john carter
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Posts posted by john carter
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To mis-quote Kipling: if you can enjoy hearing Schweitzer playing Bach, MM, you're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!
Gareth, if you can come back to me in twenty years and say the same, I might believe you.
JC
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John, whilst I appreciate your sensitivities, let us give our newest member a chance. We have already requested that he change his pseudonym - to which entreaty he acceded readily. Now he is being castigated for bad language - which is fair enough. However, I suspect that he will soon learn the ways of this board.
Point taken, pcnd.
JC
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I have just realised that it is almost an hour since our new member, Vox Humana 8', has upset, annoyed, offended or insulted anyone. In welcoming this young man and his unbounded enthusiasm, may I suggest he considers the feelings of others before contributing. I know I am an ageing fuddy-duddy (and a numpty to boot - as innate so kindly reminded me the other week
), but one of the best things about this discussion forum is the polite way in which business is conducted. So please, VH8, pipe down a bit and your opinions are more likely to be taken seriously.JC
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Thanks, but the link seems to be OK now.
I don't know how other board members feel and of course it's entirely up to you, but if you decide you would prefer to change your "handle" to something less confusing I'm sure one of the board moderators would be able to do the honours if you sent John Pike Mander a personal message.
I have already found the ambiguity of username confusing, suddenly realising part way into a post that it wasn't in VH's familiar style. I'd be grateful if VH8 would consider a different title or clearly different spelling.
JC
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I totally agree with Patrick. Having looked through the information on the BIOS website, it seems that in setting the criteria for the award of HOCs, a relatively small, though knowledgeable, group at BIOS are trying to emulate the listed buildings activities of English Heritage, but without the clout or the money to support restoration. If all that comes of the scheme is the award of a "handsome certificate" that may help in raising future funding then surely the definitions of an historic instrument should be broader, to include the likes of Armley and, more modestly, Heaton. Otherwise there is a risk that old fossils may be preserved at the expense of real National Treasures.
JC
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There isn't a great deal to add to all the good advice here apart from the matter of the use of headphones. Please take care not to listen at high volume levels for long periods or you could cause permanent damage to your hearing. It's very tempting to turn them up because it sounds wonderful, but the consequences, especially to someone who depends on their ears for their profession, can be devastating.
JC
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Not merely a beautiful Vox Humana, but fine playing, exquisite phrasing and a very elegant technique.
Barry Williams
I totally agree. In another of my silly questions, does everyone else move the bottom line of the left hand, in the opening of this Choral, into the pedal or do they struggle like me with what is on the printed page?
JC
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Thanks - I was just curious!
PS I'm sure MM will explain to me the etymology of avatar
Well, if I will do in place of MM, and at the risk of being condemned as a numpty again...
An avatar is a released soul or deity returned to this world in bodily form. It comes from the Sanskrit to cross over or come down. Whilst I am sure there are many fine folk subscribing to this board, I don't imagine that there are many reincarnated gods amongst them!
JC
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I've only been aware of "numpty" in the last 2-3 years and I think I've only seen it online, never in real life. I've assumed it means something along the lines of ignorant novice, often in the world of new technologies. In fact you are probably a bit numpty yourself, John.
Oh yes, absolutely true. I would never have become a Technology Development Manager without that qualification.
JC
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With the standard 4' stop, is it usually just the trebles that are harmonic, or are there instances where the harmonic pipes are carried all the way down to the bottom? If the basses are not harmonic, where do the harmonic pipes usually start? I have come across examples starting at c' and g', but have no idea what the norm is, or even if there is one.
Being ancient and ignorant, I don't know what "numpty" means. My copy of the New Oxford English Dictionary doesn't help, so in the spirit of Humphrey Lyttleton's Uxbridge Dictionary, I've decided a numpty is actually the name given to the hole half way along a harmonic pipe. As to the original question, I'm sorry, I haven't a clue!
JC
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Mmmm - well, the voicing must be incredible! As I wrote, on my instrument, this just results in 'organum' noises - which are not particularly useful. It also does nothing for the foundations!
I was under the impression that Cavaillé-Coll rarely included the Quinte 2 2/3 much on his smaller instruments - there are even a number of larger organs, where he omitted this stop on the G.O.; Nôtre-Dame, for example.
I'd like to draw this together with my other topic about the use of the Twelfth. Pcnd, I assume (always a dangerous thing) that you are saying here that you could not usefully combine the Twelfth on G.O. or Swell of the Minster organ with 8p foundations alone as they do not blend together. I take it, then, that you would only draw the Twelfth after the 2p? Could, however, the Quint on the Positive be used to colour other 8p stops?
JC
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Thank you for this, Vox - but this is what I do! The box is checked, the cookie jar is open for business and I have not made any substantive alterations to my anti-virus or firewall programmes.
Oh well....
I think this change is possibly intended to protect the board from attack. Having recently suffered a "spam storm", I'm happy to put up with the inconvenience if it makes our details more secure.
JC
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So they say, but I can't get to grips with this new console here!
Well, I've worked out that you have to log in each time your IP address changes. As my router consumes 10 watts and radiates quite a lot of heat, I tend to turn it off overnight. That's why I need to log in each day. Otherwise, I haven't encountered any problems so far.
JC
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I find I am inconsistent about the use of the Twelfth as part of the GO chorus. At times I feel it is invaluable, at other times it just seems to add an edge that I don't like. When do you choose to use this stop or omit it?
JC
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*Exmaines large glass of Jacob's Creek Chardonnay somewhat guiltily.*
Why be guilty? Lucky sod!
I understand your feeling of guilt. I would have expected a man with your nom de plume to choose a Chassagne Montrachet rather than Jacob's Creek.
JC
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I think the sound of the organ at Selby (currently) is horrid.
I wouldn't want to play it or hear it played. Neither the choruses nor the reeds sound like any big Hill with which I am familiar.
I wish the remains of this instrument well, and like many others regret that it is now officially unplayable, but it is both extremely sad and highly regrettable that a true 'heritage instrument' like this was ever subjected to such ill-judged and inappropriate modifications. Where was the diocesan adviser at the time?!
IMHO pcnd is absolutely correct in his comment about the pedal mixture - even if (as you say) it can be effective in a limited and specific way, this is at a ridiculously high pitch. Not even the great Mr.Downes would have done it. Drawing such a stop - in effect a pedal Scharf-Cymbal - can only help confuse the sound of the organ - bass notes squeaking their way between the various manual pitches. I stand by my word: ridiculous.
In the genuine baroque organ, the purpose of high pitches is
1. to make the pedal completely independant at a time when pedal couplers were scarce
2. to hold high cantus firmus lines
To specify a Cymbal mixture without a proper chorus mixture in any division is plain misguided.
To return to the topic, by (fairly dramatic) comparison with Selby, the organ at Manchester Town Hall is not similarly spoiled. It may not be 100% genuine C-C, but when I played it, there was plenty to admire and appreciate.
It is interesting to note that the Selby Pedal Mixture has the same composition as the one added to the C-C at Sainte-Trinité in Paris at Messiaen's request - so perhaps it was influenced as much by fashion as practicality? I seem to remember reading somewhere that Olivier Glandaz said he couldn't bear to listen to it. One hopes that any restoration at Manchester will be more sympathetic to the original scheme.
JC
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Re Selby - there was an amazing LP of Germani playing there in 1962 in its former incarnation - 'made it sound very fine. It was one of the first organ records I heard - Liszt: BACH, Franck: Piece Heroique, Reger: Hallejua ! Gott zu loben and Widor: Toccata.
AJJ
...and a second disc with Franck 3 Chorals and Pastorale. This was later re-issued on CD together with the Pièce Héroïque and the Widor, but I fear the Liszt and Reger are lost. I wish I could find a copy. I happened to visit Selby just at the time the recordings were made and I remember how impressed I was.
JC
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Isn't it interesting this? I asked a simple question and over half the replies are nothing to do with the question I asked. Wouldn't it be good if folks could stick to the topic?
No.
JC
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We did discuss the idea of a second console. Even with a new console on the North side of the quire, the player will not hear the organ to the full extent.
A point I raised some months ago, but I can't remember the context... It may not be practicable to take the player to the optimum listening position, but with modern audio technology, it should be possible to take the listening position to the player. Many recording artistes listen to a mix rather than relying on what they hear in the studio. The idea may be a bit too revolutionary for some, but is perhaps worth a try in a difficult location.
JC
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Just to say that I totally agree with the above comment. It's sometimes frustrating when one is trying to find some information and only to find the topic talking about something completely different within the first few responses and often by the same people. It's guess it's always a risk in having a board like this as it is open to jo public.
I have noticed from some of your previous posts that you don't have a very high opinion of "jo public". Well as a non-professional contributor to this board, I presume I am one of those that you choose to sneer at. It doesn't contribute to my day.
JC
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One difference I notice is that I have to log in daily, even though the stored "cookie" supposedly remains valid for one year. It's not a problem, just something I keep forgetting on my first visit of the day.
JC
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Doncaster? Where is it ? A tiny village, a "Kaff"
as people say in eastern Belgium???
Pierre
Pierre, as someone who was born just seven miles from what was, at one time, England's largest and possibly finest pipe organ, I'd advise you to choose your words more carefully!
I may have some views about the Belgians eating their chips with mayonnaise. Mercifully, I don't think Doncaster Minster has been affected by the recent floods.JC
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Much as I enjoy crosswords or su doku while relaxing during a break, I have really missed the forum during the last couple of weeks. May I echo the thanks of others to Mr. Mander and his team for providing an excellent source of information and entertainment.
JC
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Do you remember that splendid recording of Arnold Richardson doing the Reubke at the RFH? Despite the organ it remains one of the finest performances I have ever heard - just as you describe, con fuoco.
His performance of the Brahms' Fugue in A flat minor on the other side is terrific too; Richardson captures the beauty and intensity of the writing. I wish they would reissue that LP as a CD.
Barry Williams
Absolutely! How can we persuade companies to re-issue these gems? Perhaps Gary Cole can explain the process?
JC
That Toccata ...
in The Organ
Posted
Life is full of surprises! On stepping into a subterranean passage while changing trains in Lausanne earlier today, I heard a familiar theme. A young busker was playing "that toccata" on an accordion. He played the whole thing from memory with stunning accuracy. It is a sound I normally dislike, but I had to admire the courage and skill involved. At the end I thanked him and put a generous contribution into his hat, but declined the CD. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to discover anything about his background. (And, no, I don't think it was the titulaire from Lausanne Cathedral!)
JC