S_L
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Posts posted by S_L
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So it's 'horses for courses' and of course it's all down to contemporary 'tastes' and individual preferences. I wouldn't think though the overall Harrison 'integrity' will change much. What I do fear is that the Cleobury trend for Romantic "slush-bucketism" will advance further, and this would be regrettable. But given the stubborn residence of the present Director of Music of King's, it's probably more than likely than unlikely.I wondered why the OP had posted that title and have, so far, refrained from comment.
But I'd like to know what 'slush-bucketism' is too - and I'd, also, like to know what you mean by 'stubborn residence' - and will await your reply before making any further comment!
SL (late of Kings College, Cambridge)
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One Contrapunctus per week from the Art of Fugue (open score and 3 different C-clefs), orchestral score of "Les Preludes", etc...
Wonderful stuff! - it would seem that they don't ask music undergraduates to do that any more, and it's a great shame in my opinion!
I remember going up to University and finding the joys of 'Keyboard Techniques' on my weekly timetable. We started with Dorothy Pilling 'Harmonisation at the Keyboard' together with open score reading exercises by C.S. Lang (I think!) - and moved on from there! It was pointed out to me, very early on, that Riemenschneider had, coincidently, the same number of chorales as there were days in the year - and transposition of one each morning was a good wake-up call! Those lessons stood me in good stead for years and years!
Some time ago I interviewed for an assistant. We had eighteen, all with Music degrees, apply for the post. Eventually we whittled it down to six. We asked them to play and then to do some keyboard tests - transposition - harmonisation - improvisation and score reading - the kind of thing that every teacher of A level probably does every day! I gave them the first dozen or so bars of Mozart 'Symphony 40', the 2nd movement, to score read - the results were amazing and the music, mostly, completely unrecognisable!
I say - bring back Keyboard Harmony - Score Reading - Transposition - Improvisation to our undergraduate programmes!
And back to topic - I hope that your Induction or, rather, the Induction of your new Priest, goes well tonight!
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Well, if it is, there will be far fewer people attending and before that happens there will alomost certainly be a battle or two from members of the congregation, choir and, not least, the D of Mus!
Post Deleted - by Dr. SL
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For the choir, Locus Iste, or if you have a sense of humour, Elgar's Ecce Sacerdos Magnus. recessional : War march of the priests
I'm sorry but I don't think this is an appropriate suggestion - or, perhaps, I'm just lacking a sense of humour tonight!
I'm not sure why Ecce Sacerdos Magnus should be humorous! Liturgically, it would normally sung at the entrance of the Bishop - who will preside at the event - either to plainsong or, possibly to the Elgar setting.
............. and I can think of, at least, four settings of Locus Iste - which is the Gradual of the Mass for the Dedication of a Church and refers to the House of God rather than to the person of the priest. I presume you are thinking of Bruckner - which is a lot harder than it looks!!
'War March of the Priests' - great fun but I suppose it depends on how well you know your new Team Rector and whether he has a sense of humour. Personally I'd go for something else that was 'loud and splashy' at the end - just in case it was misunderstood!
I notice that, in several Dioceses of the Church of England reference is made to the order of Service being approved by the Bishop well in advance. The arrangements of the service are the responsibility of the Area Dean, and should sorted "not later than two weeks before the service". There are quite a few useful websites for the Induction of New Clergy which might be worth looking at - even at this late stage.
Hope it all goes well for you.
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Our practice in St. John's is to sing the Creed to Merbecke but everything else to a setting. This is as much as anything a practical move: we can manage to learn and rehearse everything else, but the Credo would tip the scales in the wrong direction. I sometimes find myself wishing we did the Creed in Darke in F and Coll Reg, though...
We had a similar practice. Sunday by Sunday, at High Mass, we sang the Creed, antiphonally between congregation and choir, each accompanied by different organs in the grand (now slightly defunct!) French tradition, to the Plainsong Credo I, III or IV on a changing weekly basis whilst Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei was sung to a setting.
But on 'Very Great Days' (usually once a year!) the Creed was sung to whichever setting of the Mass had been chosen for that particular celebration. Sometimes it was a long haul for the choir - and for the congregation!
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There is a Mass setting, in English with organ, by Horatio Parker - op. 18 - in E.
Does the Basil Harwood Mass setting in F contain a Credo?
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Happy Christmas (yes, it is still Christmas until 5th Jan) from me.
For those of us of the Latin (and Orthodox) tradition Christmas lasts for 40 days - until the Feast of the Purification of the Blessed Virgin. i.e February 2nd. Our Nativity scenes remain in churches and people are encouraged to visit and and pray before images of the Holy Family.
I was in the UK for Christmas this year and played, for the first time in 20 years, on Christmas morning in an ancient (Anglican) Abbey in the UK. My closest friend, the Priest, reminded his congregation, that morning, that the season lasted for 40 days and that they should try and visit the crib every day of the season. Living in his vicarage I was able to see a small but steady procession of visitors every day.
Now back home I, again, have access to my computer and to this site and so - A Happy Christmas to all!
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No response after two days!
........................ but you have a piece that is beautiful and very straightforward, utterly charming and exquisite. Given your description, I would take that as a recommendation, and I would be tempted to look at other pieces by James Biery.
In another thread I have said that I don't recommend Wikipedia - but, on there, there is a description, presumably written by the publishers, 'St Louis Cathedral Choral Series', of a number of Biery's choral works. Given your words above, and their descriptions, if I were still 'in the business' I would be tempted to buy a single copy of, perhaps, Ubi Caritas or O Sacrum Convivium - just to see what they were like! - to, possibly, widen the repertoire and to give a choir a change from Durufle and Messiaen (both of which, of course, are wonderful!)
I think, in your, clearly enthusiastic, critique of the Cantilena - Mendlessohn you have, actually, recommended the music to yourself!!
......................................... but, perhaps, that isn't helpful!
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I don't, generally, recommend Wikipedia - but, for those who are interested in the Diocese of West Yorkshire and the Dales, officially the Diocese of Leeds, you will find it all set out, very clearly (?), including the status of Wakefield, Bradford and Ripon Cathedrals and of Leeds Minster, on the following page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocese_of_West_Yorkshire_and_the_Dales
(pncd5584 - Wakefield is advertising for an Assistant Director of Music - not a Director)
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However, I've always been of the opinion that there's only one descant for this...............................
I wouldn't disagree with that at all. I do sometimes find the Willcocks descant to Adeste Fideles a little tiresome, probably due to over-exposure, but the Irby descant I've always thought to be masterly.
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I agree about carols from King's- both the programme recorded for TV and the live Carol Service. For me, Christmas proper does not begin until the descanted (Willcocks, of course) last verse of "Once in Royal".
The David Willcocks descant for 'Once in Royal' hasn't been used at Kings for well over 20 years. The one usually sung is by Stephen Cleobury although In 2012 the Philip Ledger descant was used.
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The mere mention of 'Songs of Praise' brings back memories that I would rather forget!
I found myself doing a programme in the 1980's. At that time we had an ambitious Rector who saw SoP as being one vehicle for his further advancement! We, also, did a Radio 4(?) Morning Service - which was very different!
SoP was a nightmare! For some reason the BBC seemed to think that Catholics were at their best, if ever, during Lent (did anyone ever notice that they only ever, in those days, broadcast from Catholic churches during a Penitential season?). We had hymns imposed on us - my Rector gave me the list from the BBC, which included his favourite hymn, and I wrote a couple of arrangements - perhaps a re-harmonisation of a last verse for one and a descant for another. Another was a modern hymn whose accompaniment needed completely re-writing to make the tune singable. Then, after my work, the BBC changed their minds, one hymn was being sung in a Cathedral the week before and they didn't want a repeat and so on. All my work & time was wasted and I got no support from my Rector - who wanted to be 'on the tele!!'
The BBC was in the middle of industrial action by the Unions and they were leaving us to go to film at Salisbury where the, then, Dean, had refused to allow some aspect of the action to impede into the Close. So we had to film on one night instead of two! The Abbey church was tiny and was, at that time time, the smallest church they had ever used for a broadcast. We kept having to retake because a camera had, accidentally, gone into shot - and we were still there at 11 at night! - eventually some members of the Abbey choir we so fed up they just walked out!
Other hassles? They filmed in the Monastery attached to the church. The presenter was trying to film in the cloister when one of the Brothers walked down it. The Brother was told, in a non-too-polite way, to "move out of the way" and the presenter had to be reminded, from the normally quiet, benign and reserved Brother that "this is my home!" I remember the Methodist Minister refused to sing a hymn to Mary and stood, resolutely, with his arms folded and mouth tightly closed for all to see during the singing of that hymn! Political correctness came to the fore and we had to do more and more retakes to ensure that the BBC had shown a good cross section of the local population! There was an SATB 'choir', rehearsed on two seperate occasions before filming, and made up of local choirs 'in civvies' in the nave whilst 'the rest' were pushed into side aisles and chapels. 'Personalities' who rarely, if ever, came near the place were imposed on us for interviews - but they were told what hymns to choose by the BBC!
On the positive side I was impressed with the amount of care they took in preparing the programme! The East and West windows were very fine and scaffolding was built outside of the church for huge arc lamps to be erected so that the colour of the windows would be seen from the inside when filmed at night. The central aisle had grating down the sides of it and the movable cameras kept 'jumping' the ends of the grates. So they built a false central aisle and one man spent a whole day painting it the colour of the carpet and then painted black grating on the sides of it!
I don't watch it - ever! And I am thankful that I shall never have to do it again, thank goodness - but I got paid for it!
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If one uses a search engine, variously to include ‘Llandaff’, ‘Richard Moorhouse’, ‘Christopher Gower’ (a bit of a surprise) and ‘Jonathan Bielby’, links appear, which may catalogue a very sad tale of woes, musical and otherwise and which I do not have the will to pursue too far.
I am unable to get my (Christian) head around all of this.
I think that reading 'blogs' such as firstrees refers to is, often, very dangerous. I read some of it and, like firstrees, I am unable to 'get my (Christian) head around all of this' either.
I know, from my own personal experience, that the internet is full of 'blogs' concerning supposed failings in the church. There are pages and pages concerning the church where I used to worship. Most of it is, at best, ill-informed and based on hear-say or gossip, at worst it is malicious. I suspect the 'blogs' I have read concerning Llandaff are in a similar vein.
Clearly though there are problems at Llandaff. One hopes that they will be sorted, soon, in a true Christian spirit!
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Indeed. Didn't the choir of St Stephen's put themselves up for sale on eBay three or four years ago? Is there still music there worth hearing?
It depends on your definition of 'worth hearing' I suppose! The church is the city's centre for 'City Spirituality, Arts and Faith'
On Monday there is a Piano Recital entitled 'The Banks of Green Willow' which will include music by 'composers directly affected by the Great War' - it includes music by Ivor Gurney, George Butterworth, Ernest Farrar, Frank Bridge's rarely heard Piano Sonata and Maurice Ravel.
Sunday seems to be celebrated with 'Contemplative Eucharist' - now I can think of lots of very worthwhile music that would be highly appropriate for that, and that would be well worth listening too ................................................... but that's perhaps not what you mean ........................... or perhaps it is!!!
What is 'music worth hearing'?
Sorry to, possibly, open up a 'can of worms' - and I apologise for straying from the point of the thread - this is nothing to do with Handel playing any organ!
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A certain, well-known, ex-Cathedral Master of Music, famous for his wit and repartee once introduced the Boellmann 'Suite Gothique', at a recital, with the comment that the 3rd movement was often played at weddings! ......... It was also played at funerals! ............ the difference being that he played it slower at funerals!
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"...with immediate effect..."? Seems a bit drastic.
I can think of several reasons why someone might resign 'with immediate effect' and I'm not sure it is appropriate for us to be discussing it here.
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Absolutely.
Unfortunately, since Blackadder appears to have, as SL states, an over-inflated view of his own self importance
I never said this!!
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At the risk of experiencing the wrath!
................ a sense of humour failure - possibly
................. and an over inflated view of their own self importance!
Sorry if that reads a little brutally - but, on this subject certainly, I think that some members of the board need to grow up!!
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Ah - so you have played this execrable 'instrument', too?
I once had to play it for a concert (including a large-scale improvised set of variations). It is, without doubt, the worst organ I have ever played. and those enclosures which house the pipes (with their propped-up lids) look like nothing so much as a row of coal bunkers.
This is probably the only organ which I have wanted to burn.
I conducted a professional concert in Chartres Cathedral a few years ago and was given a private tour before the rehearsal which included the orgue de choeur and the opportunity to spend as long as I wished playing the Grande orgue. I don't know if you've been up there but there isn't a lot of space and the view is a bit scary!. The acoustic doesn't make it the easiest instrument to play! I think the orgue de choeur has been out of action for some time now, it seems, due to the renovation of the choir - which now looks completely amazing. Like AJJ I often stop in Chartres on my way home or back to the UK - i shall be there a fortnight today!
Can you really not think of a worse instrument?
..................... but I have strayed the thread off topic - for which I apologise!
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Several years ago I had the good fortune to sing at Chartres for the Mass. Whilst the Eucharistic Prayer was being spoken, the main organ provided an improvised luminous and mysterious backdrop that blended with the incense and refracted light from the stained glass - it was quite unforgettable !
Everything about the Cathedral at Chartres (with the possible exception of the orgue de choeur) is wonderful and the improvisations at Mass are usually out of this world!!.
I was there on the Feast of Our Lady's Assumption a few years ago, it fell on a Saturday. We had High Mass with the Bishop followed by a spectacular lunch and then Vespers which began in the little church just down the road. It was packed to the rafters and, after the Psalms had been chanted a huge statue of Mary appeared and was carried in procession, through the city streets, to the Cathedral. As it arrived at the West door there was a fanfare and the Magnificat began. After Vespers had finished there was a break and then an organ recital. I expected that the majority of people would leave but they stayed, the cathedral was full for the recital and, very clearly, at the end, there was a lot of affection for Patrick Delabre, the Titulaire.
The next morning we went to the earlier Mass, not the High Mass, which was sung to Plainsong in the choir. Towards the end of the Kyrie an man who was directing the small group of singers approached my son and I and asked us if we would like to join them for the Gloria!
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Okay, I am going to take a guess at: "Look at me - I can bark in Norwegian."
But what does it actually mean?
Good guess - but not quite right!
My dog can only bark in Norwegian!
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.................................................... Attempting to instill a sense of rubato and overall elasticity, as it were, is often like trying to teach a dog to speak Norwegian.
However, over the last few years, I have had some success in these areas .........................................
Hunden min kan bare bjeffe i norsk
Sorry - I couldn't resist it - and, having examined in the Far East, I agree with almost all you have said!
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Philip - it appears that you improvise.
A couple of years ago, on the Monday of Holy Week, we had a service of music and readings from the Gospels' narratives of the passion. I arranged for two curates to read certain passages (in chronological order) and interspersed these with musical commentaries on the Minster organ, which I improvised. The church was in darkness, except for access lighting near the entrance, the lights on the choir-stalls and the candles on the High Altar.
The lighting and the passages from Holy Scripture (which were read beautifully) created a particularly reverent and reflective atmosphere, which I hope was matched by the music - although, since I sought to portray what had been read, it was not always quiet or reflective, but was (I hope) descriptive.
That sounds stunningly beautiful!
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Yes Philip, I hear exactly what you are saying!
We used to sing Missa De Angelus on Maundy Thursday which worked unaccompanied and which the congregation would sing without organ. The Liturgy of Good Friday didn't really allow for the insertion of hymns although we used to sing Passion Chorale (along with Taize chants!!!) during communion.
Our choir was a volunteer choir also and I do think it depends on how you sell something as to whether you can ask for more. One year we had eleven sung services, seven with full choir, the rest with different combinations of the choir, with attendant choir practices beforehand between Palm Sunday and Easter Day. On the Easter Monday we flew to Rome and, as well as singing Palestrina in the Cathedral at Palestrina, we sang in three of the major Rome Basilicas and to Pope John Paul II in the Vatican in the course of the week - we all survived, somehow kept out of the Divorce courts and had wonderful memories!
Guillou's succession
in General discussion
Posted
Slightly off the subject - for which I apologise!
I don't go up to Paris very often but, when I do, I usually attend Mass at St. Eustache. I was there a few months ago. There seemed to be quite a few people in the organ loft and the improvisation before Mass began was completely amazing - it was also, I think, at one point, the loudest noise I have ever heard - totally deafening! (A most 'unorganistic' thing to say but I really thought the instrument was going to jump off the back wall!). The voluntary after Mass I didn't recognise but, again, it was very loud, extremely virtuosic ('showy'), and based on very fast, repeated notes with continuous changes of manual and registration. The playing of the orgue du choeur at Mass was excellent and the antiphony between the two organs in Credo III and the Gloria Missa VIII was well timed - clearly both players knew the building and the instruments extremely well!
As an aside, I often sit, as a member of the congregation, in one or other French Cathedral (I have four cathedrals within an hour's drive from my home). All of these 'employ' a Titulaire but the quality of improvisation and general playing - (I heard some dismal Buxtehude a fortnight ago!)) varies considerably and doesn't come anywhere near what one hears in quite a number of the Paris churches on a Sunday morning - or, indeed, at any time! The quality of playing of the Orgue du choeur also varies - and, sometimes, it is really dismal!