nfortin
-
Posts
511 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by nfortin
-
-
Deja vu, we've discussed this before.
The old Tewkesbury 5-manual walker console had double-touch cancelling. It was a nightmare. You'd be playing on swell to mixture for example, add the hautboy and all the other stops would go off. The "Double Touch Canceller" was always the first stop tab to search for amongst the hundreds available!
Also invented by the devil are double-touch thumb and toe pistons, typically which add pedal combinations if pressed sufficiently firmly. I've been playing an instrument like this for the last 18 months and still cant accurately gauge how hard to press the damn things to get a predictable result.
-
Well being very parochial:-
Westminster Cathedral
Hereford Cathedral
Bristol Cathedral
Tewkesbury Abbey
Tetbury Parish Church (Gloucestershire)
St. Pauls Cathedral, London
The Tetbury organ is the one I grew up with. I guess its very little known. Originally 2M Nicolson extended to 3M by Binns. The great organ, for its size, is stunning, including the finest 3-rank mixture I've ever come across.
-
First, the real question is why is there a clarinet? In my opinion a nearly worthless stop. Even Virgil Fox said—and I was there when he said it—he could count the number of good clarinets he'd encountered on one hand and have several fingers left over. He almost always added a nazard when he had one to add (often he did the same thing with the typical “organ” oboe). A clarinet and no cormorne/krummhorn? Surely one or the other should have come first, and there is not even a preparation for one. I guess the Choir Rohrschalmei is supposed to deputize.
Well each to their own tastes of course, but there are many wonderful clarinet stops in the UK and, as has been discussed before under other topics, these are extremely valueable in choral accompaniment and in much of the english romantic repertoire.
If the main purpose of an organ is to accompany choral evensong a crumhorn is an unnecessary (and often unusable) rude noise!
-
Its interesting to see the different priorities some of us have in deciding which church posts appeal. Although I'd love to have a top-notch pipe organ at my disposal I'm actually far more interested in the quality and scope of the choir. I'd be very frustrated in a church with no choir or a choir with no ability or ambition, but am happy to tolerate a lesser organ for the opportunity to work with a good choir.
-
I think, to be fair, the argument about replacing electronic instruments at regular intervals is often overstated. I would estimate the life span of an electronic at around 20-25 years. If you look at the recent history of our cathedral organs most are being overhauled at least this often at costs in the hundred-thousands. Even in "ordinary" parish churches a thorough cleaning is likely to be needed every 25-30 years at a cost equivalent to a good quality electronic.
-
My church is about to take delivery of a new digital instrument. I heartily agree that there is no substitute for real pipe sound, but irrespective of the cost argument, which is complex, some ancient buildings pose real difficulties in finding a location for a pipe instrument - but I'm getting off the point.
In my researches before placing the contract for our new organ, which by-the-by is being custom built by Wyvern Organs, I went to some lengths to try out "state of the art" offerings from everyone you would expect up to and including Copeman-Hart. As other correspondents have suggested, many of these instruments, even some of the most expensive, cause headaches within quite a short period. I've no idea why this should be, but I've certainly suffered as a result. The quality of sound differs dramatically too. In no particular order, you could not mistake an Eminent for a Copeman-Hart, or a Rodgers for a Makin, or a Wyvern for a Viscount.
So, what am I trying to say? There is still a long way to go before even the best pipe organ can come near to replicating the experience of a good pipe organ. Having said that, there are many dreadful, dull, heavy, pipe organs in village churches which are of little merit, and we as a body are sometimes dishonest in suggesting that any pipe organ is by its very nature a better and more musical proposition than any digital instrument.
-
Console pictures - superb, worth a thousand words as they say.
Re. Rick Wakeman, I'm in no way known for my appreciation of any non-classical music, but I would have to admit to finding the "organ" interlude in "Close to the edge" a thrilling moment.
Sad perhaps, but honest.
-
Pershore Abbey, in Worcestershire, currently has a slightly strange 3-manual Bradford digital organ. (Strange because there's no swell-choir coupler.) This replaced a 3-manual Walker organ some years ago.
As I understand it, the Bradford organ is going to be replaced with a hybrid (part pipe, part digital) organ with Allen providing the console and the digital ranks, I can't remember who was supplying the pipes but I think it was an non-UK (possibly scandinavian?) builder.
-
If we're now citing individual ranks, the Fanfare Trumpet (or whatever its called) added to the organ in Cirencester Parish Church around 25 years ago is pretty foul and unmusical. Its louder than the rest of this rather disappointing instrument put together.
Perhaps this will be sorted out in the forthcoming H&H rebuild.
Also, thinking back to Paul's earlier comments, the Cremona on the choir organ of Gloucester cathedral is certainly not to my taste...
-
I have a particular dislike of Nason Flutes. Perhaps I just haven't come across a good one.
-
Perhaps I'd better not comment further after all - except to say that I meant no offence by my earlier remark.
-
This is madness!
-
I won't do it, of course, but I did briefly toy with the idea of enlarging the ex-Tewkesbury Milton console (now mine!) which I am planning to re-employ for my home organ.
Very interested to hear that you've got this, you must have a big room!
I used to love playing at the 5-manual console - even though so much of it was non-functional. For me the most important thing on arrival was always to locate - and turn off - the double touch canceller. When this was turned on hand registration was something of a gamble. But it was wonderful sitting up there in a cupboard and looking out of a gun port, ah, those were the days.
The Kenneth Jones re-incarnation has lost a little of the old-world charm of the Walker setup, but as I've commented elsewhere, has provided the abbey with an absolutely superb organ.
-
I too was sceptical about the need for steppers & multiple memories, but having had the opportunity to use these facilities on a number of large organs I must say I'm a convert to the cause.
There's no doubt that if (and its a big if) you've got time to programme the thing, it makes accompanying any service much easier. Without a general piston available you frequently have to press perhaps three pistons in the blink of an eye. For example, you may have a Nunc Dimittis which ends quietly immediately followed by a loud Gloria - in which case you probably need to press pistons on both Great and Swell as well as the Great-Pedal coupler, all while also watching the conductor. How much easier just to use the + toe piston.
-
I would agree with other correspondents that the OR has taken a serious turn for the worse, I've been really disappointed with the last 2 issues.
From what I remember being told at school, Organs Disease used to be treated with penicillin.
-
It looks very good and exciting on paper, but its interesting to see that whereas I thought the plan was for 2 new organs, one at each end of the cathedral, its actually for 3 with an extra one in the middle.
I'm still struggling to believe the sheer extravagance of all this, and can't imagine how on earth a small city like Worcester will manage to pay for the upkeep in years to come.
ps. I also agree about the "Sackbut", what a silly name.
-
I'm very impressed with the look and feel of the new Tickells web site, but there's a distinct lack of information about what's planned for Worcester. A stop list would tell us something more.
By coincidence, I played my first Tickell organ on Saturday - or at least a Tickell rebuild - in Sherborne Abbey. The workmanship of the console was very fine and it was a comfortable instrument to play. I have no idea what the organ sounded like before and hence can not judge the extent to which the sound of the instrument is "Tickell" or predecessors. The canticles for evensong were Howells Coll. Reg., which with some difficulty it was possible to register, but I ruled out playing a Howells voluntary as the sounds available were to my ears completely unsuitable. I do hope the new Worcester organ is more suitable for realising the core english repertoire than this!
-
I am currently rehearsing this work with a choral society which I co-direct and would agree that it is fabulous music. As a matter of interest, the petit orgue part has far more work that the grand orgue and is the more difficult of the two.
Anyone interested in hearing this live in a super building and with a wonderful grand orgue should come to our concert in Tewkesbury Abbey on Saturday 12th November (7:30pm). We're hiring an electronic as the second organ. The programme also includes Vierne's Messe Solennelle, Faure's Cantique, Cesar Frank's Psalm 150, plus a few solo items.
See http://www.silurian-consort.org.uk/ for further information
I have the Worcester recording on LP and agree its well worth hearing - as there appears to be only a single recording of this work on issue at the moment surely this could be re-released?
-
As someone who has been fortunate enough over the last few years to play for a considerable number of cathedral evensongs as a visiting organist, the "scope" system sounds a nightmare. I can't think of anything more difficult to come to terms with without many hours to aclimatise & adjust.
Like many modern console aids it can, no doubt, be of considerable advantage, but really at any modern organ it should be possible to just sit down and play without having fear of the unexpected. I think organ builders should be sensitive to this, and there needs always to be an option to turn the system off and have all pistons revert to traditional behaviour. Equally no one should ever fit a general crescendo pedal that can not be disabled. and I would even suggest the stepper piston system would benefit from a simple on-off switch somewhere handy.
On the latter topic, I must say that these steppers/sequencers, call them what you will, are brilliant if (and as a visiting organist you frequently don't) you have time to program them. However, the + toe piston is often perillously close to the Great-Pedal reversible and this can be a real trap for the unwary. I would also personally be very cautious about using such a system without the visual confimation of what memory level I was on in those handy little displays above the top manual. So although not historically correct I would not want the displays to be hidden in a draw.
-
I'm very saddened by this discussion.
What on earth is going on!
Surely we all want to encourage the next generation of organists. I've always believed that its better for any organ to be played than not to be played.
I've a little simpathy for those churches with busy vistors' schedules but only up to a point. These same churches expect to appoint the best available organists & choirmasters. Where do they think they come from?
To relagate organ practice, whether for beginners or for the titulaire, below the requirements of of group of (perhaps fee paying) tourists is to sum up the nature of the challenge facing parish church musicians today.
-
I wonder how many choirmasters out in the "ordinary" parishes have ever had a singing lesson in their life? Part of the problem is that many choirs are run by people who have absolutely no idea how to sing themselves.
I have assisted on several RSCM courses in the Bristol and Gloucester dioceses in the last few years and never cease to be shocked at the extremely limited vocal range of the majority of the youngsters that come along. Many struggle to sing above an E. I often try, tactfully, to ask whether they do any scales or other vocal exercises in their own churches (its difficult, one doesn't want to be seen to be criticising their own choir directors) and very few choirs seem to give any time to vocal training at all - they just learn the music.
In the cathedrals a different issue applies. Cathedral appointments generally work on closed shop basis - this makes it very difficult to bring in new ideas. Many cathedrals also give individual singing lessons to the boys these days, often bringing in teachers from beyond the organ loft to carry this out. This too may be leading to a different sound.
-
Thankyou John Sayer for having the courage to put it writing what perhaps many of us had been thinking.
-
I'm sure we all enjoy a bit of good humour, but am I alone in finding many of "Enda's" posts strikingly unfunny. I may be an old stick-in-the-mud, but I must say that my own enjoyment of these discussion boards has been lessened by this constant stream of seaside postcard humour.
-
[insofar as the organ is concerned, to my mind, the most obvious "prom" item would be the stunning "Olivet in Paris" by Dupre, with its solo organ sections and magnificent choral-writing.
How about the Berlioz Te Deum?
Herbert Howells
in The Organ
Posted
Well you know my admiration for the Bristol organ (although not its manual actions), but you must be joking re. acoustic similarity to Gloucester. Gloucester has a far heavier, more resonant acoustic.