pcnd5584
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Posts posted by pcnd5584
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Overall, some of the new jobs look fabulous - Merton College, Oxford and St. George's, Hanover Square (apart from the damn silly console). I bet they sound just as good, too.
I was only ever in Buckfast Abbey once and I never heard the organ. From reports, it seemed to be very much an individual so I guess it's sad if it has just been tipped out.
Hanover Square console - absolutely. What was the point? (Some of it looks plastic.)
Buckfast - I played it once or twice. It was quite an exciting sound in the reverberant acoustics of the abbey. It also had a number of beautiful quiet stops. It was known (amongst some locals) as 'the clarinet organ' - since it had one on the Pedal - but in three pitches (from the Swell), another on the Choir and the afore-mentioned one in the Swell, available in two pitches.
However, in the abbey, it made a good sound - and also recorded quite well. (David M. Patrick's LP of Duruflé's Suite, Op. 5, came over crystal clear - and not at all stringy or weak.)
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If anyone is looking for an original never-restored 4-manual Harrison and Harrison from the first decade of the twentieth century, what about St Mary's, Stafford?
I note that, on paper, it is virtually identical to several other four-clavier vintage Harrisons - except, perhaps for the Choir Gross Geigen and the Pedal Saxophone (which is almost certainly the Solo Corno di Bassetto borrowed down to the Pedal Organ). Does anyone know how playable it is at present?
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... I find the whole piece infuriating since my natural inclination is to play the dotted sections like a French overture, over-dotting the dots and detaching almost everything, yet Bach clearly didn't want detached playing. ...
I wonder if he had in mind a dry acoustic (and therefore a particular building and instrument) in mind; this might account for the apparently unnatural articulation.
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This reminds me of a tour to Thuringia with the Bradford Choristers about 15 years ago, when the dates included a lunchtime concert in the Georgenkirche, Eisenach (as well as the fabulous Trost-Orgel in Walterhausen). The repertoire was proudly English, and our performance in Eisenach 'kicked off' with RVW's 'Antiphon' (Let all the world) from the Five Mystical Songs. With Francis Jackson's helpful organ arrangement in my case, what could go wrong?
Well, there was a bomb scare, and we ended up with either little or no time to rehearse, at least there was insufficient to get my feet underneath the claviers. With unfamilar registration aids, I chose a set up that allowed me to terrace the dynamics from one manual to the other, with a little assistance from the Schwellwerk, and the registration changes limited thereafter to pedal couplers and the bigger stops on the Positiv and Hauptwerk.
I was all set for the off with the swell pedal firmly pushed down when Dicky gave the signal: an amazing rasping sound of the untamed swell reeds & mixtures hit me square between the eyes. I assumed that my proximity to the organ was the cause. Not so! As the introduction built towards the climatic entry of the choir, I duly easy the swell pedal forward, in and amongst additional pedal ostinato quavers. The result was not as expected: the action of moving the swell pedal forward served to close the swell box...!!!
That was an interesting concert - telling yourself to do the opposite with the swell pedal from what you were normally used to doing! Starting Stanford in C with the box 'open'....
That is really odd. I wonder why an organ builder would do that? Presumably all the motorised vehicles in this part of the country do not have their accelerators arranged in a similar fashoin?
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I used to have organ lessons here many years ago. The swell pedals took a bit of getting used to and I never could never really see the point of them as opposed to balanced ones. It always seemed a bit of the case of 'you love them or....'
A
Indeed. The Marmite of the organ world.
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This photo of the Salisbury Cathedral Willis demonstrates what I meant. I have no idea from this how the pedalboard aligns with the manuals; it doesn't look like it's either on the Es or the Ds, but it's hard to tell. But the right-hand swell pedal is nevertheless over the middle E and F. For what it's worth, Audsley, in The Art of Organ Building quotes a chamber organ scheme of W. T. Best's, where the Great is "Inclosed in a swell: the pedal of which must be in the center of the pedal-board, above the 'E and F' keys." I suppose it makes sense to place it where the careless heel is less likely to catch one of the sharps.
Having played this instrument on many occasions, I can state that this console is quite comfortable in every respect. Even the combination pedals are easy to find. I have never had any trouble locating the Swell (or Solo) expression pedal - although I am glad that they replaced the HWIII 'Infinite speed and gradation' mechanism. (I am sure that, if he sees this post, David Drinkell will write that he likes this - but I encountered it on one instrument and preferred conventional balanced pedals.)
I am also glad that H&H have gradually removed all of the ebony finish on the jambs, key-slips and key-cheeks. This loft is not particularly well-lit, and it used to be a bit like playing inside a bag.
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The Foghorn suffers from this problem (and it has three swell pedals), but I think the problem there is that the Choir manual is set too low. That wasn't the only problem with that console. When it first arrived the stop jambs were so far away from the manual ends that the assistant organist complained that one needed the arms of a gibbon to reach the stops. Rushworth & Dreaper did eventually improve this problem, but very reluctantly and not without a lot of argument.
I can't help with the angle question, but, as to swell pedals not being central, isn't it usual to have them offset very slightly to the right? IANAOB, but I did check out some photos, from which it seems that, when there are only one or two swell pedals, it is fairly usual to align the right-hand edge of the right-hand swell pedal with the left-hand edge of the middle F sharp so that the pedal itself is over the E and F. This position certainly feels comfortable to me, while still allowing operation with either foot. When there are three swell pedals I think it is the practice now to place the middle one in the afore-mentioned position, but I stand to be corrected.
The most ergonomic and comfortable consoles I have ever played are Harrison and Harrison ones of the 1960s, such as Coventry Cathedral, St George's, Windsor and a couple of others. Stops easy to see and reach, all manuals at a very comfortable height, piston placing perfect, pedalboard recess and positioning perfect - and of course the swell pedals. However, I seem to remember reading on here that H&H have lost the measurements. A shame if so.
Absolutely, Vox. The two instruments which you list above also possess the most comfortable pedal-boards which I have ever played - ours here is awful. UI suspect that there is a layout error somewhere in the middle of the board.
With regard to H&H losing their console dimensions - I understand that the new console at Saint David's Cathedral, Pembrokeshire looks right - but feels wrong. However, I would be interested to learn if anyone has played Cirencester Parish Church, or Saint Edmundsbury Cathedral - and whether these consoles feel like older H&H models.
Regarding the foghorn: by the time that I first played this behemoth (late 1970s), the console felt reasonably comfortable - which was more than could be said for my ears, when JB was demonstrating it....
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Found 2 pics, it wont let me link to them, so they are here www.cocopopsdog.com/images/wisbech.jpg
The 2nd pic is of the Choir Dept
Matty
Thank you for these.
It certainly looks better, now.
I wonder how many Harrison organs were left with no proper case - just a row of 16ft. Geigen pipes, with dark-stained plywood over the building-frame below impost level? (They even did something similar at Westminster Abbey for several years.)
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You don't need sixties mutations for that. We have an annual Blessing of the Animals Service and I've worked out exactly what combinations make the dogs howl
We have one of these, too.
We have also experienced a perhaps even more spectacular display of canine behaviour. A couple of years ago, the service had just started, when the door opened again, to admit a little old lady and her (female) poodle, who then proceeded up the aisle. The church fell silent as about twelve (male) dogs all turned, their eyes fixed on this vision of loveliness, while pints of drool formed puddles on the stone floor . The silence continued for a few seconds, then chaos ensued as twelve dogs simultaneously attempted to drag their owners across other members of the congregation, in order to um, 'make themselves known' to the new arrival.
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There are computer based transmission systems where the only cable between the console and organ proper is a simple CAT-5 or 6 Ethernet cable so in theory there would be no reason why the ethernet cable could be replaced with a wireless link using two wireless routers.
.... And presumably, if the software to run the instrument were to be provided by a certain well-known company, a small screen would be needed, in order to display dialogue boxes such as:
'Are you sure you want the Full Organ to deploy?'
and
'Windows has just shut down the blowers in order to prevent damage to your system.'
or perhaps
'You have just performed an illegal operation - push in the Tuba.'
or even
'No network service available. Please switch off your system and purchase copies of Gray, in F minor.'
On the plus side, I suppose one could install anti-virus software, in order to search and destroy tierce and flat twenty-first ranks in the mixtures....
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... I remember visiting Walkers' works at Brandon in 1977 and seeing pipework from Bradford awaiting attention. They made some modifications to it at that time, mainly taking the sting out of the mixtures, if I remember rightly. ...
I am amazed that anyone was doing this as early as 1977. This was still the era of mutations which were capable of upsetting the local dog population and mixtures which sounded like glass being deposited in a bottle bank.
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I'm very pleased to hear it (or will be, hopefully!). I have always regarded the replacement of a perfectly good pipe organ in the nave by an electronic substitute as a mistake. As I understand it, the objection at the time was that the presence of a 'box on stilts' got in the way of the view! I, too, would be interested to hear where the new division will end up and, for that matter, what its composition will be. I don't think there are many suitable places for it, actually.
I also agree about the lack of a double on the Great, although there is on the Swell of course. As I understand it, there isn't really much available space in the organ chamber, certainly for a 16' stop.
I was thinking more of the lack of flue doubles; providing that it is not a badly voiced Bourdon, with an indistinct bass and a muddy treble, a good flue double on the Swell Organ can be invaluable, particularly when accompanying Psalms.
As far as the G.O. is concerned, it should be possible to provide something. Is the bass octave of the Pedal Open Metal any use for the lowest twelve notes (in order to save space), or is the scale too big? If not this, what about the Violone - or is this a wooden rank?
It does seem odd that there are four chorus reeds on the G.O. (albeit with one stop being an extension), but no sub-unison tone of any kind.
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Not sure why the OP should post the title "Goodbye Kings".
If taken in this vein there have been several "Goodbyes", and probably several "Hellos", if you look at the NPOR entry for this instrument.
Certainly one significant 'revision' was the work conducted in 1968, under the auspices of Sir David Willcocks. Apart from a couple of deletions and additions, the significant 'brightening' of the fluework, (perhaps in the spirit of the times), provided one possible "Goodbye" for some, but for me has always been regarded as a welcome "Hello". Conversely the dumbing down of the fluework in the 1992 work was for me most unwelcome. The 17th in the Sesquialtera and the Quints in the IV rank Great mixture came in for particularly brutal treatment. Recordings pre- and post-1992 stand testament to this.
Indeed. I also regret this. A similar dumbing-down of the upper-work took place at Exeter Cathedral in 2000 and again more recently. I have an idea where this trend comes from with the firm in question.
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Hi Jonathan
Hope you are well...
Congratulations so far...
However....a Nave division? Wasn't one there before?
Best wishes
Richard
Yes - there was - replete with a 'Purcell Trumpet' and an undulating rank, (And a controversial four-faced case, by Sir Edward Maufe.) This was, I believe, later replaced by some kind of electronic division, I believe - which had an almost identical stop-list to the old pipe section.
Out of interest, what happened to the pipe-work from the old Nave organ? and will the new department be sited in a similar position?
However, it is good to hear the news of the console and electrical upgrade.
On paper, the scheme of the main organ looks to be reasonably sensible (save for the lack of sub-unison tone on the G.O. and a Solo Organ which does not know what it wants to be) - is it as useful in practice? Also, are there any photographs of the upgraded console which are available, please?
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I went to the opening recital at Lord Mayor's Chapel in Bristol at the end of last year, David Saint played and it all sounded and seemed to perform fine. Apparently wifi functins on a frequency unlikely to be inhabited by any other interference etc. for an ammount of time that would not cause worry. The only thing I wondered was why they needed wifi, the console is not mobile and as far as I know it is where it had been before the recent work. I could have understood more if it had been able to wander a bit!
A
I agree.
I cannot help but wonder whether it is not rather like the situation which obtained at Nôtre-Dame de Paris, after the 1990-92 rebuild (when the organ was controlled by computer, using Hall-type sensors and a load of software from Synaptel). It broke down - frequently (and often spectacularly and inconveniently). I should have thought that a good quality electro-pneumatic action would have been infinitely preferable.
Given that I have yet to experience a faultless wi-fi connection for domestic computer equipment (and when I am not trying to play complex organ music in public), I remain skeptical, both of the perceived need for such a system and also of its supposed reliability.
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I think his point, with regard to qualifications, was that he claimed to be the only cathedral organist with a Doctorate in Music by examination. This was included in his biographical notes for the Essex Man Organ Gala held at St. Paul's in 1993 in aid of the Chelmsford Cathedral Music Foundation.
He certainly mentioned this as well - although he also assured us of the former on a few occasions, citing his ADCM as 'proof'.
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Whilst salaries of UK cathedral organists are of fairly widespread knowledge, those of their French counterparts seem to remain a mystery. I am yet to discover what kind of remuneration an applicant can expect in the case of positions such as this.
VA
Probably rather low by comparison with English cathedral organists - although, as has been suggested, the work-load is also rather less than would be expected in an English cathedral. For one thing, it is extremely unlikely that ant French titulaire would ever have to take a choir practice, conduct a choir - or, in fact, have anything to do with a choir - unless they chose to run their own choir which simply happened to rehearse in the church at which they were titulaire.
Cochereau used to claim that the salary he received from Nôtre-Dame de Paris kept him supplied with Gauloises - but not much else. As far as I understand it, the kudos of being able to put 'Organiste Titulaire, Nôtre0Dame de Paris' (or similar) on one's business card, is considered almost to be sufficient reward in itself. It is generally expected that titulaires of cathedrals, abbeys or other large churches will also have teaching careers, or - like Cochereau - actually hold the post of director of a prestigious conservatoire de musique.
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I haven't read the book and so may be missing the context, but might the "country" in question be Wales rather than the UK?
I considered this point, too. However, he appears to be so arrogant (in some respects) - and given that there are only five other Anglican cathedrals in Wales - that I believe he may have meant England as well; not least because in a similar context, he cites the qualifications of the organists at three or four English cathedrals. In addition, he rarely seems to speak of the situation in Wales, but rather compares Llandaff (and himself) with many other English cathedrals and organists at several points throughout the book.
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Oops - please excuse the typo! Geoffrey Marshall currently shares duties with Jean-René André and I believe also two other organists. Usually on a Sunday one plays the west end instrument and the other the choir organ behind the high altar. They also have a seemingly healthy choral set up there too. I was lucky enough to spend some time looking at the organs there last summer.
A
Ah - I had understood incorrectly that he was sole Titulaire. Thank you for this, Alastair.
I would be interested to hear more of the choir - and your impressions of the organs in the cathedral, please.
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Geoffrey Marahall is from the UK and one of the organists at Rennes Cathedral.
A
Geoffrey Marshall - to be strictly accurate.
As far as I know, he is (or at least was) the Titulaire of the Grandes Orgues.
As David and handsoff imply, it is a rather different skill set which is required for such a post. I am interested to note the absence of certain French names which I might have expected to be considered, though.
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Just a reminder, if one is needed, that Arthur Wills can be heard playing his own and French music at Ely on one of the Great Cathedral Organ series, now happily available on CD.
Ian
Indeed.
This is an interesting sound document, since it is a record of the instrument as it sounded between 1958 and 1975.
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So that will leave Durham as the only remotely recognisable Arthur Harrison cathedral organ
Are you able to impart more information, please? I had heard that this instrument was due for further work, but understood that it was largely restoration, the tonal scheme being left almost entirely as it stands currently. Is this in fact not the case?
It is worth remembering that there are a few other instruments of this vintage (or largely restored to their original schemes and voicing):
Leicester Cathedral - restored, H&H 2003. Although the G.O. is still without its trademark 'Harmonics', the family of Tromba ranks was re-created at the last rebuild, along with the re-instatement of two or three of the old Choir Organ ranks. (In the case of the latter, they were, as far as I know, supplied with new pipe-work. I do not think that Leicester Cathedral was as cautious as Saint David's Cathedral, Pembrokeshire, with regard to the storing of old pipe-work in part of the old Deanery.)
Saint Mary Redcliffe, Bristol - H&H, 1912. Alterations and restoration in 1932, 1947, 1974, 1990 and 2010. Despite the perhaps worryingly long list of subsequent work, at the latest restoration (by the original firm), this instrument has regained virtually all of its original tonal characteristics. (However, the 1947 work largely involved re-creating the entire Swell Organ and the Pedal 32ft. and 16ft. Trombone rank, after a disastrous fire.) The G.O. has its 'Harmonics' - and a slightly odd five-rank quint Mixture, which has been altered once or twice and now comprises 12-15-19-22-26. Why it was not altered to re-crate Arthur Harrison's standard second Mixture on his larger instruments (15-19-22-26-29), I cannot imagine. However, this stop is at least now on the main G.O. sound-board.
All Saint's, Margaret Street, W.1. - restored H&H, 2002. In this case, the G.O. reeds remain as a family of (enclosed) Trumpets, but the 'Harmonics' has been re-instated - at the expense of the 4ft. Principal. There is now only one 4ft. flue rank on the G.O. (Personally, I regard this as a retrograde step; particularly since the G.O. reeds are musical and useful - and definitely not of Tromba tone; thus there is not real excuse for re-instating the old compound stop. I was interested to note that, at the first break, the flat twenty-first drops out.)
Temple Church - restored H&H, 2011-13. Despite the new additions to the G.O. (Principal, Fifteenth and Seventeenth), this instrument is arguably closer to its original state*, as left by Arthur Harrison, than either Durham Cathedral or Kings, Cambridge. However, Temple Church is also still without its 'Harmonics' - the 19-22-26-29 Mixture, installed in 2000' remains in situ.
Ripon Cathedral - restored H&H 1963-64 (but with alterations in 1972 and 1987). Although the Choir, Great and Swell organs still contain vestiges of the former Lewis instrument, these are, in some cases, only now recogniseable in the stop names. I have played this organ on several occasions and Arthur Harrison's 'voice' is clearly to be heard, not least in the Pedal and Solo organs - and in the full G.O., which still has its family of very powerful Tromba ranks. I had thought that there were, in addition, some more recent tonal alterations - notably to the Choir Organ. However, the most recent scheme I have been able to find is this: https://app.box.com/s/mfjajzx3chg5127s76kc - there appears to be no further alteration to the stop-list.
Although once again, this organ is without the standard Arthur Harrison 'Harmonics', in fact the original Lewis quint Mixture (19-22-26-29) had been altered by Arthur Harrison, back as long ago as 1926, when the breaks were re-arranged, in order to make the overall pitch lower.
Halifax Parish Church - H&H, 1929; renovated by J.W. Walker, 1968, 1979. As far as I am aware, the only tonal alteration to this instrument was the removal of the G.O. 'Harmonics' and its replacement (somewhat oddly) by what may be either a two- or three-rank quint Mixture: either 19-22 or 19-22-26 respectively†. Why they did not simply replace it with a standard 19-22-26-29 four-rank Mixture, I cannot imagine; I doubt that the cost would have been much greater.
Crediton Parish Church - H&H, 1921. Restored, Michael Farley, 2001. Aside from the extension of the Pedal Ophicleide to the 32ft. octave (with twelve half-length resonators) and the extension of the G.O. Double Geigen to 8ft. pitch - and a new action and combination system, this instrument remains tonally as originally finished by Arthur Harrison. It even still possesses its G.O. 'Harmonics'.
I realise that most of these buildings are not cathedrals (neither is King's, Cambridge, for that matter). However, in most cases, the instruments are of cathedral size and retain much of their original tonal characteristics and overall design. With regard to the organ in the church of Saint Mary Redcliffe, Bristol, this building has a cathedral-like acoustic ambiance and is thus perhaps the most truly representative of Arthur Harrison's style. (The fact that I dislike all of the chorus reeds and the large Open Diapason stops on the Pedal Organ and G.O., is neither here nor there, for the purposes of this post.)
* I have not forgotten that virtually the entire instrument was tonally re-balanced in 1957, at its installation. However, as far as I am aware, the original voicing was respected. It had been built originally for a chamber in Lord Glentanar's Ballroom, and it was found necessary to reduce the power of the instrument, once it was heard in the rather more agreeable acoustic ambiance of Temple Church.
† The NPOR is a little hazy on the details at this point.
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I know this hasn't anything to do with our host's website, but is anyone having trouble with the organ matters website? I can log in, but it won't let me post, despite answering all the verification questions correctly. I may be a Luddite but I know I'm not that inept :-/
I am one of the administrators for this site. If you have any further problems, please let me know.
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... I don't think Ely has lost the ability to keep a full cathedral going, but it has become a good deal more versatile and better-balanced.
Oh good. Thank you, David.
I must admit that, on the strength of one of the Regent CDs (I realise that this can be quite unlike the actual sound and effect of an instrument in a particular building), I actually quite liked the 'restored' sound of the Ely organ. I thought that I would hate it, but the revoiced reeds do integrate better with the flue-work. (This was one of the concerns which I always had with larger schemes by Ralph Downes - I was never convinced by the superimposition of quasi-French style chorus reeds on to what was a basically Anglo-Dutch (not German) chorus. They always sounded gritty and rather stood apart. Neither could I fathom why Downes failed to observe that all the French reeds which he liked so much were speaking into vast, resonant stone buildings and that in the arid acoustic ambiance of the RFH they were likely to sound rather different. Given that, right from the earliest planning stages of the hall, the acoustics were intended to be dry, surely it was not beyond the wit of someone to conclude that a different style of chorus reed might be required, in order to counteract the deadening - and thinning- properties of the hall's acoustic.)
Anyway, to return to Ely Cathedral: The 2001 scheme seems to have made sensible changes - although I should have preferred a quiet 16ft. Bassoon on the Swell, instead of the Echo Cornet; this [bassoon] I would find of great use in choral accompaniment. Perhaps the only other thing which I would change would be the G.O. Quint (5 1/3). There are already two contrasting sub-unison ranks (and a 32ft. Sub Bourdon), to say nothing of two Open Diapason stops, a Hohl Flute and a Salicional. Here, I should prefer a Rohr Flute 8ft., since the Hohl Flute is likely to be rather large - although I note that it was revoiced in 1962, at the instigation of Dr. Arthur Wills.
One thing which I had not realised before, was that the G.O. reeds were entirely new in 2001 (a new soundboard was also constructed, since the old one was too small to accommodate the new pipe-work). I had previously thought that only the tongues, shallots and perhaps the blocks had been either replaced or modified.
I hope that the mixtures have not been altered too much; I think that there has been an unfortunate tendency to remove too much upper-work over the last twenty years or so. A building the size of Ely Cathedral needs one or two really bright mixtures - including in the treble regions, in order to make some impact. If all that is left above C37 is simply a smaller-scaled version of G.O. to fifteenth, then the choruses are likely to be rather lacking in excitement. A case in point is Exeter Cathedral. Prior to its latest rebuild, it had already been shorn of some of its upper-work; now, once again, apparently this has been altered - to its detriment. The G.O. Mixture (19-22-26-29) was, in any case, never very successful; it did not really supply either brilliance or clarity - it just sounded 'quinty'.
Buckfast Abbey
in The Organ
Posted
Indeed. (Particularly with regard to the G.O. reeds.)
In fact, there was a space for one further stop-key on the G.O. (between the mixtures and the reeds, if I recall correctly). I once asked the then organist Dom Sebastian Wolff, OSB, what it was for and he replied "Oh, a spare slide - if anyone had any ideas." I suggested a decent 16ft. chorus reed might be a good idea. However, I have no idea exactly how much room was available in the case, nor even on what soundboard (flues or reeds) the spare slide was situated.
I