john carter
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Posts posted by john carter
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I agree, this is difficult, but my choices today are the recordings that first got me hooked:
(In random order)
Widor Symphonie Gothique, Marcel Dupré, St Sulpice
Vierne Symphonies, Pierre Cochereau, ND Paris
Franck Chorals, Fernando Germani, Selby Abbey
Complete Bach, original Archiv recordings, Helmut Walcha
and just to throw in something less predictable:
Alain, Duruflé etc, St Etienne du Mont, Vincent Warnier
To my ears, a young genius at work.
JC
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May I add my thanks to those posted so far. I have missed the wit and wisdom of my fellow contributors!
JC
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Everything is possible and there is no reason why you couldn't get excellent results, but I have a few concerns. If it does go wrong, and you are away on holiday, who is going to support it? With proprietary instruments there is generally backup available. Second, I suggest you look at the licence conditions on the OrganART Media website. It may be that others are less restrictive, but it is not clear what the cost might be if you are to be permitted freedom for public performance or publishing recordings. Finally, it is worth adding up the overall cost of very high specification computer/s, software and interface development as well as the cost of installation, amplification, loudspeakers and console adaptation. It may not prove to be a significantly cheaper option.
JC
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And talking of flame-throwers...
Indeed! I wish a certain participant to this forum would realise that we are aware of his or her presence and don't need to be reminded in large blue text.
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I really think that all it would take in one seriously gifted person to emerge from the woodwork and unite & motivate ALL of us to do things at a local level and ultimately a national one. To pursue the Jamie Oliver example to the point of tedium, that happened in only one or two schools but it has created a very significant national groundswell. Why, in this usually cynical country? Because he took people with him, and it was clear at all times that it was the kids' interests at stake, not the presenter's. I am surprised this idea doesn't get more immediate support - perhaps we all prefer moaning!
You are quite right David. I remember the bassoon player Archie Camden inspiring me when I was at Junior school. He showed that it could be fun being an instrumental player. Today I would perhaps look to somebody like Howard Goodall.
JC
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How do we like to hear our Bach played to-day?
Does this style of performance have any relevance or merit to-day?
MM
Well, if you are of bus-pass age like me, then the first of your examples is certainly relevant. At the age of twenty, I listened to the recordings of Albert Schweitzer and frankly couldn't understand what merit anybody saw in his performances, but as I grew up I began to appreciate the human being behind the music. I suppose just in the same way I can appreciate a fine wine or the scent of a beautiful rose more now than when I was young.
I'm not so sure about the GTB D minor fugue. It doesn't reach the parts that Fr. van Tricht did. In fact it reminds me of somebody frantically trying to fit their performance into one side of a 78 rpm disc.
Authenticity has its place, but so does the art of making music to reach the soul.
JC
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OMG, this is just like straight out of Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith, with John playing the role of Supreme Chancellor Palpatine trying to turn Anakin Skywalker (Adrian) to the dark side. John makes it all sound oh so reasonable and common sensical. Aaaarrrrrggghhhhh!!!!I suspect the problem is going to be the lack of pipes.
The problem could be like the one at the Church I attend - a lack of organ! On the basis that "You can't get stand-in organists", we have to manage with a piano. There is also a ghastly hymn machine that makes noises appropriate for Halloween, but I have used my light sabre to deal with that and it now skulks unloved and unwanted behind a curtain. Life is full of compromises and a digital organ, while less desirable than a pipe organ, is not necessarily unmusical.
Supreme Chancellor
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That's exactly the problem - there is NO room anywhere. My preference, by far is to go far an instrument, rather than a substitute. No offence to those who like them, but I just don't enjoy playing digital instruments, whether pianos or organs. I never have - the physical sensation of playing is not the same, and the physical sensation of listening is definitely not the same.
Why not discuss the aspects of digital instruments that you don't like with the people that build them? You may help them to improve their product and your project and others will ultimately benefit from those improvements. As Phil T said, the most important thing is to have an instrument that does what is necessary for the available money. I am sure that the key to achieving a satisfactory result will be in the choice of loudspeakers and their positions, remembering that they are as much subject to the acoustic environment as pipes.
JC
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While we would all like to support UK organ builders in projects such as this, in these days of free trade it is normal for tenders to be invited by advertisement in the Journal of the European Union. Then it comes down to who can meet the specified requirements for the lowest tender. In my professional career, I sometimes had to go with suppliers I would not have chosen, but who could demonstrate they were competent enough and offered good value for public money. Sadly it is not always the purchaser or consultant's choice that wins.
JC
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5 miles? I once drove back 15. Needless to say, I had left both the organ deactivated and the chuch secure. It sems that many organists suffer from this very specific form of OCD. My theory is that it sterms from early experience. All of us, I'm sure have, as beginners, been issued with dire warnings about the dangers of leaving the blower on, the shutters open etc. Fair enough, of course. However, many of us have also had to put up with petty chuch officials complaining that 'some youngster is being allowed to damage the organ'. Result, lifelong paranoia. Of course, I'm only writing this because the voices tell me to...
One of my earliest DIY jobs was to install a pilot light where you could see it from the exit door. It saved the climb back into the loft a number of times.
JC
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Indeed - it sounds not unlike a large turn-of-the-century* Hill organ.
(Including nine replacement ranks and eighteen additional ranks of pipes added by Marcussen in the 1959 - 61 rebuild.)
I like the sound, too. But I would hate to have two people beside me pulling and pushing stops whilst I played. Besides, what does Jos van der Kooy do if one (or both) of his registrants are sick, or stuck in traffic?
* 19th - 20th century.
If a member of your string trio is sick or get's stuck in traffic, you just have to use your initiative and work your way round it. Working with registrants is a team effort in just the same way. However I was once asked, by an organist I was assisting, not to sigh so deeply every time he played a bum note! I hadn't realised I was doing so.
JC
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Well here's one that makes the whole world sit and think, "Blimey!"
http://orgelconcerten.ncrv.nl/ncrv?nav=cpqbuCsHtGAiBzBGFwBdC
Hans van Nieuwkoop in recital.
Marvel at this instrument, and make sure to listen to the Alain and the final Bach work.
Organs don't come any better than this.....anywhere.
MM
Well, who would have thought it. Alain at Alkmaar. Brought tears to my eyes.
Blimey!
JC
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I don’t know what it is but, apart from those passages in Franck where it is specified, I never think of using a Tremulant. It always seems to evoke the sweet scent of peppermint rock and candyfloss, perhaps brought on by too much time at Blackpool Tower in my youth. Yet at a recent recital, the organist used the device with such good judgment and taste I began to think I was missing something.
In what circumstances do others choose to use or steer clear of the Tremulant? Is there a cure for Tremolophobia?
JC
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Keep to a tempo as fast as clarity will permit.
I think that is they key phrase in these notes. Too fast and the whole thing becomes a fog rather than a tornado.
JC
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From Marie-Claire Alain's notes to her LPs of the [more or less] complete works on the Erato label
Incidentally, has this recording (on the organ of the Basilique Saint-Christophe, Belfort) ever been released on CD?
Indeed, Erato Ultima 3984-26996-2.
In some ways, I prefer it to her later recordings.
JC
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One aspect that was touched on in an earlier post but is often neglected is for the performer to talk to the audience about the music that he or she is playing. For so many recitals, even the programme is not published in advance. You turn up, find the duplicated list of items, sit and listen, applaud and go home, sometimes none the wiser about the music or its creator.
If organists wish to introduce unfamiliar and more "challenging" pieces, they should at least give the audience some background as to why they thought it was worthy of inclusion in the programme. It also gives the audience the chance to see the performer's face rather than the back of his head and perhaps learn more about that person than is often the case.
JC
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The well-known french organist Xavier Darasse recorded many discs, among which Liszt at......St-Maximin du Var !
Here is a short extract that might be interesting because it shows how the true french reeds sound: nearly like spanish ones.
To be listened loud:
http://www.voiceoflyrics.com/gr/014/014p3_64k.mp3
Pierre
That has just brightened up my morning... and the sun has just come out as well!
JC
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If anyone wants a lesson in console-control on the fly, it is quite an experience to watch the British theatre-organist, Simon Gledhill, who tends to hand-register an awful lot.
It may well be that he was born with the repetition-speed of a woodpecker and the accuracy of a praying-mantis, but it's mighty impressive to behold when he is changing registration constantly, and still getting an awful lot of notes down at the same time.
I reckon that the youngsters to-day are amateurs!
MM
Perhaps stop keys and the horseshoe layout have some advantages over drawstops when it comes to hand registration. You need to be fairly careful with second touch cancelling though - add the Fifteenth a bit clumsily and whoops that's all you've got...
JC
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On reading this through I realised I have only scratched the surface of the subject as there are far more complexities to be considered, and wonder why I started on it. If the temperature changes, the pitch of the organ moves away from the reeds and French music sound more authentic, and that’s that! I will now pour myself a glass of wine and go to bed.
FF
A very fine French wine, I hope! Anyway, I'm glad you started on the subject, it's most interesting.
JC
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With 27 stops, I would love to see something like this.
An excellent choice heva! I could certainly live happily with that one.
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On the subject of the Reubke sonata, I'd appreciate recommendations for CDs of this work that are currently available. I think I must have thrown out my old LP version and not replaced it.
JC
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Have you heard Hauptwerk live, John? Personally I thought the St Anne's, Moseley, samples far better than any digital organ I have yet heard. I wasn't so impressed with the Skinner, but I've only heard the Hauptwerk 1 version of that (and still haven't got around yet to listening to the link Douglas posted).
I admit I have only heard recordings produced using Hauptwerk and some, not all of them, are very good. However I am always wary of a sales pitch that claims this is the next best thing to a pipe organ - it isn't. Nor am I sure that I want all the blower noise, action noise and wind fluctuation just to make it sound more "authentic". The technology is in danger of becoming more important than the music.
JC
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Hallo, John,
If you were listening to a CD recording of an organ, you wouldn't expect every pipe to have its own amplifier and speaker. HW simply reproduces a CD-quality recording of every pipe (with the acoustic of the building). The acid test would be to compare recordings of the actual organs with recordings of their HW samples (same player, same piece, same registration). In theory there should be no audible difference.
Have you seen/heard the demo clip refered to in yesterday's post?
Yes DHM,
I listened to the demo and it is excellent - CD quality. I think that says it all. If I have a string quartet playing in my living room and they stop and put on a CD instead, I can hear the difference from anywhere in the house.
I'm not questioning the quality of Hauptwerk or the fine engineering and artistry behind the demo, but I suspect that the total cost of Brett Milan's demo system is not far short of a top of the range purpose built electronic organ and that both are capable of making fine music. However, both remain electronic organs.
JC
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Good morning.
Colin has a fair point and I stand corrected.
What I meant to imply was that this is not what we would normally call an "electronic organ".
Hauptwerk is (as they say in Texas) "a whole 'nuther ball game".
I'm sorry, Hauptwerk is an electronic organ like any other digitally sampled organ that combines the sounds and amplifies them to a loudspeaker system. That is where the shortcomings appear, not in the recorded samples, some of which are very attractive and authentic.
Now if every sample had its own amplifier and loudspeaker, then we might be talking about another ball game, but it is exaggeration to claim that Hauptwerk is capable of reproducing organ sounds significantly better than other professional electronic instruments.
As I have written before, let's not forget that it is the music that matters most.
JC
The Five Organ Recordings You Couldn't Live Without.
in The Organ
Posted
I'm interested to know which complete Alain would be your preference? I favour the earlier recordings at Saint Christophe, Belfort over the later collection performed on the instruments that Jehan Alain would have known. But referring back to my earlier post, Vincent Warnier's performances of Alain are stunning.
I certainly agree with your first point, organ CDs would only have a token appearance in my top five.
JC