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New organ for Cambridge

Sydney Sussex College

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#1 AJJ

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 04:56 PM

This looks interesting:

http://www.flentrop...._suss_coll.html

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"…We can’t criticize the organ for being boring. In such cases it is the organist that is boring. There is no such thing as a boring organ."

#2 Sotto Voce

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 09:59 PM

Why is the quintfluit described as 3' when the hazard is 2 2/3? Is there a difference, if so, what interval does a 3' stop produce above the equivalent 8' ?

I struggle to see the point of the salicional.

#3 David Drinkell

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 10:06 PM

It looks a bit bloated on the Great compared with the Swell, if they're intending to accompany a choir with it. The Salcional would warm up the Roerfluit nicely, but I think a bit more reed tone in the Swell is more useful than the quint and cornet on the Great.

#4 GrossGeigen

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 10:49 PM

With new (and fairly substantial) two-manual instruments still being built with (in my view) the very limiting provision of Open Diapason and Stopped Diapason as the only Great unison flues I would personally be glad of a Salicional-type stop as a third 8ft register. I'm sure that the stop as proposed here will prove its worth, both on its own terms and as an effective colouring timbre to the companion 8fts - not to mention some less orthodox combinations I'm sure....

#5 pcnd5584

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 11:39 PM

With new (and fairly substantial) two-manual instruments still being built with (in my view) the very limiting provision of Open Diapason and Stopped Diapason as the only Great unison flues I would personally be glad of a Salicional-type stop as a third 8ft register. I'm sure that the stop as proposed here will prove its worth, both on its own terms and as an effective colouring timbre to the companion 8fts - not to mention some less orthodox combinations I'm sure....

 

Indeed. it will be interesting to see how it works as an accompanimental instrument.I would also agree with David Drinkell that it needs a greater choice of reed-tone in the Swell.


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#6 AJJ

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 05:56 AM

It will be interesting to compare this instrument with the Flentrop in Chelsea - I have not heard this.

 

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"…We can’t criticize the organ for being boring. In such cases it is the organist that is boring. There is no such thing as a boring organ."

#7 Andrew Butler

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 07:05 AM

On paper, I would say that there are more accompanimental possibilities than with the existing instrument, which only has an 8' flute as the only unison flue on the Swell - although it does have 16 & 8 reeds.  Time will tell.



#8 David Drinkell

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 07:25 AM

The present organ originally also had a Violin Diapason in the Swell which would presumably have added to the possibilities, but it was always a slightly odd scheme.

#9 AJJ

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 12:04 PM

The current incarnation of the soon to be replaced instrument seems to have a decidedly odd stoplist - going on that alone the Flentrop looks as if it will be a welcome change.

http://www.npor.org.....html?RI=N13274

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"…We can’t criticize the organ for being boring. In such cases it is the organist that is boring. There is no such thing as a boring organ."

#10 David Drinkell

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 12:25 PM

Yes, it was odd, the revamped version as well as the original. I wouldn't call the Flentrop exactly normal - it emphasises certain aspects to the exclusion of others and therefore looks odd itself.

From the look of it, the most exciting and interesting modern organ in Cambridge seems to be the St-Martin at Girton - 26 stops spread over four manuals. With a spot of imagination, this could be a truly inspirational beast for many types of repertoire.

But I guess it's pretty odd, too!

#11 GrossGeigen

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 02:57 PM

In terms of assessing what the priorities are when compiling a stoplist for a new two-manual instrument with 20+ stops, the proposed H&H scheme for St. Andrew's Bedford makes quite a comparison with the Flentrop under discussion here. The appeal leaflet for that instrument is available on line.

#12 AJJ

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 03:28 PM

The H&H Edington Priory organ is also a well thought out 2 manual design - the Mander for St Mary's Merton looks to be likewise. 8' variety and decent choruses on manuals, reeds and flute combinations that work well as soloists or in chorus, a decent swell box and something more than just a lone pedal 16' can cope with a surprising ammount of repertoire and service music. And if it is all on a nice mechanical action one could almost be talking about the 'village' type instruments I play most sundays!

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"…We can’t criticize the organ for being boring. In such cases it is the organist that is boring. There is no such thing as a boring organ."

#13 Contrabombarde

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 07:20 PM

A Swell suboctave coupler could partially get around the lack of 16 foot tone, and would be fairly standard on romantic French organs. But would it work on an instrument such as this - and if not, and space or budget only allowed for one reed, what would be the most suitable reed I wonder?



#14 AJJ

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 07:33 PM

.............and if not, and space or budget only allowed for one reed, what would be the most suitable reed I wonder?

I'd suggest a fairly bright and open toned Oboe - combined with other stops on the Swell it could be 'coloured' or not as desired for solo work and would give quite an effective full chorus with or without the Mixture.

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"…We can’t criticize the organ for being boring. In such cases it is the organist that is boring. There is no such thing as a boring organ."

#15 David Drinkell

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Posted 15 July 2015 - 05:21 AM

I'd go for a trumpet. With a good box, it would fulfil most of the functions required of a Swell reed. The Cormorne could go on the Great, where it could be a reasonable chorus reed as well as a solo.

The problem, as I see it, with many recent schemes which lack anything more than an oboe in the Swell, is that you lose most of the potential for bringing a fair amount of Swell through a good bit of Great by opening the box - an effect which is worth having in many types of music.

#16 AJJ

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Posted 15 July 2015 - 06:15 AM

I'd go for a trumpet. With a good box, it would fulfil most of the functions required of a Swell reed. The Cormorne could go on the Great, where it could be a reasonable chorus reed as well as a solo.The problem, as I see it, with many recent schemes which lack anything more than an oboe in the Swell, is that you lose most of the potential for bringing a fair amount of Swell through a good bit of Great by opening the box - an effect which is worth having in many types of music.


Ideally of course an Oboe and a Trumpet/Cornopean on the Swell with Trumpet and Cromorne/Clarinet on the Great.

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"…We can’t criticize the organ for being boring. In such cases it is the organist that is boring. There is no such thing as a boring organ."

#17 David Drinkell

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Posted 15 July 2015 - 01:17 PM

Although continental builders have tried a few Tubas in recent years, and (as a senior British organ builder remarked) had been "aching to have a go at a really big diapason", I don't recall any of them producing a Cornopean yet. I'm probably wrong and wait to be corrected!

The effect I mentioned of the Swell coming through the Great is helped, of course, by the Swell Mixture being at least one pitch higher than that on the Great and this is useful in other ways also. I don't see much point in a Swell Mixture that is more grave than its partner on the Great, unless there's an octave coupler.

Another point which really does mess up the accompanimental potential of many instruments is the provision of a flute as the Swell 2'. This deprives the player of a bit of useful sparkle at a dynamic level which is needed very often. It also means that the mixture comes on with a crash and/or stands away from its support. The Swell 2' needs to be a principal, or at least a bright gemshorn or flageolet. Of course, a lot of this is dependent on the voicing, but the 2' flutes found so often (especially on continental organs) fail to inspire me.

#18 AJJ

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Posted 15 July 2015 - 02:46 PM

An interesting new two manual scheme (ableit larger than being discussed here) with a Cornopean. The partial enclosure of the Great seems to link back to Skinner etc. maybe?

http://www.cbfisk.co...ns/145_spec.pdf

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"…We can’t criticize the organ for being boring. In such cases it is the organist that is boring. There is no such thing as a boring organ."

#19 Contrabombarde

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Posted 15 July 2015 - 07:50 PM

An interesting new two manual scheme (ableit larger than being discussed here) with a Cornopean. The partial enclosure of the Great seems to link back to Skinner etc. maybe?

http://www.cbfisk.co...ns/145_spec.pdf

A

 

A clarinet on the Great with a 2 2/3 and 1 3/5 on the Swell - interesting. Sometimes I've seen both clarinet and cornet on the same manual, which seems a bit pointless at least for French baroque music.



#20 David Drinkell

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Posted 15 July 2015 - 08:20 PM

An interesting new two manual scheme (ableit larger than being discussed here) with a Cornopean. The partial enclosure of the Great seems to link back to Skinner etc. maybe?

http://www.cbfisk.co...ns/145_spec.pdf

A


Now, that's an interesting one (or it will be when they get it all in). I'm not sure that partial enclosure on the Great is worth the hassle, although I'm not averse to total enclosure. The Casavant at Memorial University here has a similar set-up and it's more of a nuisance than a blessing. Of course, if they had electric action and pitman chests, they could get a nice Choir Organ out of that lot by duplexing....




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