pcnd5584
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Posts posted by pcnd5584
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Hunden min kan bare bjeffe i norsk
Okay, I am going to take a guess at: "Look at me - I can bark in Norwegian."
But what does it actually mean?
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On the other hand, as a student I resided for a time with a girl from Hong Kong, a pianist, who was quite adamant that personal feeling had no place at all in performance. Every graduation in dynamics, every subtle rubato, every nuance of expression - everything had to be calculated clinically and without feeling so that every performance could be guaranteed to be identical. An oddly soulless view, I thought.
Tell me about it.
I have a number of Hong Kong Chinese pupils, mostly studying the higher grade ABRSM pieces.
There is an additional problem: for the most part, they have been taught to play anything which has semiquaver notation very quickly (regardless of whether or not their keyboard technique is sufficiently well-developed - and let alone whether or not this speed is stylistically appropriate for the pieces in question). This causes immense problems in Bach fugues, for example. However, I have also realised that, nine times out of ten, they have not really been taught to play scales and arpeggios correctly - sometimes only scant attention has been paid to these by their former teachers in Hong Kong. I also have to try to persuade them not to listen to the CDs which usually come with the copies of the grade examination books which they purchase. Otherwise, they hear someone like Joanna MacGregor playing through the pieces, generally rather quickly, and are then convinced that they have to play the chosen pieces exactly like this, in order even to pass the examination.
We had an examiner at school recently who had undertaken examining tours of the Far East and had expressed concern about both the quality and style of much of the teaching there.
As Vox observes, with some pupils, it has been necessary to spend a fair proportion of some lessons playing the pieces myself, in order to attempt to give the students a rather different reference-point for their own performances. Debussy is a particular nightmare. Attempting to instill a sense of rubato and overall elasticity, as it were, is often like trying to teach a dog to speak Norwegian.
However, over the last few years, I have had some success in these areas. However, I had to speak quite sternly at least two students at the end of term and try to persuade them not to have lessons in Hong Kong over the summer. Otherwise I can virtually guarantee that everything which I have achieved over the last academic year will be thrown to the winds by some crazy middle-aged spinster who will want her pupils to play everything at express speeds - and usually with a strong forte touch throughout.
Gah.
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I know Malcolm takes his teaching very seriously, so I am probably being impertinent in taking issue, but I would say not so much "what", but "how". I know that everyone is individual in the way they learn and respond to teaching, but I have never been convinced by teachers who impose their interpretations on their pupils. It may work for some, but it never did for me. Fortunately I was never subjected to it very much. Far better, in my book, to develop the pupil's ability to respond to the music in his/her way. You must certainly suggest ways in which the pupil may (or ought to) feel a passage, but if the pupil can't feel that expression personally from within you are flogging a dead horse.
A good point, Vox.
I believe that Ralph Downes encouraged his pupils to take lessons from other teaches. He would tell them "I am only one side of the coin, you know."
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There is a picture of the console on our website here:
http://www.tickell-organs.co.uk/specinfo/opus65.htm
.... It would be interesting to know if there is any consensus on whether players like toggle-touch or not on electric action instruments.Kenneth Tickell
Speaking personally, I do not - neither do I like it on draw-stop solenoids (although I understand that units without toggle-touch are considerably more expensive).
I have not played the new organ - only the former instrument. However, from the appearance of the pedal sweep on the photograph, the G.O. to Pedal reversible piston is where I should expect to find it.
For the record, my preference is also for dark-coloured jamb panels, which give a greater contrast when reading the stop-heads, particularly under certain lighting conditions. They do not need to be ebonised - my 'own' church instrument has jamb panels of rosewood (as are also the key-cheeks and key-slips). They look elegant and I find the contrast which they provide to be more practical.
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Vox - many thanks for the suggestions. I shall examine them in more detail over the next couple of days.
Tony - thanks also - PM sent.
SL - I admire the sentiment, but I don't think this would work in practical terms at our place, given the amount and type of music in the Maundy Thursday/Good Friday services (you can't sing a congregational mass without accompaniment, and the vicar certainly wouldn't approve of unaccompanied hymns). I do tone it down somewhat (eg this year - no solo reed in Lent apart from Weddings and Stainer's Crucifixion where marked in the score) and there is always suitable improvisation before the Gloria at the Vigil Mass. I'm loathed to ask our volunteer choir to work any harder than they do already, what with five services in four days from Thursday to Sunday!
Helpful notes for the congregation - absolutely. It would be a careful boundary between making it seem like notes for a concert, but I think it would most certainly be necessary to include, for example, the texts on which Chorale Preludes are based, or some exposition behind the structure of the Dupre or Messiaen.
Philip - it appears that you improvise.
A couple of years ago, on the Monday of Holy Week, we had a service of music and readings from the Gospels' narratives of the passion. I arranged for two curates to read certain passages (in chronological order) and interspersed these with musical commentaries on the Minster organ, which I improvised. The church was in darkness, except for access lighting near the entrance, the lights on the choir-stalls and the candles on the High Altar.
The lighting and the passages from Holy Scripture (which were read beautifully) created a particularly reverent and reflective atmosphere, which I hope was matched by the music - although, since I sought to portray what had been read, it was not always quiet or reflective, but was (I hope) descriptive.
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...Another tantalising set of fragments is the missing tower caps of the Harris case at Milton Abbey, which were at one time said to be lying around somewhere in the school. It would good to find those and restore the case to its original glory. ...
Clarabella
Really?
I wonder where they are. I had assumed that the late Trevor Doar had acquired them with the rest of the case, but had never seen them. I am due to play for a wedding at the abbey in August. If the school is open, I might see if I can have a look around. The case would certainly benefit from having the caps installed (or is that re-instated, even if they had never been fitted since the case was placed in the abbey?).
I also hope that the 'secret' 32ft. reed will be available. The stop action is (or was) kept locked and, each time I played for the Milton Abbey Festival (as it was), I had to remember to contact Trevor Doar, inform him when I was playing and ask him to leave the stop unlocked.
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The following is at least tenuously connected to this thread:
I recall reading somewhere that there were two branches of ex-pupils who could trace their teachers back to César Franck. Apparently both sides handed-down rather different accounts of how Franck preferred his music to be played. These included widely- diverging metronome speeds, different observance of notes communes, some questions over the veracity of the registration indications and a number of other features.
However, each branch swore that their version of the 'received wisdom' was the correct one.
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I think we'd all like to see more of that. I can remember only ever seeing three TV series about the organ:
Gillian Weir
Howard Goodall
John Scott Whiteley
and radio programmes featuring the organ are very rare these days.
There was one other single broadcast which I recall.
It was probably during Holy Week - and it would have been years ago. It featured Arthur Wills at the organ of Ely Cathedral. (At the time, he was still very much in-post.) He played only one piece: Franck's Troisième Choral. As far as I can recall, it was quite well (and conventionally) played. However, I do recall that, just prior to commencing to play, Arthur Wills (who must have been watching a monitor), nodded clearly. Presumably he had just been given the all-clear to start by a floor manager or producer. Secondly, there was a reed pipe which was slightly out of tune - I think it was either a C or an E. This was somewhat unfortunate, and slightly spoiled my enjoyment of the piece.
As far as I know, I still have this on videotape in a box in the loft somewhere.
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The Chichester Allen was reinstalled at the west end of the cathedral for concert use when the chairs are turned to face west. The console is (or was) repositioned in the triforium on the south side of the west nave - I imagine that the speakers were repositioned as well - well, they must have been as some of them were in the present organ case - others were in the triforium above the south transept and others to the west of the Bishop Bell screen. I don't know if it still used or even if it works but that was certainly what happened after the pipe organ was reinstated.
The Tuba was, indeed, a pretty splendid sound achieved through entering the Orchestral Tuba computer card on all four alterable voices on the swell. These were then 'drawn' together with a tab called Reed Solo which increased their volume many fold. In John Birch's time, this was all set up on General 12 with fairly full choir and great accompaniment but you had to pop the Tuba card in four times after switching on, or you were stuck. I think, actually, that as some sort of failsafe, the swell Cornopean was set to come on on General 12 so that if you forgot to add put the Tuba cards in, at least you got something!
Of all the cards in the drawer, the Orchestral Tuba was pretty much the only one used. There was a Spanish Trumpet which was dabbled with and fun was also had with a Chrysoglot - I think that this was specified in a William Albright Missa Brevis - one of the famous Chichester commissions of the Dean Walter Hussey/John Birch years.
I am always suspicious of these 'alterable voice' devices.
For several years, I played for a colleague's school carol service, for which an electronic substitute was hired. (For the record, it was often not an Allen.) One year, I had time to discover that, if I pulled the Choir 1ft. flute extra hard, drew a pentagram on the ground with chalk and recited the stop-list of any Harrison organ from the 1920s backwards, the 1ft. magically became a powerful and majestic Tuba.
Actually it did nothing of the kind.
The introduction to Hark the Herald (unintentionally played on the stupid 1ft. flute, which refused point-blank to transform into a Tuba), whilst inaudible to anyone over the age of eighteen, did cause my colleague to stop conducting, look over and mouth frantically 'What the hell are you doing?' Since I was as surprised as he was, I simply shrugged and moved up to the next clavier - and played the introduction again.
However, we did encounter several inquisitive dogs outside the Great Hall after the service was over.
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There is also all the pipework in the Transept case at Worcester, I am not sure if any of it will be used if, and when the organ is finally completed.
Probably better not to start some of us on this one again....
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It is used ad nauseum in Chichester diocese and has been almost since it first appeared. The problem is that, like other good settings - and the Thorne is a very good setting for congregational singing - it gets tedious if you have that and nothing else. I think he originally wrote it for Portsmouth cathedral (hence "St Thomas") where he was sub organist.
Malcolm
We used it at the Minster for several weeks last summer - the auxiliary choir sings for the Mass when the Minster Choir is on holiday. I had to play for one or two of them. Whilst it is true that it is appropriate for a congregational type of Mass, I found it a little repetitive - although not to the extent of anything by Karl Jenkins....
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There has been some discussion recently on a German-speaking forum about this piece.
[see http://hauptwerk.seeyoo.net/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=1279.]
Specifically, the question was raised whether a transposed version in C, F or G is available.
Some contributors found this piece almost impossible to play, or listen to, on Lübeck's own organ in Stade, with its original tuning.
Surely he would have written it for that organ? Or am I missing something?
I can add little to the post written by Vox. However, is it perhaps as simple as the contributors' perception of the sound of the piece - and how they approached hearing it? (i.e., from a standpoint of being used to so-called equal temperament tuning, and with a fixed idea - or 'remembrance' - of the present-day pitch of a particular note or key.)
(Since my ability to speak and read German is roughly commensurate with my competence in the field of quantum physics, I am unable to ascertain whether my suggestion is in fact based on a false premise.)
[Did that make any sense at all....?]
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Am I being a tad cynical, or is the Ebay lot possibly a case of someone trying to cash in on an urban myth? If they don't sell, might we see them repackaged as having come from an organ played by Handel?
Or perhaps slept on by Queen Elizabeth I....
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Out of interest, how much of it is Hill now?
Probably some of the pipe-work. The last time I played it, I was rather disappointed with the sound. Since then, it has been rebuilt. Whilst I can find a number of photographs of parts of the new instrument, I have so far been unable to locate a stop-list for the present organ. However, I think that there have been some substantial changes, including a new West End division and the re-siting of the Choir Organ, together with a new console. Does anyone have any further information on this instrument, please?
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I believe much of the Solo is being retained, as well as a significant amount of the Pedal.
Thank you for this, GrossGeigen.
However, whilst this does at least provides some re-assurance, surely there is plenty of material within the G.O. and Swell organs also worthy of retention.
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Goodness, that is a stunningly generous gift! Indeed, it's double the figure that the Cathedral originally had said a new organ could cost in a newsletter a few years ago. What will happen to the existing Harrison - is there much in it that is worth saving? How much of it still works? I heard it many times growing up but never played it, and always had the impression that it was a somewhat untamed monster compared to its more refined peers in Coventry Cathedral and the RFH. With such a generous donation, Manchester will have no excuse not to gain a world-class organ - and I have no doubt that any of our country's finest organ builders could deliver such an instrument.
Possibly so - but is the Harrison organ really that irreparable? Or is this another Worcester? From what I have heard, it sounds as if the intention is to dispose entirely of the existing instrument and start afresh. Whilst the present organ does have a somewhat unusual scheme (I thought that the stop-list immediately prior to its rebuilding at the hands of the Luftwaffe was better and more cohesive), it includes a vast quantity of almost certainly superbly made and voiced pipe-work. (There are, for one thing, two full-length 32ft. ranks - I wonder if these at least will be kept?) I cannot help but wonder if a rather cheaper solution would have been to restore and alter the existing instrument, replacing unused ranks - and those judged to be unsuitable for some reason. Surely it would have been possible to create a fine instrument from the re-use of much of the existing material. In any case, a fair proportion of the present instrument probably dates from 1952-57, since the previous instrument was grievously damaged.
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Two advantages: Less drawstops, less likelihood of overlapping their use.
However, there are also disadvantages: firstly, one has to draw at least two stops for the desired effect. Secondly, it is still possible to overlook the state of a transfer drawstop and get an unwanted effect - or temporarily to 'lose' a stop. Secondly, if the effect is to be achieved using general pistons, then depending on how the action is wired, there might be an undesired sound - albeit for only a fraction of a second. For example, unless it has been changed, the organ of Saint Peter's Church, Bournemouth had this problem. If the Great Posaune, Great Reeds on Choir and suitable accompanimental stops on the Pedal, G.O. and Swell were set on a general piston, one had to remember to lift one's hands from the G.O. keys immediately prior to pressing the general piston, otherwise, the reed would sound for an instant (but nevertheless, clearly audibly), before it was transferred to the lowest clavier.
I would choose separate drawstops every time, both for convenience and safety.
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And for improvisation especially, some solo inclined pedal flues are of great use. Mind you I'm quite glad that the ubiquitous pedal 4' Schalmei (Rohr or otherwise) seems to have become less popular - it always seemed to be an unpleasantly acidic and somewhat useless noise - especially grafted onto older pipework!
A
Ah - I wonder what you will make of our 2ft. Pedal Schalmei - complete with one flue pipe at the top.... (I also wonder if this was yet another pipe which Phil Burbeck 'borrowed' from the Minster organ. Shortly after I arrived, we had to have to entire top octave of the Swell Mixture replaced with new pipes since, as far as we could ascertain, the originals had disappeared into his bungalow near Cranborne, at some point.)
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It's handy to have a variety of high-pitched stops to play about with on the Pedal, giving one the freedom from having to couple down, or at least the option.
Cedric Arnold, Williamson and Hyatt of Thaxted produced some really fine organs in the late sixties and early seventies, of which Little Walsingham Parish Church, Norfolk is quite well-known (http://www.npor.org.uk/NPORView.html?RI=N06436) St. Botolph's, Colchester, was roughly contemporary and the pedal organs were very similar. The recipe was based on three units - open metal, bourdon and reed, with separate quint pipes in the mixture - and some units were available on the manuals also. The St. Botolph's pedal organ reads like this:
Open Bass 16, Sub Bass 16, Principal 8, Bass Flute 8, Fifteenth 4, Chimney Flute 2, Mixture 19.22, Bass Trumpet 16, Trumpet 8, Clarion 4
It really was useful to have that 2' flute. It added point to melodic lines and could top off a modest chorus when the mixture would have been a little too much. It was certainly more use than a 4' flute.
The whole scheme may look odd to modern eyes, and was quite startling at the time, but it is amazingly effective (http://www.npor.org.uk/NPORView.html?RI=N00613). There isn't much it won't do. I had my lessons on it for several years when I was at school, so I got to know it very well. It made a great job of the Alcock Introduction and Passacaglia (especially compared with that dreadful old thing that used to be in Room 90 at the RCM and used for ARCM examinations!) and had no trouble with most other things from Howells to Hindemith.
Interesting - I took mine on the Concert Hall Harrison. I do not recall seeing the instrument in Room 90.
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I should have thought that this would be a useful addition to fortify a 4' for pedal solos. (I'm not an organist, so I may be completely wrong!)
Not at all. My 'own' church instrument has an independent 2ft. Nachthorn on the Pedal Organ and I find it quite useful - and not just for trios.
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A few weeks ago, my son's class teacher asked the children if they knew any French words or phrases. My son (aged 7) volunteered 'Jeux de combinasion'.
Would I be correct in assuming that the teacher had no idea about this one....?
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I wonder how long it is since a British builder last made a Cornet des Violes? Colston Hall, Bristol?
Most impressive, although I would have liked to see a second mixture in the Swell....
As would I - and a Quint Mixture at that.
The only other change I would make (on paper) is to substitute a Cymbale (29-33-36) for the Choir Mixture (19-22-26). This is my least favourite arrangement. Firstly, I regard it as too low in pitch, particularly with the wealth of (albeit flute) mutations available. Secondly, it has too many quint ranks. Thirdly, it culminates in an uncovered quint rank - which I find to be unsatisfactory.
Otherwise, on paper, it looks to be very well-designed with a good balance and spread of voices throughout the instrument. It is also good to see a choice of 32ft. flues (and reeds) available.
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...One thing though - and don't tell pcnd - there's another piece based on his favourite Kendrick ditty
GAK....BLEAH....
Great - and I was having such a nice evening off.
Probably not worth ordering these, then....
(*Goes off to burn another tambourine*)
It is a bit like mentioning the Scottish play.
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Oh, be a devil. Try Dunstable.
Ha!
PM coming your way - I need some advice, regarding performance issues, please.
Who did you study with...re-visited
in General discussion
Posted
Damn - and there I was, about to confess that I had actually studied (albeit briefly) with Ethel Merman and klaus Wunderlich....