contraviolone
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Posts posted by contraviolone
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Mark Wimpress asks if the Chancel Open Diapasons were more powerful or persuasive than before. I can assure you they were not changed. Bear in mind the Cathedral itself has been cleaned, removing a lot of dust and dirt which may have had an absorbent influence. Also, now that the Dome Dais is there, there are perhaps less bodies under the dome to absorb the sound, so that may have had an influence.
Hadn't thought of that one!
I have to admit that I didn't notice the use of any of the Royal Trumpets during the recital. However, I was told that they had been used at one stage by somebody sitting in the Nave. Where we were sitting, it would have been difficult to tell, bearing in mind the power of the Dome section. I would be interested to know if anybody can confirm or otherwise if they were used.Given the power now of both the Chancel and Dome sections, I wonder if the West End reeds need just a little bolstering to enable them to keep up with the rest of the ensemble?
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I was not really sure whether the Royal Trumpets were used at all in the Thierry Escaich 'Deuxieme Evocation' or the Improvisation, so from what you say Douglas they clearly were not! Certainly the overall impact in the Dome where I was sitting suggests it may now be difficult to hear them at all if used, such is the rich and powerful sound now coming from the Dome. But I still think an interesting balance has been achieved between the Chancel and Dome sections that perhaps wasn't there before. Either way it was extremely impressive and enjoyable.
John Mander notes that no changes were made to the Chancel pipework at all, except for cleaning. Was it my imagination or did Diapason I come across as more powerful and pervasive than before? Also the beauty of Diapason II really did make its presence felt. This really is such a beautiful stop, and is a real gem in its own right.
As a further aside both the narrative in the Programme, together with the specification provided, confirm that the two Dome chorus reeds (Contra Posaune 16' and Trumpet 8') have also been replaced with brand new stops. So together with the new tubas 16.8.4 there are now five brand new Mander reeds in the Dome! (The St Paul's website by the way does not reflect the replacements for the two chorus reeds). This is a quite dramatic change to the Dome section, and may explain the reed-dominated impact of the Dome section in the recital!
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Certainly go along with that handsoff! No doubt the 'balance' I alluded to earlier is down to both the genius of the performer and the position of the mobile console under the Dome. And the organ certainly sounds revitalised! Without any doubts our greatest instrument in the United Kingdom today!
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Certainly a very enjoyable evening. I was particularly impressed with the overall balance of the various sections (Chancel and Dome) when played together. This is due no doubt perhaps to the position of the console under the Dome, so that the player was actually able to hear what was going on!
I agree Douglas the St Paul's organ stands head and shoulders above the Royal Albert Hall instrument. It is, in any event, our finest instrument in Great Britain, and by a very considerable margin. The recent restoration and improvements emphasise this further. I would not go quite as far to say (as Simon Bates alluded to re W.L. Sumner) that it is the 'finest church organ in Europe', but it is certainly in the top five, imho.
And it was nice to see the Mander Team acknlowleged at the Concert. A very interesting position you placed yourselves gentlemen, I have always favoured the Dome South side/South Transept entrance! Will try your spot next time!
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It is interesting that the Willis tubas have been carefully preserved, should anyone in the future wish to re-instate them. This in itself is a very laudable idea. But I am curious as to why a degree of 'brightness' is required from these ranks, when they seemed to work so well before. 'Full Dome' is already an extremely dramatic, dare I say 'nuclear' experience. You either like being bombarded (sic) with the decibel equivalent of a supersonic aircraft taking off, or you don't. I guess it is in human nature to push the boundaries to the limit.
I would rather have seen the addition of a Cornet on this section, or perhaps several solo mutations, rather than further clarity on what is already an extremely impressive sonic earthquake. I do reserve judgement though until I hear them next month.
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I will be interested to hear the new Dome tubas next month. I am sure, as in the case of all the Mander additions to this organ, they will sound very impressive. Not being the greatest fan of tubas, I do hope to be pleasantly surprised by the results.
Having said all this, I am not entirely convinced that the complete removal of the Father Willis Dome tubas is a good idea, at least on aesthetic grounds. Of all the tubas stops that I've come across they were, for me, the most impressive of the lot, and by some margin. The description 'hot coals' did indeed refer specifically to these tuba ranks. I just can't help but feel that if you readily remove such noteworthy ranks of a master organ builder, then surely the rest will follow in due course.
Oh well, if this does happen, at least we have the old recordings to fall back on.
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And... GT-B's Elegy worked like a dream, many people commenting on how 'English' the ND organ can sound!
Precisely, and this is where the last restoration went so badly wrong. Not only do you suffer the barrage of getting into the building in the first place, you then have the dubious pleasure of listening to a larger version of King's College Cambridge, but without the subtleties that that sometimes beautiful instrument can offer.
Best to ignore the place and journey across river to a church and organ that is so infinitely better than this frankly cattlemarket of a tourist trap.
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It was enlightening to hear from Charles Hazlewood that the longest pipe on the organ is 64' in length.
I believe the 64' Acoustic Bass is exactly as described - a derived stop!
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When I was there on June 21, I saw that a new console was situated near the entrance of the quire.
I just now read the latest newsletter concerning the restauration of the cathedral, which makes me believe this is a new permanent situation and the console is not going back to its previous position in a loft above the quire stalls
I believe there will be at least four positions in the Cathedral where the new mobile console can be positioned (there will be four plug-in points to enable this). No doubt one position will be somewhere beneath the Dome itself, for recital purposes.
An update to the refurbishment at St Paul's would be interesting: I think this has been requested before, without luck I'm afraid.
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My point was that I have enjoyed following the progress at Worcester, having played both the Bradford & pipe organs on several occasions in the past. Therefore when I look at the postings under Worcester Cathedral, that is what I hope to find! There might be a place for discussions on how many tubas Salchester Abbey has but this topic is surely not the place for them. If contributors have 'run out of useful things to say...' then stop!
Healthy discussions normally lead to at least comparative analyses of the topic under discussion. Admittedly there is the prospect of contributions going off at tangents but normally (as in this case) the topic naturally reappears once again. Stimulating stuff really MikeK, you'll just have to get used to it.
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Please may we return to the forum topic, I find this thread re. likes & dislikes rather childish in a topic that Adrian has otherwise made so informative. If you must continue, why not start a new topic?
I don't think this has gone 'off topic' at all. If anything it may have heightened interest in the developments at Worcester - I will certainly go and listen when it's up and running, and I'm sure I will be pleasantly surprised.
St Salvators: my experience (when I was used to the Peter Collins at TSCH): thin, spitting foundations and principals, top-heavy choruses where the pipes in the mixtures are voiced more strongly than the 8 foots (yet still chiff...seriously - the only time I've ever really noticed mixture chiff), reeds so rough and uneven as to be unusable in some cases; but more objectively: poor regulation, bad action, too big a specification for the size of the case it inhabits. I've only heard San Salvators from the console - I've never heard it from the ground, where I'm told it sounds better - but distance and a good acoustic can cover a multitude of sins.St Salvator's sounds much better from the nave - I agree with your points, but I was very familiar with this instrument in the early nineties (it was literally on my doorstep), it really is such a stunning and brave instrument for the University to install in their small Chapel. I agree about the Reiger at St Giles - so I'd better make that 'three' then.
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You'd better come clean and say which cathedral organs you have in mind, because having played just about all of the cathedral and other "great church" organs in the midlands and south west in the last year or two I can't think of a single one that matches your description
I really don't feel I need to 'come clean', thank you. I prefer to listen to a number of Organs which I personally find enjoyable: there are two instruments I particularly enjoy in England, and there is a significantly larger number of instrumemts I enjoy in Continental Europe. I suppose you may call this personal 'taste'. Whatever you may call it, I certainly do not enjoy many of the sounds produced by the Organs you play upon nfortin. I am entitled to my opinion, and you are entitled to yours. The spirit of Magna Carta is not quite dead....yet.
Having played Salisbury recently, there are two tuba ranks - one at 8ft. pitch and a Tuba Clarion at 4ft. pitch. Both are still inclined to honk, particularly in the tenor region of the unison rankThis reminds me of Ely, which is almost on my doorstep. The tuba here makes a dreadful noise, when last I heard it most people wished to leave the Cathedral as quickly as possible, specifically because of the horrendous noise coming from this stop. Ughhh.
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I am certainly looking forward to listening to the new Worcester Organ, it certainly looks superb from the photos supplied by Adrian. I am sure it will also deliver some magic, just in the same way that some English organs can also be magical. Or rather, certain divisions can be magical, such as the Choir division at King's College, Cambridge!
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[i still maintain that it sounds like a set of old rusty saucepans and I question it's place in an English Cathedral/quote]
Strange, I didn't see or hear many 'old rusty saucepans' on my recent visit to Gloucester. Not many cats about either. So what really should we find in an English Cathedral Organ? Is it the usual compromised hotch-potch of heavy pondorous diapasons, thin watery strings, broad bellowy reeds on the Great that bear little resemblance to musical reeds whatsoever, the depressing array of imitative orchestral noises on the solo that bear no resemblance absolutely whatsoever to any orchestral instrument known to man, and the coup de grace, the English tuba stop, the most noisome and incongruous excuse for a very loud noise ever devised by the hands of man? Is this really what an English Cathedral organ is all about? Is it??
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But then we shall end up
with 270 in Europe instead of 27, isn't it ?
That's a good point! But Scotland will most certainly dissolve the Union at some point, so the 27 will at least become 28!
St Pauls Cathedral
in General discussion
Posted
I remember hearing the West End reeds for the first time back in 1979. Christopher Dearnley played a magnificent Entrada on the Royal trumpets, and the sound filled the entire nave and came very well into the Dome area. Well, it must be my hearing (or lack of it), I am getting older, but these reeds do not seem to have the same presence as before? I am sure the wind pressures are the same today as they were back then? Or perhaps I'm missing something else?