S_L
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Posts posted by S_L
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The Grammar School system was almost perfectly matched to establishing choirs. I know of many very fine church choirs which enjoyed a certain symbiosis with Grammar Schools, where the organist was the music master at the local school. It enabled quite obscure or backwater places to have fine church choirs, and often, a school appointment would be tipped in favour of those who could act as parish organist and choirmaster; sometimes as a dual appointment.
How times have changed, and not for the better I suspect.
MM
The whole paragraph, I'm afraid, rather disturbs me and, perhaps, annoys me because it has a sniff of yearning for a past that is long gone - and,dare I say speaking as an 11 plus failure (with a Ph.D from a rather respectable University, to say the least!), that hopefully isn't coming back! Undoubtedly there is an element of truth in what MM says but, I have to say that, often, huge numbers of youngsters missed out on any kind of musical experiences or music education because of the 'bias' towards the music in the local parish church - and because there are only 24 hours in a day!. My own late wife was educated in a well-known grammar school in the north of England with a head of music who is now an 'international' figure - he was never at school, always away examining or conducting or playing for this service or that in a certain cathedral and when he was his teaching was limited and poor. Exactly the same happened to one of my sons and when I questioned what was actually happening in the music lessons (I have some experience of this) I was politely told by the Head that "we were so lucky to have Mr ................. here" He was surprised when I didn't agree. That music teacher is, again, a very well known name in 'music circles and, I notice, doesn't mention on his CV that he was once a school music teacher!!
Times have changed and, for music education, very much for the better. That the subject appeared in the 'National Curriculum' was nothing short of amazing (it very nearly didn't!) and, at least in my experience, whole generations of youngsters are being given opportunities to make exciting music that they were denied in the last century. The fate of the Parish church choir and, in some cases, the Cathedral choir where, interestingly I suspect today, standards have never been higher, is due to other factors!
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The subject of lights reminds me of when I first went to the Abbey at Erdington. The console was in an arch in a side chapel and lit from a light placed high up in the arch. The light was controlled from a switch on the opposite side of the church close to the exit to the sacristy and monastery. It was fairly common for me to practice until late into the evening with all the other church lights out.
The sacristan was a little brother, long since gone to his eternal reward, called Columba. He used to lurk around the monastery in the dark at all hours of the night. One night I was practising and finished around 10:00 pm. I switched the power off and made my way across the front of the Abbey which was just lit by the one light shining down towards the console. Through the door into the corridor where the light switches were, I switched the organ light off, someone had switched the sacristy lights off. I felt my way through the Sacristy into the Lower Sacristy – no lights there either! I was just about to enter the community enclosure when I bumped into something that moved – it was Brother Columba – before we knew it we were both on the floor!!! Eventually, after some wrestling, we realised what had happened and one of us found a light switch!
From then on he carried a personal alarm which, on several occasions, caused much hilarity amongst the community – and in church!! The story that the Organist and the Sacristan got into a fight was much exaggerated and laughed about in community circles.
Moral of story – make sure your console is well lit – but always carry a torch!!
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Does anyone have stories of having difficulty obtaining the agreed fee for a wedding? I played one this Saturday, and invoiced the 'middle man', ie the venue who did all the organising, which in this case is a college chapel rather than a church. When I stipulated that I require the fee within one month, they replied that they cannot make any guarentees..... I'm not going to respond to that, but it does worry me.
Yes, getting your hands on the fee can be difficult sometimes.
I played for a wedding, a long time ago, where the fees, this was the standard practice, had not been given to the Priest at the rehearsal. I spoke to the 'Best man' prior to the wedding and got "nothing to do with me, mate!" and the groom was suitably evasive too! The priest, who wasn't beng very helpful, told me that it looked as if this was one I was "going to have to put down as a looser!". I played for the wedding, it was pretty awful, they talked all the way through, the video-man had to be told to go back to his supposedly static position, no one sang the hymns (why do they feel they have to have hymns when no one is going to sing?) which were pretty inappropriate anyway and quite a few of the guests had, very clearly, been in the 'Cross Keys' next door beforehand.
I got my fee - but it did involve featuring on a number of the photographs afterwards - and asking the photographer, and the driver of horse-drawn carriage and the chimney sweep if they had been paid - in a not sotto voce voice!!!
As I said earlier, I suspect we all have hundreds of stories, some of them almost unbelievable - doctors in A & E will tell you the same!
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There was a piece that Henry Fairs always used to play, at St. Chad's Cathedral in Birmingham, on the Feast of the Epiphany. I don't know what it was, although I do remember being told once. It was jolly good fun and always brought huge smiles to the faces of the congregation - you really could hear the camels making their way to the manger. I don't know but I suspect it was French!
Any takers?
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In the film 'Brassed Off' the Grimley Colliery Band win through to t' 'Grand Finals' at the Albert Hall and travel to London to perform.
Sequences are shot travelling into London, the coach arriving at the Albert Hall and instruments being got out of the coach outside the hall. The performance sequence seeingly in the Albert Hall is very impressive, the band performing under the case of the great organ - except it isn't - it's the Town Hall in Birmingham!!
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sigh.....I wasn't being serious! Irony, sarcasm and the like doesn't work in print does it.
No it doesn't, does it!!
............................ and the written word often comes over as being more abrupt than is meant - and, for that, I apologise!
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Which church was it then?????
Work it out!!!! - or are you being - I can't think of the word!!!!!
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Mind you, anecdotal evidence suggests that The Queen doesn't much like organ music....
There is a lovely story, which I have on good authority is true, of a certain young Naval Officer being married in a fairly large church in London (where I was, many years ago, a chorister!) to a bright-eyed ginger haired lass!
They wanted to discuss the music and it was suggested that they might find their way to church one evening to discuss the possible music with the Master of the Choristers. The evening arrived and a rather large black car drew up outside the said church to be greeted, unusually, by several senior clergy.
The party consisted of the Bride, the Bridegroom and, surprisingly, the Bridegroom's mother!! After much shaking of hands the party were escorted to the organ loft where the Master of the Choristers was waiting to play some possible pieces to the young couple.
I am reliably informed that the Bridegroom's mother arrived in the loft and with a look of delight on her face said "I've never been up here before", jumped on the bench of the five-manual and played very decently!!
Of course Francis should be given a knighthood – and we should lobby the Prime Minister's office to make sure that he gets one!!!
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What a lovely way to celebrate a life cut short by tragedy.
I knew Ian Ledsham well, when he was in Birmingham. He was a fine musician. May he rest in peace.
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Daniel Cook from Salisbury Cathedral - to be Organist and Master of the Choristers at St. David's Cathedral. (Church Times 23-9-11)
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I hope this isn't a daft question, but what is the latter day ecclesiastical history of this abbey? When I was there a couple of months back, I saw historical placards both inside and outside the abbey stating that it was dissolved in 1790 and subsequently used as the town hall, but neither mentioned anything about any subsequent use as a church. Google hasn't been any more forthcoming either. There must have been some reason for providing the Cavaillé-Coll organ and completing the west front, and the chairs in the quire area would suggest that services are held at least sometimes. Is it used as a parish church?
It isn't a parish church anymore but Mass is still celebrated there.
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Catholic Cathedral Music ? What, pray, would that be ?
In the US it's strictly cowboy music, reel two of a "Sons of the Pioneers" movie.
Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY
Fortunately in the UK it isn't!!!
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My problem with committees, is that you never know who to shoot first.
It is especially difficult when ill-educated and ill-informed priests, knowing nothing at all about music, decide on this or that wording as part of an ill conceived admixture of prosaic styles and languages.
If the hierarchy read this, I'll probably be struck off, (or whetever it is they do to organists)
MM
WHOOPS!!! HE'S DONE IT AGAIN!!
Yet another case of MM opening his mouth without putting his brain into gear to air his own prejudices. Why doesn't he just express his concerns in the proper manner without having to insult people?
The Priest, a very close friend of mine, who spearheaded the new translation is both educated and highly informed and a not inconsiderable musician. He read Classics at Peterhouse, Cambridge, lectured there and at Oxford. He also holds a research degree in his particular discipline from Cambridge. A very fine viola player, I have played chamber music with him on a number of occasions. The very last description of him could be 'ill-educated and ill-informed'!!
Perhaps MM he ought to write a polite letter to his Bishop, the Rt. Rev. Arthur Roche, Bishop of Leeds, who was also involved to an extent on the new translation, expressing his concerns and perhaps even asking for help from his Diocesan Music Department so that he can be working in his parish to find or write new exciting music for the 'New' Rite - rather than grumbling about it. One of the reasons, not the only reason, that Catholic church music is in the state it is, and in MM's Diocese of Leeds it is better than most by a very long way, is because of musicians continually wanting to look backwards instead of trying to find exciting ways of presenting music for Sunday Liturgy.
I went to the Cathedral on Sunday and heard the new 2nd Eucharistic Prayer. I thought some of it was rather beautiful - certainly better than the last attempt which really did sound as if it had been written by a committee.
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Was the neo-baroque movement really underway when Hindemith wrote the Sonatas?
I'm not sure, but certainly, the great obstacle to playing them on a neo-baroque organ is the need to change registration quite often, which is quite difficult without something or someone there to help.
MM
Presumably Hindemith wrote the Organ Sonatas for the organs he knew. The first two sonatas date from 1937 when he was living in Germany. The final Sonata was written in 1940 and, by this time, he was in the US.
I read that the 3rd Sonata is 'remarkable for the large number of crescendi and de-crescendi indications' (http://www.hetorgel.nl/e1999-27.htm). Presumably this was for an US instrument - complete with Swell boxes and other aids etc. The first two Sonatas perhaps were written for German instruments with less mechanical aids!
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I see in Church Times that Westminster Abbey is advertisinig for an assistant organist from January 2012. Does anyone know where Jamie McVinnie is going?
Malcolm
Also the post at Worcester is advertised today and an exciting job going at Kendal Parish church!
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Hindemith was a true craftsman, wasn't he? Of course he was well known, in his day, as a wonderful viola player but I'm told by friends who play various instruments that the instrumental sonatas and the concertos feel, to play, as if they were written by someone who thoroughly understood the workings of that particular instrument and, of course, there are sonatas for almost all orchestral instruments, including Bass Tuba and concerto's for quite a number of them. I played both the 'cello sonatas and one of the concerti and it certainly seemed like that to me.
The 'Trauermuisik' for vla. and strings will go with me to my desert island and will be played at my funeral - in place of the clergy preaching!!!
================================Paul Hindemith could apparenty play every instrument of the orchestra, and understood the notation required of each. More importantly perhaps, he was a remarkable educator..........
MM
I am a pupil of a pupil of Hindemith. Apparently it is largely myth that he could play every orchestral instrment but, certainly, he played quite a number to a good standard and, of course, was a wonderful viola player.
I think the point I was making was that musicians playing the Sonatas or even the Concertos often comment on the very clear understanding Hindemith had for their instrument - what was possible - what was difficult - what was uncomfortable - what lay under the fingers etc.
His book on 'Tonal Harmony' is well worth reading too!
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.............recording of the Hindemith Sonatas was an inspiration to me around the same time. I still think they're among the finest pieces of organ music of the twentieth century.
Hindemith was a true craftsman, wasn't he? Of course he was well known, in his day, as a wonderful viola player but I'm told by friends who play various instruments that the instrumental sonatas and the concertos feel, to play, as if they were written by someone who thoroughly understood the workings of that particular instrument and, of course, there are sonatas for almost all orchestral instruments, including Bass Tuba and concerto's for quite a number of them. I played both the 'cello sonatas and one of the concerti and it certainly seemed like that to me.
The 'Trauermuisik' for vla. and strings will go with me to my desert island and will be played at my funeral - in place of the clergy preaching!!!
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The same could be stated for a plethora of similar events
Do you think so? - I wonder which events you are thinking about!
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Ah! So it was you who caused tonight's broadcast to be cancelled!
I never assumed the concert was cancelled!
I'm sorry - I must have mis-understood!
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Ah! So it was you who caused tonight's broadcast to be cancelled!
The concert wasn't cancelled - it went ahead!
It was just taken off-air!
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Human Planet (whatever that is), 'comedy', Hollywood - the Proms programming seems to be going the way of the dreadful Classic FM. What next, advertisements between movements? Bleeding chunk? Pop?
I'm appalled.
A festival of music spread over 9 weeks including the music of 119 composers - whose output is spread over 6 centuries - featuring some of the world's great orchestras and soloists - with music to inspire little ones - a young composers concert - a poetry competition - a chance to sing some of the works being performed before you hear them - concerts of chamber music - lunchtime concerts - pre-concert talks! - as well as the usual 'pot boilers'
I think it's wonderful - my only gripe, I think, would be that the Havergal Brian 'Gothic' symphony was not televised - but, there again, staging a work like that took so many performers that there probably wasn't room for TV cameras!!
What is there to be appalled about?
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Many thanks - I had seen Tysoe's name crop up and did wonder but I was sure someone on here would know. Does anyone know if its published anywhere?
Are there any other 'good' descants which are worthy of note? I quite like Christopher Gower's to 'Lasst uns erfreuen' - it seems to be a favourite down at Southwell Minster where I've heard it a couple of times.
I guess writing a really good descant is quite difficult in terms of creating something which is interesting but not too off-putting for the congregation. We've had this discussion about Christmas ones before I know, but perhaps we can consider the rest of the year...
Well... Do you know Treble Uplift by Andrew Fletcher? This was originally published by Oecumuse but they are excellent, all of them - as are the Organ Uplift volumes as well. There is also the Novello Book of Descants with some excellent examples by Christopher Robinson, John Scott (try his St Clement) and others. Also... Richard Marlow (Trinity Cambridge) a volume of two part descants - a speciality of his.There are several very good books of descants - Andrew Fletcher's and those, by Richard Marlow, written for and recorded by Trinity College Cambridge are excellent.
I am in the process of moving my office at home and so my music is all over the place. I think I remember a book of Descants called 'Hit the Roof' which contained quite a lot of useable material as well as some dozen or so descants written for Sheffield Cathedral many years ago. I have another volume somewhere, the name escapes me, and I can't locate it at the moment. Philip Duffy, late of the Metropolitan Cathedral in Liverpool always wrote very singable music - his double descant to 'Gopsal' - Rejoice the Lord is King - is very fine. In the days when I was running a choir he was always very accommodating about giving/selling/lending copies.
I always think that Descants and altered 'last verse harmonies' are a difficult area and that a congregation can get heartily fed up of them - especially when they get too many. I think a Descant together with good 'last verse harmony' lifts an occasion (it doesn't have to be a great occasion!). The word 'occasion' is important - another word derived from it - occasionally!!!
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St. Philip's Cathedral in Birmingham seem to do a 'Shortened Choral Evensong', largely on a Tuesday and Wednesday during the week, that seems to include:
Preces
Psalm
Office Hymn
Magnificat or the Nunc Dimittis
Anthem
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I'll mention it. I used to play the "beast" quite regularly, and absolute "tutti" is quite scary, with all the chorus reeds topped by the Tuba AND the Orchestral Trumpet. The Pedal 16ft extension of the Tuba is, as I described quite recently on the board, like a Cavaille-Coll Bombarde on acid.
I've also mentioned Andrew Leach, the former assistant at Beverley, who once said to me about the City Hall instrument:-
"On a quiet day, you can hear the bloody thing down at the docks!"
He was stretching the truth a bit, of course, but even Carlo Curley said it was possibly one of the five most powerful instruments he had ever played.
MM
The Spanish Trompetta or Trompetta Argenta or whatever it used to be called, that, I think, someone said is now in Monmouth parish church (or was it Abergavenny?) and that used to be in St Chad's RC Cathedral Birmingham was pretty devastating - especially when used by John Pryer as a chorus reed!
They reckoned when used at St. Chad's the congregation at St. Philip's Cathedral jumped - an exaggeration of course but fun.
(I remember Andrew Leach well. He was sub organist of Beverley Minster to Peter Fletcher and then, I think, went to Howden Minster as Organist and has just celebrated 27 years as Organist of Hessle Parish Church which, interestingly, since 1901 has only had four organists: Philip Chignell (1901-44) Harold Dibnah (1944-50) Raymond Taylor (1950-84) and Andrew Leach - quite a record!! - and there lies the possibility of a new 'thread' on organist's longevity - or has there been one!!!)
Cameron Carpenter
in General discussion
Posted
I had decided not to post anymore on this board and, indeed, wrote to JPM to tell him as such and to give my reasoning but this thread, possibly more than any other I have read, has annoyed me beyond measure, hence this post.
I can't say that I particularly like Cameron Carpenter's style of dress but I'm certainly not offended by it. It isn't important - I might have dressed like that when I was in my 20's - but not now and we have all, at some time, made fashion 'faux-pas'!!! His playing doesn't particularly do an awful lot for me either, I admire his phenomenal technique but think that his musicianship is, perhaps sometimes, a little misplaced but we can all look with a certain horror at performances we gave when younger and not as wise as we are now. I could say that about a good many other musicians I know, some of whom post on here! - and we have all heard performances, in some cases by distinguished players, where we have wondered "why do it like that?"
My grandmother gave me my first keyboard lessons. She was an FRCO and a fine player in the days when women weren't encouraged to pursue academic careers. As well as imparting a lot of music she also sort to instill into me what you might call 'old fashioned' values. One of them was that it is better to say nothing about someone than to say something bad or to cause them upset or to malign them in public. Sadly, I have to say that, I think, some of the comments here have not reflected those values and, in my opinion, have been less than one would expect from professional, intelligent, articulate members of this community.
Consider this without cynicism. If Cameron Carpenter is so bad why have the BBC invited him to take part in the countries most prestigious music festival? A festival broadcast throughout the world and a festival running at a time when large numbers of people ( I will refrain from falling into 'commentator mode' and saying 'the whole world') are focusing on other events also being broadcast from this country. Why is it that he has been invited, next season, to residencies at two of Europe’s great concert halls, the Berlin Philharmonie and the Mozarteum in Salzburg. Perhaps what some can't cope with are that some of the comments made by Carpenter in the 'Evening Standard' article. comments that, perhaps, don't live up to my grandmothers high ideals, and posted by Philip J Wells are more true than some of us would really like to admit and point directly at some of us.
I could go on but, in short, I think that some of the comments on this thread are reprehensible and some of them are not worthy of intelligent, articulate musicians or of this board..
I fully expect to be shot down in flames but it is high time this thread was put to sleep!