pcnd5584
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Posts posted by pcnd5584
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... The new organ should be a great improvement in this respect and, while the old cases could hardly be said to have been Gilbert Scott at his best, the new ones are a fine ornament to the building. ...
As far as I can recall, I think that the old cases were virtually identical (if not the same size) as that which is currently placed over the stalls at Bangor Cathedral (North Wales).
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As do the seller's notes.
And the names engraved on the stop-keys (click on a photograph....). David Drinkell - I believe that they were also (perhaps a touch unkindly) known as 'old ladies' teeth'. However, I agree with you; I much prefer draw-stops, but if I had to have a stop-key console, the Walker model was quite elegant. I wonder what happened to another, four-clavier console, which was recently disposed-of by a large church in the West Country....?
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I played the former instrument for a visiting choir in the summer of 2004, not long before it was de-commissioned. I thought that it sounded fine. It was certainly powerful, so one had to be careful in registering. However, there was also a wealth of quieter registers of great beauty, which made it, in my opinion, a superb accompanimental instrument. The two 32ft. flues were excellent. It also sounded fine in the voluntaries, where I did allow it to stretch its legs a little. I did not receive any complaints about excessive volume. The acoustic ambiance was certainly on the generous side, but from the console everything sounded fairly clear. However, this can be deceptive, with regard to Colin's comments about the lack of clarity in the body of the building.
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It looks to be a beautiful and interesting building;
http://www.stjohnsoulton.org.uk/inside
I shall ask David Houlder if he knows anything about this instrument.
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Indeed - this is tragic and shocking news, particularly for his family.
As others have said, he was a superb musician and a gentleman.
In paradisum deducant te Angeli;
in tuo adventu suscipiant te martyres,
et perducant te in civitatem sanctam Ierusalem.
Chorus angelorum te suscipiat,
et cum Lazaro quondam paupere
æternam habeas requiem.
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The organist, Heathcote Statham, was playing, and only became aware that his organ was on fire when a lay-clerk appeared in the organ loft with an extinguisher. According to Gordon Paget (not, it must be admitted, the most reliable of sources, although he was on the spot at that period), quite a lot of the old organ survived, although the photographs after the fire suggest a complete wreck.
It's worth mentioning, in the context of other threads, that the present Norwich organ is doing well on most of its original mechanism, despite the passage of seventy or so years.
Indeed. I spent a week-end playing it for a visiting choir, about three summers ago. I thought that it was wonderful - with the exception of two stops on the Solo Organ. Really good choruses, a wealth of beautiful quieter registers and a majestic tutti - and some of the friendliest, most helpful cathedral staff whom I have ever met.
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Is this the pipe organ? Is it just me or is that a most curious choice of stops for the fugue?
It is indeed the Nicholson rebuild of the T.C. Lewis / H&H pipe organ. It is clear from this that all is not well with this instrument.
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With new (and fairly substantial) two-manual instruments still being built with (in my view) the very limiting provision of Open Diapason and Stopped Diapason as the only Great unison flues I would personally be glad of a Salicional-type stop as a third 8ft register. I'm sure that the stop as proposed here will prove its worth, both on its own terms and as an effective colouring timbre to the companion 8fts - not to mention some less orthodox combinations I'm sure....
Indeed. it will be interesting to see how it works as an accompanimental instrument.I would also agree with David Drinkell that it needs a greater choice of reed-tone in the Swell.
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Sorry pcnd5584, if you re-read my FB reply to your question about Llandaff Swell you will find that I said both sections were in the same expression box. The Swell had only one pedal to work the shutters. G.
I have now read this, Guy - thank you. I had not realised that they were in the same box from your first post; I had read it as one box on top of another.
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Did we mention Christ's Hospital earlier? It certainly still has 5 manuals. not quite up there with Holy Rude, Stirling, but a fine organ all the same. It was at one time fashionable to compare it unfavourably with the old Hill in Big School. Personally, I liked the Rushworth and didn't care for the Hill, but I am not a great Hill fan (with certain very notable exceptions). They have a Father Willis Model Organ as well, and used to have a Casson rebuilt all neo-classical by Nick Plomley.
Possibly - I did not have time last night to read through four pages of posts. Next time I shall try to ensure that I do so....
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I was simply regretting that he no longer posts here, Monsieur. As far as I know he is still out there.
Ah, good. Indeed.
He does (or did) post on Organographia - in French and German - and I believe that he is a board administrator.
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Bearing in mind the young non-organ-playing enthusiast who has initiated the petition, I am bound to treat his campaign with dispassionate caution.
Indeed.
Since the same source informed me categorically a couple of years ago that there was 'virtually no chance' of the organ in Christ Church, Spitalfields being restored and replaced in the church (and the opening recital on this rehabilitated instrument was given a week or so ago, by John Scott), I would also suggest treating this 'information' with caution.
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As, indeed, our late, departed member Pierre Lauwers was fond of reminding us (amongst other useful things).
Late, departed - as in no longer a member, or something more permanent, Vox?
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If I recall correctly, the Swell box was very large and split on two levels. I think the secondary ranks were on the lower level. ...
Guy Russell has just confirmed the location of the two expression boxes for the Primary Swell and Secondary Swell organs, which is as you state. However, I forgot to ask which was on top.
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Gosh, yes! I'd forgotten about that one. Radley had a Precentor, the Revd. William Singleton, who served for a vast number of years and kept persuading the authorities to add bits to the organ. There's a picture in "The Organ" of him sitting at the five-manual console.
East Hagbourne Church has the Choir case.
And not forgetting Christ's Hospital: http://www.npor.org.uk/NPORView.html?RI=N13075
This instrument, as far as I know, still retains its five-clavier console.
I believe that it was here that a thirteen-year-old student, named Ivor Keys, impressed greatly a reviewer for The Organ. The boy was a pupil of C.S. Lang, Director of Music at that time, if I recall correctly.
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This reminds me of my first visit to the incredible Cathedral at Santiago de Compostela in Spain. Fortuitously, I arrived on 15 August (the Feast of the Assumption) and was thus able to witness the 53kg Botafumeiro being swung, dangerously it seemed, by more than a half-dozen burly men.
The full organ was being played, in what might be kindly described as 'Reminiscences of Bach's Toccata in D minor' !
The Almudena organ is by Grenzing, large, with two cases behind the player for the split Cadereta.
I once played this instrument for a Mass (and for a visiting choir). I was pleasantly surprised; it was pretty well in tune and the reeds were quite sociable - they sounded as much like good Wm. Hill reeds, as anything else. Certainly nothing like our supposed 'Spanish' Trumpet here....
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'Agree with much of the above - does anyone know where Clutton's little Mander house organ ended up?
A
In one of the downstairs rooms at the Choir School of King's College, Cambridge - complete with Clutton's handwritten instructions and rationale. Personally, I thought that it was in a bad state (perhaps through being moved). Neither did I particularly care for the sound.
I took some pictures of it which I might try to find.
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... And Hexham used to have a fiver.
Although I think that Hexham was played from a four-clavier console, with a 'floating' Echo Organ.
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Just a thought......what about a 1' ? Not as much moving around of pipes - you wouldn't get your 2-2/3 but maybe some glitter if it were quietened down a bit. Depends on the scale though.
As a matter of interest was it always a 1-1/3 or was this an alteration at some point?
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A splendid idea, Alastair. As you say, a little less colour - but more sparkle (if the voicing and scaling - and metal - are right). The Larigot (on the Positive), is one of our six mutations which is rarely used, here.
We also have a fairly pointless stop on the Minster organ: the G.O. Sesquialtera II (12-17). If it had been scaled and voiced in the North German manner, it would be a useful solo voice (in combination, naturally), and a piquant voice for special effects. However, it is far too quiet and slightly flute-like in intonation - which is, apparently, exactly what David Blott wanted - though goodness knows why. The wide-scaled Positive mutations do this job far better - and it is fairly pointless as an echo Sesquialtera.
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I don't think Pcnd5584 is that old!
I can't comment on St Paul's specifically, but by the time he mentions things were already changing. I am open to correction, but I think the change to using conductors, at first occasionally and then regularly, began gradually around the end of the 60s.No - he is not. (Cheers, Vox!)
However, he was taught (as a teenager) by Dr. Harry Gabb, CVO (several years after Dr. Gabb had retired), for a while and heard a number of anecdotes first-hand.
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Robert Fielding (who was my organ teacher when I started out) spent quite a few years there and I didn't realise he had gone. Has he retired, or simply gone elsewhere? And when did he finish?
Dave
As far as I know, he is still in-post, until the end of term. I believe that he is moving into property developing. (He has also run a wedding car hire firm for a number of years.)
George Richford was formerly Director of Music at Saint Mary's, Newark, Notts.
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Getting back to the point somewhat - how about this for a useless collection of stops:
Manual: Open Diapason 8, Dulciana 8, Flute 4
Pedal: Bourdon
Twillingate Anglican Church, Newfoundland. Norman & Beard, so a classy piece of work, compared to the worthy but workaday Bevingtons, Cassons and Forster & Andrewses which were ordered from catalogues and are more usually found in small communities here (although most don't have pipe organs at all). However, the Open is too big for the Flute to have much of an effect apart from thickening it slightly, and the Dulciana is too quiet to support the Flute.
There is a similar problem on a slightly larger instrument near here. It does have a Swell Organ, but several years ago, a local organ builder removed a perfectly good Stopped Diapason (as far as I can recall) on the G.O., leaving it with either a large-ish Open Diapason or a weedy Dulciana - which was utterly impractical and somewhat irritating.
I have never understood some organ builders' love affair with the Dulciana - they are often very quiet and fairly useless - particularly on a small to moderate sized two-clavier instrument.
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I can't pretend that hadn't occurred to me as well...
I had the same thought - particularly when considering what has been done to it.
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AJJ: It wouldn't be the first time that Fisk proposed something which looked startling but, in the end, worked out. I guess we shall have to wait and see.
pcnd: You mentioned the old organ at Llandaff. I thought the Secondary Swell was in the same box as the rest of the Swell, not separately enclosed within it. The stops were only separated so that they could be transferred to the bottom manual as a small Choir Organ. I'd be interested to know if that was the case.
As far as I know, there was a secondary enclosure - but I will check (I shall ask Guy Russell, he would know).
I can't comment on St Paul's specifically, but by the time he mentions things were already changing. I am open to correction, but I think the change to using conductors, at first occasionally and then regularly, began gradually around the end of the 60s.
Specification Enhancement
in Nuts and bolts
Posted
Re-instating an Oboe or Hautboy is indeed a very good idea - this stop, if well voiced, is one of the most useful registers in a Swell Organ.
Again, a separate G.O. Mixture will be useful, although care should be taken when planning the breaks and the scale will of course need to take into account the size and acoustic ambiance of the building. It also depends on what is meant by a Hill-style stop. He did occasionally place a IV-rank Mixture (19-22-26-29)* at the top of his G.O. choruses, although there are also examples of three-rank mixtures, which commence at 17-19-22 (but with the tierce rank dropping out around C13, or G20 or so), and the rest of the mixture being composed of quints and unisons. Clearly in a scheme of this size, splitting the compound stop as III (15-19-22) and II (26-29) - as was also done occasionally - would be unnecessary. Remember that the Larigot is extended from the twelfth, so whilst one could re-engrave the stop-key, the pipes would require a new chest. Depending on the composition and effect of the Swell compound stop, a G.O. Mixture could usefully start at 15-19-22 - or perhaps even 22-26-29. I dislike a 19-22-26 composition, partly because of the uncovered quint rank.
I can see no harm in the Pedal Dulcet remaining - it depends on how it is voiced. If it is a little stronger than its name might otherwise suggest, it could be helpful in providing clarity and a little brightness to the Pedal Organ. It could also be more useful than the usual, anaemic 4ft. flue extension of the Bourdon rank. I would not bother with the 32ft. Harmonic Bass. Perhaps the best compromise (without having a Polyphone made - Nicholson's have done one or two), is to have the Pedal Bourdon connected at 16ft pitch to the middle C of the Pedal-board, with the bottom octave quinted on itself. However, depending on the acoustic properties of the church, this may not be worth the fuss.
With regard to the Pedal 16ft. reed (which is borrowed from the Swell reed unit); I wonder what the scaling of this is like. This can be an difficult thing to get right - in fact, a good compromise is probably a better way of expressing it. It has probably been scaled with a view to providing the most appropriate scale (and voicing) for the 8ft. pitch - which probably means that the 16ft. and 4ft. pitches are compromised with regard to their scaling, and the bass is likely to be smaller in scale than is desirable for a Pedal reed. It would be helpful to have some description of the aural effect of this rank (including the relative volume to the rest of the Swell chorus).
David and Colin both suggest retaining the services of a good consultant - which is sensible (although there have been a few occasions when the end result would have been better without the services of the person engaged; a few instances spring to mind which, for obvious reasons, I shall not detail here). However, generally, this is likely to be beneficial. Again, William McVicker is extremely knowledgeable and experienced.
Other than this, for an extension scheme, what you already have is quite sensible.
It would also be worth getting prospective organ builders to check that the blower and wind system will be adequate for any planned additions. It would also be advisable to ascertain the wind pressures for each rank/chest before beginning work. (This was overlooked at a church in this locality a few years ago - with unfortunate results.)
* Although Lichfield Cathedral (a rather larger instrument, it is true) has 15-19-22-26 as the starting composition of the G.O. IV-rank Mixture.