verse is due, if you get this right the choir and congregation have no problems. (If you really feel a need to count, the number of beats due must surely depend upon the number of beats in a bar and whether there's the verse starts on an up-beat - it can't always be two.) I don't think you can expect the congregation to be mentally counting "one two" in between each verse - if its not right for them its not right for the organist either.
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I conduct a choral society that uses Pershore Abbey for most of its orchestral concerts, so I do get to hear most of whats going on.
Over the last 10-15 years the abbey has goot through directors of music at quite a rate. They have a fairly new, young and enthusiastic director of music at present who is working to revitalise the abbey's music and he is certainly talking in terms of the Bradford organ being replaced in the not too distant future.
As I understand it, the plan involves having two pipe towers each side of the west window (the wall is not entirely blank), it would be very difficult to see how this could work on trackers, but in any case the plan is for these to be part of a hybrid organ with the digitals being provided by Allen.
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Divisionals:-
the great merit of these is flexibility. You don't need to programme them in advance for whatever piece you're going to play you can just play! Also if you get out of sync with your sequencer you may have little option but to go back to the good old divisionals. You can generally sit down at any organ and play in the expectation that the divisionals will give a crescendo of reasonable settings on each manual, whereas when visiting other organs you have no way of predicting what the generals will have been set up to do.
Generals:-
are particularly useful when you need to change several things in one go. For example if you have a Nunc Dimittis setting with a quiet ending followed immediately by a loud Gloria you can change swell, great and coupler combinations in a single button press. Also great for launching straight into a concluding voluntary after a hymn or whatever. The drawback, for me anyway, is that I tend to set generals for specific pieces and they have to be constanty reset if this is how you use them.
Steppers / sequencers:-
frightening to the unitiated, but absolutely wonderful in many circumstances. I do feel that performances loose some spontanaity, but this is compensated by the degree of certainty that you'll reproduce the sounds you've planned. Drawbacks are that you need plenty of time to set the things up. It may well at least double the time you need to practice and prepare as a visiting organist. Also, as one of the previous repondents has suggested, you must press the advance piston exactly as planned - miss one out in the heat of the moment and you've had it. You also need to be confident that the settings you're so carefully progamming during private practice will work when it comes to practicing with the choir. Conductors will rarely allow time for you to reprogramme the thing if they shout up "we could do with a bit more there" or whatever. You also need some system of noting in your copy exactly which sequence number you are on at any time so that when you're asked to go back to bar 76 you can put the sequencer back to the relevant setting. Of course, next time you play the piece, either because you're on a different organ or because you've reprogrammed those settings in the mean time, all of you're previous markings are worthless and you'll have to rub them out and start again.
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In terms of an instrument designed to for visual impact and to harmonize with the architecture of the building that houses it, how about Coventry Cathedral ?
For notable instruments let down by their visual impact, St. Mary Redcliffe springs to mind.
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You're quite correct, its Amorbach. I've obviously got to an age where I'm no longer able to remember where I've been (it was about 20 years ago I should think).
Nevertheless I think the photo you have provided a link to backs up my suggestion that its quite a sight.
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Would agree with the general opinion that Exeter is visually stunning, and also that Norwich is very fine too. Surprised that no-one's suggested Bath Abbey, although its not in the main line of sight down the nave it is nonetheless a wonderfully imposing site.
In foreign parts organs I have found to be visually memorable include Albi Cathedral and Auerbach Abbey.
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The new great reeds were said to have a (slightly) french character and were certainly quite exciting. As I've said before, to experience the posaune coming through the texture in Howell's St. Paul's Service, for example, was quite an experience.
However, the old 8' tromba was a fine stop too, not excessively fat & heavy. An lp of music for boys voices, with Donald Hunt conducting and Harry Bramma (I think) accompanying, was issued not long before the WW rebuild and the tromba can be heard to good effect in "Let the bright seraphim".
I understand from my inside contact that Adrian Lucus played the H&H organ on the national news this week, in connection with the EEC RoHS issue, so its obviously still not entirely unplayable. (Did anyone see this?)
Associating With The Organ
in The Organ
Posted
I think we may have had this topic before, but a few obvious contenders from the choral society repertiore:-
Walton Coronation Te Deum
Berlioz Te Deum
Faure Requiem
Durufle Requiem
Britten St Nicolas