Hire Agreement for organ lessons

[geigen]

A few weeks ago I was asked to give organ lessons to a pupil in one of the churches where I play regularly, so I did the DBS check and the safeguarding training both of which the diocese requires. All expected.

One day, out of the blue, the PSO sent me a Hire Agreement to sign. There are numerous clauses and conditions in it but, in essence, I need to take out Public Liability insurance in case I, or my pupil, damages the church in any way. Naturally, I contacted the local Organists' Association which has members who teach the organ. They were extremely surprised I had been sent the document. I have been unable to discover if the music staff at the nearby cathedral are required to sign such an agreement!

The objective of this post is not to debate the rights or wrongs of my having been sent this document with its requirements. Rather, I write to alert the forum that these things are on their way. My vicar is a sensible person and she checked again with the diocese on my behalf. When we last spoke she said that our parish is very much ahead of the game as regards the Parish Dashboard.

I would be interested to know if anyone else has signed such an agreement but it appears that this is some red tape which colleagues can look forward to receiving.

[Steve Goodwin]

Not something I've heard of but I suspect it would not apply to those of us who are 'employed' by the church. I know many of us use the standard contracts provided by many of the music organisations (even for lowly paid parish positions). These are contracts of employment so personal Public Liability would not be relevant as you're covered by the Church's Employer's Liability insurance.

If you don't have such a contract then I suppose (I am not a lawyer!) the church authorities could insist on it but where would it end? Would it apply to pupils as well?

[Colin Pykett]

PLI has to be taken seriously for those who are self-employed.  I don't give music lessons in church but organ consultancy, which I have undertaken, is a similar situation in the sense one obviously has to enter a church building and often the interior of the organ as well.  I was glad to have it on occasions such as when hearing the sound of creaking and cracking wood when high up on a rotten passage board on top of some Great Organ pipework!  (Fortunately I was able to retreat quickly enough ... ).  It never struck me as particularly cheap though, and the broker through whom I took out the insurance explained that was probably because I mentioned 'soldering' as an activity which I might get involved in (as I sometimes did), presumably with the implied fire risk.

But I don't think the matter should be dismissed merely as 'red tape' as geigen suggested, in this litigious day and age.  Even if the church itself didn't come after you personally in the event of a claim, their insurers almost certainly would if they got involved.  I mean, it would not be beyond imagination that you might carelessly leave the organ blower running all night after leaving the building.  The ancient motors in some of these can get dangerously hot and catch fire because of the state of their sleeve bearings from which the white metal has long since run out.  If you lost a subsequent court case, you could conceivably lose your house as well ...

As mentioned above, although I've never undertaken tuition in a church, I did inform my house insurers that I would be undertaking such activities at home.  They asked a number of penetrating questions such as how many pupil sessions per week (on which they placed an upper limit), the duration of each session and the precise nature of the tuition.  However it was a pleasant surprise that they then accepted the additional risk without increasing the premium, provided I stayed within their limits.

[geigen]

My use of the words 'red tape' merely referred to the fact that, 50 years ago, I am pretty sure none of my organ teachers had PLI. I was not actually dismissing the requirement but bringing the Hire Agreement to the attention of board members. All Colin Pykett's points are well made.

I have raised the question - at church - regarding the potential situtation where the pupil leaves the blower on (although I have trained him well and it is linked to the pedal light so he should notice) after a practice session. As yet, no answer. Incidentally, my father was self-employed as a carpenter/builder and painter/decirator and he certainly had PLI during his working life.

[Rowland Wateridge]

5 hours ago, Steve Goodwin said:

These are contracts of employment so personal Public Liability would not be relevant as you're covered by the Church's Employer's Liability insurance.

Unless things have changed since my day, an Employer’s Liability policy indemnifies the employer (in this case the Church) against claims for personal injury to the employee in the course of his/ her work.  There is no element of cover for claims by third parties or for damage caused by the employee.   It may well be that your church has arranged liability insurance on a more comprehensive basis than this - certainly worth your checking to see whether it covers your actions for which the church would be vicariously liable.   But even that might not be foolproof.   Personal liability insurance, properly arranged by a professional, is likely to be the strongest safeguard.

[innate]

I have had Public Liability Insurance through membership of the Musicians’ Union for decades. The last time I looked it was for up to £10million. One of the many benefits of union membership.