Ian Ball
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Posts posted by Ian Ball
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Sorry to lower the tone with the 'F' word, but now that October half term is almost upon us, we must surely all be admiring Festive lights being strung aloft from Shire to Shire... Perhaps this might ease the pain:
Sunday 14 December, 5.00 pm, La Nativité du Seigneur by Olivier Messiaen, performed by Ian Ball with Ruth Piolle (narrator) at St James the Great, Dursley, Gloucestershire.
For those of you with degrees in work avoidance:
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I go to bed completely happy to read this; but feel sure that it is a slip of the finger when you suggest it is an 'old skill'. Isn't it surely a necessary, constant and ever-present organ skill?
Yes indeed. I did dither about whether to put inverted commas around 'old' but decided against. It is an old skill but, as you say Nigel, that doesn't mean it is less necessary today.
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....But none of which is getting us any closer to a collectively acceptable definition of an English romantic organ - with dates to match.
But why is one seeking to do this? These 'O'-level definitions serve little useful purpose in fine art or literature (where, incidentally, in both arenas 'Romanticism' started in the 18th century). Rachmaninov has already been mentioned. Do we consider Beethoven Classical or Romantic? Is Scriabin Romantic, Impressionist or Expressionist? What about Goethe? Ultimately these labels are unhelpful. A Trost organ is as 'orchestral' in its own way as a Norman & Beard.
However, (and apologies if I have misunderstood) I really don't understand Pierre's assertion that genuine Romantic organs were not 'experimental'. The whole point of Romanticism was experiment: opium, out-of-body experiences; loosening of structure, form and tonality; the advent of new instruments made possible by new technologies.
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Quite. Talk to any old organists who were brought up in the Romantic style of registration (if you can still find any these days) and they will tell you that crescendos were simply a matter of adding stops; you never thought of subtracting them - especially since you might need them again during a subsequent decrescendo.
Absolutely! Besides, flutes and clarinets don't stop playing when brass and timps join in (and yes, I know the arguments about good composers using them at effective pitches but that isn't always the case in practice).
I remember Malcolm Archer, at the height of his new-kid-on-the-block powers, demonstrating the Bristol Cathedral organ to me without using a single piston. I was astonished and delighted the old skills of hand registration were still alive and well
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I hope the organ is safe as well, if the church fittings are preserved surely this includes the organ, but what use will it get?
Good point. It's hardly an area of Guardian-/Church Times-reading concert goers (I'm not being a snob, I grew up there
), but with imaginative leadership and a good education programme, it might get a new lease of life. Alternatively, the organ could join the queue of excellent Victorian instruments seeking a new home. Alas my study's a bit too small... 
(and it really does fill the 1000-seater church with sound!)IFB
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Having said all of that, it looks as if this church is going to come to a sticky end.....
With respect, it came to a sticky end twenty years ago. This is the first viable proposal to emerge with any prospect of success. The £3M lottery cash is also intended to preserve the church fittings. I'm hoping that includes the Abbott organ.
IFB
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Is it my imagination or do the Wolfgang Rubsam recordings of Rheinberger (Naxos) take rather a lot of liberties with what the scores ask for in terms of tempo, tempo fluctuations and registration, not to mention excessive rubato and flapping swell pedals? Perhaps I am being too purist but I somehow don't think so.
Any comments from those better qualified to comment thereon?
Malcolm Kemp
I agree. Not my taste at all. Emasculates the music, which loses energy and momentum.
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For Rheinberger, have a look here:
http://www.armley-schulze.co.uk/Sales.htm
....And simply click on "add to my basket" next to The CD from Graham Barber
with the Sonatas N° 8, 10 and 11.
I do not know anything as interesting as this one; this instrument
is astounishing in that music. And it would suit Mendelssohn exactly
the same: a glove.
Pierre
Absolutely! I had the privilege of playing the Reubke and accompanying the Durufle Requiem on it a couple of years ago. Both worked hand-in-glove. Not just the gloriously butch tutti (with that unique Great Mixtur), but the delicate piano colours. It even has a Harmonica, as called for by JR. Love it.
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A beautiful and beguiling sound, although I think I prefer the more silvery quality of the Wagner organ.
It certainly doesn't sound strange, as I play a lot of Bach and pre-Bach on this, in St Mary-de-Lode, Gloucester, UK:
Great long compass, GG, AA to f
Open Diapason 8
Stopped Diapason 8
Principal 4
Fifteenth 2
Sesquialtera III (bass) (new, in 18th century English style)
Cornet III (treble, from mid C) (new, in 18th century English style)
Trumpet 8 (from middle C only. John Gray pipes circa 1820)
Swell tenor F to f, in 'Nags Head' box
Open Diapason 8
Stop'd Diapason 8
Principal 4
Hautboy 8
Ped
Bourdon 16 (Bevington pipes)
Shifting movement and usual couplers
Rest of pipework pre 1800. Restored John Budgen, 2004. Thomas Young temperament.
The tierces sounds wonderful in contrapuntal music, and certainly suit unequal temperament (although I usually avoid playing hymns in certain keys!)
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I posted the following query in the Organ Forum but didn't get much response, so here goes again here....
I'm hoping one of the more knowledgeable Messiaen players amongst you can help out with this Dumb Question....
Having stopped playing the organ 20+ years ago (organ exam trauma, change of career, left town, etc), I finally bought myself a respectable 2-manual Toaster and have been progressively dusting off my old sheet music.
One day, I'll get round to finding a teacher again and taking some classes but before I go embarrass myself in front of others, I'm doing abit of note-bashing.
I'm currently relearning the last significant piece I learnt before I stopped - Messiaen's Transport de Joie from L'Ascension. It's been surprising how many of the chords/running passages have fallen back under my fingers/feet (at speeds variable) but, for the life of me, I cannot recall how to articulate the slurs marked between the LH and RH chords in the following 2 passages:
Third bar (5/8) and fourth bar (2/4) of the Third section marked Vif (ie, the FFF one)
Tenth and eleventh bars(both 4/4) of the same section.
I do recall that in these passages, the top line "tune" in both hands should be legato whilst the underlying chords should be staccato/detached, but are the notes marked by slurs between the staves to be held over or detached? My teacher must have told me but I never wrote it on my copy *idiot me*.
Anyone care to enlighten me?
Cheers
Kraammoz
I was taught that these notes should not be repeated by the RH (just as one might treat notes communes in a piece of Franck, Guilmant or Dupré), but released with the rest of the staccato chords. This ensures that the doubled legato melody here is a seamless legato.
Bonne chance!
IFB
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...the McKie or the Gower version?
Did I see Worcester on your signature?
McKie with a few additions here; a few subtractions there.
Yes, we moved to Worcester last month.
All best
Ian
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If anyone's in the Gloucestershire area on Saturday 27th September, it would be good to see you.
Coffee & Cake Concert on the superb 3-manual Hill organ of Dursley Parish Church, 10.30 - 11.30 am
Ian Ball (Worcester)
PROGRAMME
Bach: Prelude & Fugue in D major BWV 532
Elgar: Andante espressivo (from Sonata No 1 in G)
Mozart: Fantasia in F minor K608
Briggs: Trio Sonata
Hakim (transcribed Ball): Mihtar Youssef
Walton: Orb & Sceptre
Church website: http://www.dursleyparishchurch.org.uk/
Organ info: http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...51#PhotoSection
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Yes, and it must be noted that compared with a Cavaillé-Coll, a late romantic Link
is more subtle and more suited to the polyphony; scales (save
the 8' Principal which is large) and wind pressures are moderate. The Link brothers
apprenticed with E-F Walcker, and it shows.
It is easy here to compare between those schools since we are just between and
partake of them all.
Pierre
Interesting. I like successful compromises between different national styles. We've been doing it in the UK for centuries. Brahms, Rheinberger et al work just as well on a mid to late 19th century Nicholson, Gray and Davidson, Michell & Thynne, Hill, Whiteley, Wadsworth, Forster & Andrews, Abbott & Smith, Jardine, Binns etc. Thank goodness these builders' styles are now being appreciated again for their considerable worth (i.e. not just Willis & Harrisons).
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Indeed,
We do not know much about "The Brahms organ", less, by far,
than for Bach.
What we do know is those "inner colors" to be inbelievably rendered
with organs such as this one:
http://jjbridoux.googlepages.com/eglistsai...oussu%5Bbois%5D
There is no need for something bigger, or indeed "brighter". The Mixture has
a conical Tierce rank (the pipes are shown in one of the pictures) and does
just fine, but it is rarely needed in Brahms.
Pierre
Looks completely delicious. I absolutely adore Jacques van Oortmerssen's complete Brahms disc, recorded on the Cavaille-Coll-style Setterquist organ of the Kristine Church, Falun, Sweden (BIS-CD-479). Passionate, tender, moving and utterly convincing. Indeed, hearing Brahms on anything neo-classical, and without such style and subtle rubato, now leaves me cold.
IFB
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Well I'm delighted with the organ I bought from Hall Green Christadelphian Church via Ebay last October, with a view to installing it eventually in our house. It was cleaned and rebuilt (unrestored) in the rear gallery of St Mary de Lode, Gloucester in June, by Anthony Hall and his team from Clevedon Organs. Very splendid it sounds too from its elevated position. Although the antithesis of the 18th century nave organ there (recently restored by John Budgen), the congregation love it and despite its gentle voicing, it is bright, musical and perfectly adequate in hymns. Under a choir it sounds much larger than it really is and has remarkable variety of colour and finesse.
The only addition I would make to reach the magical eight stops would be a Celeste (for home/choir use) or a 2' (for congregational use).
Great
Open Diapason 8
Clarabella (enclosed in Sw) 8
Flute 4
Swell
Gamba (bottom octave Clarabella, stopped pipes mitred) 8
Gemshorn 4
Oboe (full compass, heavily mitred) 8
Pedal
Bourdon (bottom octave mitred) 16
Few clues were revealed as to its builder, but some point to Wadsworth or Alex Young.
IFB
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Beloved Brethren
Since this thread commenced on 1 November 2006, I checked back on the RCO website today, and I notice that the membership sub has increased and is a snip at a mere 76 quid! Our best efforts to bring the annual sub down to an affordable price have fallen (alas) upon ears deafened no doubt by endless persons desperately seeking to acquire letters after their name.
Now don't get me wrong. I'd love to belong to the jolly old RCO; but being rather (ermm) tight-fisted, I am still wondering what I'd get for the dosh.
Are there any developments since the Birmingham debacle to encourage one to remember the college in one's will?
In short, what news the RCO?
erm...loyal members got offered the opportunity to take out an exclusive RCO credit card. Does that count?
Oh, I nearly forgot, and the chance to congratulate yet more deserving Honorary Fellows, for whom a lifetime's dedicated service to our Art has spared them the vulgar exigencies of transposition, score reading, figured bass, improvisation, harmony, counterpoint, history, composition...
I wonder if things would be different if K.B. Lyndon were still Clerk? If prospective members couldn't demonstrate they owned a decent fountain pen, I think they were barred for life!
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Oh no! Too large and too much choice. In fact my house organ will be just 2 stops coming in September. Small is exquisite. When I was a young lad I could grapple with a monster organ and dreamed of doing so. No longer.
For my taste these days, a table for two is far superior to a Sate Banquet! But now and again one accepts the occasional invite!
N
But surely even the most simple meal for two intimate diners should include a decent mélange?
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Shame, though, on the Beeb, for failing to show the texts for either of the Messiaen pieces - perhaps they were afraid their religious content might offend some listeners.
JS
Oh but they did though, via the red button, together with an informative biography of Messiaen and information about the organ. Did anyone else swap to Radio 3 at the interval? They broadcast the pre-concert interview with Latry - extremely interesting stuff about his experiences of NDP and Messiaen (wish my French was as good as OL's English).
I too was moved to tears by the Messiaen (particularly Alleluias sereins). It was wonderful to forget we were listening to an organ; this was some of the most elegant, poetic and persuasive music-making I've heard in a long time. And all from memory. Wonderful.
But back to the organ... so good to hear someone taking informed, intelligent decisions about the registration: French Horn in Alleluias sereins; those sublime crescendi in mvts 2 and 4, adding progressively bigger strings to the left hand and gradually building up the fonds in the right hand (that's why you need 5 open diapasons on the Great!); and that incredible diminuendo right at the end. Blissful. I want to hear that at Wanamaker now!
The Saint-Saëns was electric (although the Final was borderline too fast for the woodwind) with very good balance between organ and orchestra. Wish I'd been there in person!
IFB
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Just for the record, I played the Cochereau Adeste Fideles after Nine Lessons on 23rd and 24th December, and the Briggs In dulci after the Christmas morning service on 25th December.
Ahhhhh! Thanks for the clarification.
P.S. You might get another Cochereau (Venez Divin Messie) this year, Dave, but I haven't decided yet - plus, being Messiaen year, Dieu parmi nous will have to get an outing somewhere.Delighted you're learning Venez Divin Messie - my absolute favourite
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and...
Erm, wasn't David Briggs' Sortie on 'In Dulci Jubilo'...
Pff. The tunes are immaterial in these things really...
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When I was at Bristol Cathedral for one of the Nine Lessons and Carols services over Xmas 2007 I did hear an improvisation on "Adeste Fideles" (O Come All Ye Faithful) which I think was by Cochereau.
It was played by Paul Walton (member of this board) and drew lengthy rounds of applause after the NL&C services on both days that they took place. (I got to hear it both days as someone I know is a steward of the cathedral).
(Any chance of that piece being heard again this year, Paul?)
Dave
Erm, wasn't that David Briggs's Sortie (as also heard in King's College Chapel, Cambridge)? Some might say you could be forgiven for believing it to be the work of M Cochereau...I couldn't possibly comment.
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The Gloucester organ, I may just possibly have let this subjective view slip out before, is remarkably unsuitable for the job of accompanying the english choral repertoire. In fact its bloody useless at it.
Yes, that's pretty subjective! Many of us, who have grown to know and love the Gloster organ through daily use with a choir, would disagree.
IFB
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And so the organ emerges from the scaffolding at last. Check out these latest pictures of the new organ....
A
Looks absolutely stunning, Adrian. Thank you for these fascinating pictures - an invaluable historical record. Can't wait to hear it!
Kind regards
Ian Ball
(and it really does fill the 1000-seater church with sound!)
All Souls Church Bolton
in General discussion
Posted
I hope to get in to inspect the instrument over half term - will report back.
IFB