contraviolone

That's quite an early recording by Pierre Cochereau though, before all the work carried out in the 1960s. I suppose from a historical perspective it is quite interesting, if only to prove that by the 1950s the organ was falling to pieces. By far the best recording by Pierre Cochereau of BWV565 was made in 1973, on the Philips label. I have both the vinyl and CD recording of this performance, and for me this represents the pinnacle of PCs abilities as a performer, and also the very best of the Notre Dame de Paris organ before all the changes made in 1992: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0ti8f0GIGw

Having listened to this organ in person on several occasions, I must agree with comments regarding the power of this instrument. I wouldn't mind if it made a pleasant sound, but since it does not the overall impression is not good. Recordings also confirm this, but it is even worse when attending a recital or service. I wouldn't be surprised if the Henry Willis III stop was the best stop on the organ! Why they employed a Dutch firm in the first place beats me. They should tender for a new contract with French builders, and throw the whole instrument out.

Thanks for that. I always thought even a modest independent flue chorus on the Pedal was a good idea? I'm not sure why a cathedral organ wouldn't need it? I suppose I must be a child of the 50s and 60s Organ Reform Movement. I will be very interested to hear the results, especially those 32' extensions. It just shouts out John Compton, which is no bad thing. I've always admired the Compton consoles as well. You should really go visit Downside Abbey!

I wonder if Father Willis I would approve... I was going to mention in the other thread but will add it here. I suspect the major driver for all the derivations/extensions/polyphones is not just about the issue of space but saving money. I doubt whether Gloucester has the money otherwise. In which case why not go electric as well? This works quite well at Blackburn Cathedral, which also has a very good acoustic. This also saves money and can work. You still keep the ancient case and pipework, as will be the case at Gloucester, but have a polyphone/electric additions behind the facade. A sort of 1920s giant electric/polyphonic theatre organ with a few old pipes chucked in for good measure. The emphasis today is to go electric, so why not?

The composition of the Pedal organ looks straightforward. There are only three fully independent stops: Open Wood 16 (the old Bishop stop), Subbass 16, and Flute 4. The rest are either derived, or extensions/borrowings from elsewhere. The two 32' flues are extensions as a polyphone setup. This was much used by John Compton in his theatre organs.

The rationale is open to individual interpretation and opinion.

Quite honestly i don't know what to make of it. I've always been a firm believer in an independent Pedal organ as much as possible (space permitting of course), but the derivations and borrowings on this one defy belief. I'm not keen on reed chorus extensions either. I would imagine Ralph Downes will be spinning in his grave at least 24,000 rpm, which is about as much as a modern powerful turbo on a Ferrari. Seriously though, have we come full circle? Is this the reincarnation of John Compton and Robert Hope Jones?

Completely agree. There is no excuse for this ridiculous behaviour. Yet another item on the long list of reasons for me for not supporting the Church of England. It's full of weirdos and yobs.

An interesting 'behind the scenes' video of Anna Lapwood and the organ curator delving into the interior of the Royal Albert Hall organ. Impressive to see the two Great divisions, and the unenclosed reeds of both the Great and Bombard tubas. The organ does appear to be very dusty though. Obviously not cleaned since the rebuild of 2002-04. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq0s17bzdLI

With regard to Gloucester. The removal of the 32' flue in the Downes rebuild (and discussed in another thread) seemed a bit unnecessary to me, so I would certainly like to see that reinstated. I suppose this opens up the question of how effective the original stop was, given its location high up somewhere in the triforia (that being the bottom octave extension of the 16'). This again opens up the problems of an organ case positioned centrally on a quire screen. There never seems to be enough room, and such expediencies of placing pipework elsewhere never really works out that well. Rather than speculating on the specification, it will be interesting to see how Nicholson's approach the requirement to support both the choir to the east of the screen and the congregation on large occasions in the nave.

Completely agree with regard to St Ouen. I gather the organ is currently undergoing a sympathetic restoration, with the stop list kept exactly as it is. I think many of us are looking forward to the results!

Contrasting with the situation today, when It is clearly thought that everything was wrong!

Very interesting information. I do enjoy the occasional video you make for YouTube. Glad you are retaining the Bishop stop. I'm sure the finished results will be very interesting, I'll be there to listen when all is done! Talking of videos, very much enjoyed your latest video from Radley College. Impressive tuba, bright and powerful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzJlblaWn7I

It's certainly a strange and unfortunate episode. I had much admiration for Ralph Downes. I attended his last recital on the RFH organ in the 1980s, it was one of the 5.55pm performances. He gave a superb recital, and finished with Widor's toccata from the 5th, which was just incredibly performed for a man of his age. But some of his views and actions are hard to understand. As you say, he could have just left the pipes there disconnected. It just comes across as being vindictive, which is a real shame.

Yes I believe you're right. I was thinking of the bottom notes of the 16' Diapason. The majority of the Open Wood pipework is in the South screen pit, but even the lowest notes (at least one I recall from the photos) is bent at right angles so not to appear above the quire screen. I have visited the organ loft once back in 1991 and did notice the open wood pipes laid horizontally to the right as you look at the console. I asked the late Sir Stephen Cleobury what he thought of this arrangement. He gave me one of those wry smiles and said there was no other place to put them, but the result was effective in the chapel. Not sure though what it would be like at the console!

Yep I agree. Space has always been a problem with the organ at Gloucester, so if I had any input to the scheme I would: 1) Reinstate the 32' flue bottom octave in the triforium. 2) Make the space and depth considerably bigger in the Quire screen as they have done with King's College Cambridge, where by digging down forming a pit they've housed the bottom notes of the 32' reed, the bottom notes of the 32' Double Open Wood, the bottom six notes of the 16' Double Open Diapason, the Solo box including the Great reeds and a few other bits and pieces. At Gloucester you could dig down even further and go for a 64' reed. Just imagine that! 3) Increase the depth of the organ case to allow lots more pipe work. Honestly anything is possible if you have the will and the dosh. Problem is, how would you guess the spec with all this subterranean pipework hidden away? There you go, that's my little scribble on the back of the fag packet for the day.

Thanks for posting that. Clearly the initial reports of the Coronation service lasting around one hour were inaccurate. I'd imagine the service will be at least two hours, if not longer. I am also intrigued that the Prime Minister, as a Hindu, is reading a lesson from the Gospel. That must be a first. Clearly his temporal responsibilities transcend his religious beliefs.

Very interesting, thanks for that. Talking of 'ancient' pipework, I do hope the two manual diapasons from the 17th Century will be preserved and used again? They were demonstrated by Jonathan Hope in his youtube video of the organ, and they sounded fine to me. At the other end of the timescale (so to speak), I would also hope the recent additions to the organ will also be preserved. In particular the 32' reed and also the pedal mutations, useful given the lack of a 32' flue in the instrument. Talking of which, I do remember one aspect of the rebuild of 1971 that probably reveals another aspect of RDs aversion to the Anglican choral tradition. This was the removal of the 32' flue which was an octave extension of the 16' flue. It was located in the upper galleries, and even though tucked away was apparently quite effective. There was astonishment when these pipes were removed, and consternation from several quarters. One argument for their retention was the dramatic use of this 32' flue in the more sombre episodes of the Anglican chant. When this was mentioned to RD, he simply said "why would anyone want to do that!" Probably sums up the entire ethos of the 1971 rebuild.

Hi James, Thanks for your posts, which certainly clarify the position. Without wishing to come across as being a bit 'difficult', the replacement of the organ (with the exception of the cases and the facade pipes) is effectively a brand new organ. As Choir Man has pointed out, this does appear to be at odds with the published statements from Gloucester Cathedral. Personally, having sung with the instrument, I never found it a problem with regard to instrumental support in the Quire. I'm sure the new instrument will be better for this, but I'm not really convinced that scrapping virtually the entire instrument to achieve this aim is justified. I actually liked the Gloucester organ, but I'm well aware that there are many who didn't like it at all. Anyway, good luck with the rebuild. Gloucester does have a superb acoustic, so that's always a good start for any major organ project!

Thanks for that. The various threads on that page certainly make interesting reading.

Case pipes are 17th Century. Ralph Downes brought them back into use in the rebuild 1971. It may be a joke but it is not a funny one.

Explains a lot then. Brutal the word that comes to mind.

First I've heard of the current scheme being 'scrapped'. All that's currently described is a rebuild but it is interesting that no specific mention has been made of retaining the current specification. It all comes across as being a bit 'cloak and dagger'. What is surprising is the long lead time to get the project finished (2026). If it were a straightforward rebuild retaining current pipework it would be both cheaper and quicker to complete. So there is the possibility of a complete rebuild with a new spec. I'm sure this will please some people as, judging by past comments on here down the years, some just don't like it.

I can remember the late Simon Preston conducting the service from the Quire stalls, but disappearing for the last hymn to play the voluntary.

Thanks for that. Looking on the Manders facebook page there is a photo of the new Choir 8' Tuba. It does seem strange that both the new Tuba and the Pedal Clarion (presumably at 4' pitch) were omitted on the NPOR entry. It makes you wonder if anything else is missing?