nfortin
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Posts posted by nfortin
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I raised a topic entitled "St. Michael's, Tenbury" on these discussion boards in 2005 - but it received very little interest. This is a shame because in my opinion this organ is both a fascinating historical artifact and a national treasure. It sounds superb too!
A word of warning to anyone visiting though - the approach roads either side of Tenbury are popular targets for speed traps.
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Of course, there are the occasional opportunities for the organist to play "see who can spot the tune". A month or two back we had a "Sea Sunday" for some reason that escapes me now. During the Parish Eucharist I don't think anyone spotted the references to Bobby Shaftoe and Tom Bowling that mysteriously crept in. However the choir clearly latched on to the fact that they were processing in to "What shall we do with a drunken sailor" at evensong and failed to keep straight faces.
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I'm very happy to re-state my absolute delight with the custom built Wyvern organ installed in my church in February this year. This, of course, uses the Pheonix system. The quality of the flutes in particular, closely matched by the principals and reeds, is just phenomenal. There have been several occasions when I've been practicing and vistors have come up to me to ask where the pipes are - even though they're staring at an unappologetic battery of unscreened loudspeakers.
I undertook a great deal of "field research", followed up by on site visits with a subset of my PCC, before our contract was awarded to Wyvern. In what is, of course, a very subjective area, to my ears it came down to a straight choice between Wyvern, who are very competitive in their pricing, and Copeman-Hart at double the price. I'm sure Phoenix would have matched the Wyvern sound - which in the end I thought was the best.
Phoenix and Wyvern, I believe have an agreement not to quote against each other, but I'm sure both offer an unmatched ability to deliver a top quality digital instrument and a very competetive price.
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I don't object personally, but I think its somewhat unecessary because when a job is repeatedly advertised over a short period of time, as this has been, organists quickly catch on to the fact that all is not as it should be.
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I think the powers that be are coming round to the idea of a better replacement, probably a Hauptwerk installation.
Richard, I played for a wedding in Charlbury c1978, I don't remember the organ at all but would have said it was a pipe instrument then?
You're not that far from my church at Charlton Kings, do come and try our new Wyvern organ if you're in the market, I think you'll be impressed.
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Interesting that most of the replies are from those of us who can be easily identified from the user name that we've chosen.
I'm Neil Fortin, grew up in Tetbury, Gloucestershire, before it had any royal connections, and learnt to play on the fine Nicolson/Binns organ in the parish church. Later had lessons from Paul Trepte at Worcester Cathedral where I sang with and frequently accompanied the cathedral voluntary choir.
Currently live in Cheltenham and am DoM at St. Mary's, Charlton Kings. Also joint Musical Director of The Silurian Consort. Member of the RSCM Midlands and South West Cathedral Singers though rarely sing for them now having become their regular accompanist.
Married, but separated, with two teen-aged daughters, one of whom lives with me and the other with her mother. Isn't life a bugger sometimes!
Unashamed lover of Willis & Hill organs and hater of that abomination in my diocesan cathedral. Also not ashamed to admit that I find the new toaster in my own church to be more versatile, muscial and enjoyable to play than many pipe organs - including some of the many cathedrals that I've been priviledged to play in over the last few years.
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Stretching a point perhaps, but the "O Salutaris Hostia" from Saint-Seans mass for 4 voices is a beautiful movement written for chorus sopranos & altos with organ accompaniment.
This little known mass is a gem. I have the Worcester/Hunt recording on LP but no longer own a record deck so can't listen to it!
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The frequency a pipe produces is proportional to the speed of sound divided by the length of the pipe. Increasing the speed of sound increases the frequency, because the waves get from one end of the pipe to the other in a shorter time.
The approximation that only the length of the pipe is involved is fine provided you are comparing the pitches of various pipes in a body of air that is all at the same temperature and pressure. Once you allow the temperature and pressure to vary, as it does from day to day, you have to take into account the effect of the speed of sound.
If, as the temperature rises, the proportion by which the speed of sound increases is greater than that by which the pipe lengthens, the pitch will rise. This will normally be the case, because the speed of sound increases by 3.5% between 0C and 20C, whereas a pure tin pipe will have lengthened by only 0.06%.
A pipe will expand in diameter by the same proportion it expands in length. Thus, to a first order approximation, its scale won't alter.
Oh dear, many thanks for trying to explain. I did pass A-level physics, quite some years ago, but I think I'll have to go and sit in a dark corner now!
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Hmm. Starts me wondering: could we have lost the finest organ in the world without ever knowing it existed? If so, where was it? Pointless questions, of course!
Well clearly we can't cite organs that we never knew existed, but, close to home, I guess those (seemingly many) of us in the Westminster Cathedral camp would tend towards thinking that the Alexandra Palace must go down as a great loss. Never having heard the instrument either in its pomp or in its present reduced state I'm not in a strong position to argue, but its reputation is certainly very high. It seems unlikely that it will ever be restored to a true reflection of its former state.
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True, but it should give you a reasonable idea of how the instrument sounds in the building, not just at the console.
Agreed, but you can get this at a recital - its not necessarily the same as your own service playing. The bottom line is that you can't be in front of house listening to your own playing. If you have a deputy that you can trust to play using your own typical registrations then well and good, but in many a parish church the available deputies would not be sufficiently competent to achieve this.
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I seem to remember from my Physics studies that it was basically the length of a flue pipe governed the pitch - not the volume of air inside it.
FF
That was certainly my understanding, in which case the argument, if I've understood it, that the metal of a pipe would expand both inwardly and outwardly is irrelevant. I just don't understand why expansion of a metal flue would cause its tuning to go sharp.
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It would be interesting to know how many organist have got someone else to play a service for them while they have sat in the congregation to listen to their instrument as it is heard by the majority.
FF
Yes, but this is only valid if the person you get to play while you listen uses the instrument in the same way that you would yourself, which, for many of us out in the sticks, is difficult to achieve.
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This, Blaze Away and Liberty Bell are all transcriptions, of course. Nothing at all wrong with that, but do you suspect audiences enjoy transcriptions more than 'real' organ music?
Possibly, although audiences vary and it is dangerous to generalise. I wasn't trying to go quite that far in what I was suggesting, but I certainly don't think recitalists should be sniffy about including transcriptions in a programme. If I could play the ride of the walkeries I certainly would.
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Don't be so dull the lot of you! No wonder the general public only turn out for Carlo Curley. For me its a choice of two:-
- Sousa - Liberty Bell
- Holzman - Blaze Away
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Since the lighting in the organ loft at Salisbury is not that good, personally I would not wish to have the entire console in black (as Truro used to be and Hereford still is).
Well I have yet to experience Salisbury, but I really like the console at Hereford and find, as an occasional visitor, it very comfortable and easy to feel at home with. The main difficulty is in negotiating the precarious ladder to the loft whilst carrying an attache case full of music, not made easier by the spreading waistline...
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Many thanks for this.
No surprise abtout JF. A white heat player at the top of his game. I still recall his Dupre series at SPES. Yes, on a point that I have mention before, I do think that a full length recital needs a major work and HF will provide this next week with Frank's GPS.
Excuse the initials, but what the F**K is this all about? I'm sure it makes you fell very smug writing in code but doesn't it defeat the object?
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Can't agree with St. Mary Redcliffe I'm afraid. Its the only organ I've ever played that has struck me as being unpleasantly loud, and the choir and echo are too soft by far compared to the rest of the instrument.
These things are, of course entirely subjective, and few of us ordinary punters have had the opportunity to travel the world and hear or play its greatest organ. For me, the finest organ I've heard (but sadly not played) in this country is Westminster Cathedral, a view reputedly shared by Carlo Curley, although I'm prepared to accept that we may not all think him the best arbiter of taste.
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And as for Hereford, I don't think the additions of the 1970s really did any favours to the character or 'pedigree' of that particular instrument.
I don't think the character of the Hereford instrument was very much altered by the rebuild in the late 70's. A mixture stop was added to the great and a few extra ranks on the pedals I believe, but nothing else was changed so if you don't use the new mixture its pretty much original Willis.
Re. SGH, it seems unlikely that Nicolsons would come in significantly cheaper than David Wells once you take travelling and subsistance costs into consideration.
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I was DOM for a short period (c.18 months) of St. Michael's, Bishops Stortford and took the choir to sing Sunday services in St Edmundsbury. This was during the period that Paul Trepte, who had been my organ teacher in Worcester, was the cathedral organist.
The organ was, and presumably still is, typical of Nicholson's work of the late 1960's and 70's including the dreaded "Lamberts Patent Action". Tonally undistinguished to say the least. Paul Trepte had come to St. Edmundsbury from St. Mary's Warwick and I remember commenting to him along the lines that "you must like large Nicholson organs coming here from St. Mary's Warwick". As I recall his reply was that of a forthright Yorkshireman.
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Thankyou for the story Vox Humana, but this is very frustrating as it makes me want to know who you are. I've commented before on the use of aliases on this notice board which, quite frankly, I wish were not allowed!
Incidentally, talking of St. George's, Windsor, and of no relevance whatsoever, one of my daughter's godmothers is Hylton-Stewart's daughter.
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Indeed so. There are so few resources that only 2 channels (i.e. 20 generals) can be set aside as "fixed" - no 1 for congregational, and no 2 for choir work. You certainly have to know your way around them but there is a kind of logic to both - basically, general crescendo 1-5, "special effects" 6-10. The rest are in constant use for specific anthems, recitals etc etc. It's been used for 3 major concerts in the last fortnight, 2 visiting organists with choirs for special services, plus use by an organists' course, and in the next month it's got Elgar Spirit of the Lord (which takes 2.5 channels), RVW Let all the world (1.5 channels), a recitalist, an R3 broadcast and 3 visiting organists to cope with. The problems are well known and I shan't be able to set up for my recital until the day itself, which makes practice very frustrating. Bearing in mind it has a modern AJ&L Taylor capture system and all-electric stop action, the cost to increase the resources to 96 channels + stepper/sequencer is comparatively modest. You try convincing the powers that be, however! Please send me an email of complaint and I'll gladly forward it.
I'm really glad that you seem to agree with my comments as I certainly don't set out to cause offence, but at as an occasional visitor I have to view it as a priviledge to be able to play such an organ and am certainly in no position to complain. I do however feel free to comment as I have done.
Your reply provides us with a real insight into the trials and tribulations of working within the limitations of this instrument, yet many of us will be aware of its superb tonal resources. The ongoing debate around historic restoration vs living, working instruments could do well to ponder how best to utilise instruments such as that in Romsey Abbey.
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A word of caution, though I'm far from sympathetic...
The organ I first learnt upon is a little known, and grossly undersetimated, 3M Binns (extended from earlier 2M Nicolson) in Tetbury Parish Church (Gloucestershire). It really is a very fine beast, few mechanical aids, but fabulous great chorus including one of the finest 3-rank mixtures imaginable.
During the time that I grew up as a chorister, and later effectively organ scholar, with this instrument it occupied a positition in the south-east of the church. In the late 1970's it was rebuilt and relocated to the west gallery - indisputably a better position for the organ to be heard to its full effect. However, a significant proportion of the cost of the project arose from the decision to relocate the organ - and it has never recovered from it. With hindsight, if the same funds had been allocated to contracting a better builder to renovate the instrument in its existing location it would have been money better spent.
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There are many instruments with just a few mechanical composition pedals, and no thumb pistons, which are reasonably comfortable to play. The instrument I first learnt on, a 3-M Binns in Tetbury Parish Church, falls into this category. I remember Roy Massey giving a suberb recital on this organ having not practiced on it at all before he started the recital. (I also remember John Sanders being completely unable to cope with the registration changes in Bairstow's Blessed City on this organ, but thats another story.)
At this risk of offending David Coram, the one organ I've played recently that I found almost impossible to register was Romsey Abbey. For an occasional visitor the current system of using the composition pedals to control general pistons is certainly not user friendly, and when I was there the current settings on these seemed somewhat random and not very useful. I do think that this is one instument that, for all its undoubted historic integrity, would really benefit from the availability of a modern piston system.
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I've commented under previous topics that, unlike Paul Derrett, I quite like the Cheltenham Town Hall organ. I would probably agree with Paul that its not an ideal recital instrument and certainly is not the instrument upon which to play the works of J S Bach, nevertheless it does superbly well at supporting large carol concerts and the like and is probably the best organ I know for providing the organ parts in the orchestration of the great Elgar choral works. Full swell is remarkably rich for so few stops. Its also an intrument on which you can bring the house down with pieces (for the non-purists) like the Liberty Bell or Blaze Away.
St Michael's, Tenbury
in General discussion
Posted
I once made the same mistake attending a conference at the University of Warwick.