John Robinson
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Posts posted by John Robinson
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Personally I find the pieces played to be quite important and that the role of the organ and the organist is merely to convey the music.
I am beginning to think I am odd.
No, I think the music is important as well, of course. Personally, however, I like to hear and compare organs.
I once went to an all-Messaien recital (!) just to hear the organ. Sorry, I do realise a lot of people here actually like Messaien!
Now I'm beginning to think that I am odd.
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A practical point about Hauptwerk: the processing power required for a large organ is quite considerable (I see most people are building computers with quad cores and 8GB+ RAM) - and this means quite a bit of heat - and consequently noise. Do most people build water cooled PCs to cope with the cooling requirements without generating noise?
I suppose the cooling fan could sound a bit like a blower. Even more realistic!
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I couldn't abide an organist talking for so long - it would drive me up the wall!
But I wonder why so many people seem to object to organists giving their audiences a little (interesting and informative!) detail about the pieces being played. Surely it's our job to educate, arouse interest and inform as well as to entertain, is it not?
For my fourpenn'orth, I am quite happy for performers to speak about a piece if:
- it is brief*;
- it is informative; and preferably
- it is slightly witty or amusing.
(* I remember attending a recital in foreign parts - I think it was Germany. The organist rattled on for several minutes and, apart from the occasional word, I didn't understand anything. Then the priest got up... !)
I go to recitals to hear the organ and the organist, usually in that order (of importance, not temporal - I hear them at the same time, of course!)
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It's not before time that this organ was reinstated. It's been in store way too long, and is too important to be left like that. I understand the acoustic is a lot more favourable than it was. I sincerely hope that we don't go down the road of "revoicing", or of making it more "polite". It's essentially French character and very forward thinking in 1951 frankly left a lot of others in the shadows. The acoustic never flattered it, and I often thought how much more magnificent it would be bathed in even a couple of seconds more reverb.
R
Didn't the RFH at one time have an electronic 'reverberation' system?
How well did it work with the organ?
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After six hundred years? Surely - it would be toast....
Ha ha!
Which prompts me to ask, what is the aetiology of the term 'toaster'?
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Yes....I spotted the organ working too - and it was not long after they discussed trying to get the electricity working and decided not to!
It could have been someone jumping up and down on the bellows, I suppose.
Sorry, although I watched it too I have no idea where it is.
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We must think to the future. Can you imagine if you bought something like this:
http://pipedreams.publicradio.org/gallery/...caanonymous.jpg
and kept and maintained it for a similar length of time? It would, of course, be priceless.
Can you imagine what an electronic substitute would be like after six hundred years?
And it seems to fit the bill with regard to size, too!
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I'm guessing he won't be needing to put it on his Christmas list; he presumably already has a courtesy copy. Those demo clips were of him playing the HW version of the organ, not the real thing. But that raises the other $64,000 question: how many people, listening to those demos, could honestly say they could tell the difference?
I'm sure I couldn't. But then, listening to a CD of an electronic substitute and listening to a CD of a real organ are going to be pretty similar in that the sound will be electronically processed and coming from speakers in either case!
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Indeed - horrendous account of hapless Professor stranded 90 feet up and having to escape by walking a narrow plank across to the nearest window ledge, thence down to ground level and a stiff Schnapps.
Imagine having to do that at somewhere like Lichfield or St Edmundsbury and you'll get the idea.
JS
I'm surprised they don't have one of those fire escape 'rope ladders' for emergencies.
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I have just been viewing a Dutch video of a Baroque organ, which has what must be a replacement tracker action. I would have expected each arm on a roller board to have a single hole through which the connection to the tracker would be threaded.
In this case the arms have two holes, so the tracker could be hooked to the one nearer to the roller, or the further one. This would obviously give a choice of leverage. However, surely the motion would have been designed from the start to hang the tracker in one of the positions.
Could these be arms put together from standard kit parts, or is there another explanation for the two holes?
And, presumably, pallet opening distance.
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I'm not sure what's going on with Amazon. Play.com list this title as being in stock, so you might be better off ordering with them.
EC
I have just received an e-mail from Amazon informing me that the DVD has been despatched. So if anyone was hoping to buy one, they are obviously now in stock.
Patience is a virtue, I suppose!
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I find these all these DVDs very interesting and helpful and Priory are to be congratulated, not least for their good customer service over the phone.
It is also good to have organ DVDs that don't waste time unnecessarily showing the player taking his overcoat off and then putting it on again but, on the other hand, those DVDs (from other firms) do show us some wonderful organs in wonderful churches.
Malcolm
I assume you are referring to the John Scott Whiteley ones!
Yes, I agree that the bees, the wandering down the church and the overcoat removal are possibly superfluous, but I think the producers are going for the 'arty-farty' approach. This is evidenced in the strange camera angles used in some of the recordings but, rather than being distracted by them, I find at least some of them quite interesting, especially where it has been possible to record the actions and internals of the organs.
I think that there is the option, in some of the DVD recordings at least, to watch the player throughout rather than the 'artistic' stuff. I'm not sure, though, as I haven't watched mine recently.
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I think I might have one as a Christmas present from She Who Must be Obeyed.
I shall just have to be patient.
I hope you're right about the St Paul's one, but I haven't seen any adverts yet.
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I'm not sure what's going on with Amazon. Play.com list this title as being in stock, so you might be better off ordering with them.
EC
Thanks. I think you may be right. I'd prefer not to have to have my DVD player adapted, but if nothing happens soon that may have to happen.
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Were I in charge of TV graphics I've always been tempted to add after Howard Goodall's Organ Works..........."something which is of great comfort to him"
I wish Amazon would. I have been waiting since August for them to send me a copy.
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I'm with Ian on this one. The proximity of the Nave roof gives the organ a sounding board. The case roof was a lid. Some organs need them, others do not, you have to experiment and go with the solution that sounds right, not the one based on dogma, particularly if it is misplaced. I actually think, on the whole, it speaks both ways successfully, although we might choose a different disposition now, the principle basically works. As Ian has said, if you don't like certain stops, you don't have to use them. For me, I would probably have gone for a Solo reed before the full gamut of mutations, and a full length 32 borrowed from the 16 reed. This doesn't stop me from respecting the reasons why we have what we do. Ignore whether you like the sound or not, and consider whether RD and JN produced an organ that will lead a nave and accompany choral singing in the choir. In principle, I think they did.
AJS
I quite agree.
I wonder whether the 'roof' added to the Gloucester organ was an attempt to emulate the North German werkprinzip cases. But these are quite different to Gloucester: much shallower cases and facing one way in front of a reflecting wall. Gloucester, of course, is a much deeper case and needs to speak East and West.
The York Minster organ, on the other hand, has had a roof/reflectors fitted fairly recently and, I believe, these have improved its effectiveness.
As you have said, some work and some do not. The only answer is to experiment. As Ian suggested, a 'cabriolet' roof would be useful although, presumably, once the optimum position (or lack of) has been achieved there would be no need for further change.
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May I also offer my thanks to Robert for his information about the York Minster organ, of which I have a particular interest. Any further information would be most welcome, especially if this could extend to copies of diagrams of layout, etc!
If I may be allowed one specific question, what is the likelihood of realisation of the plans to add a new Nave Organ, and were there any specifications drawn up? (Sorry, that's two!)
John
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... Francis Jackson was a Cathedral musician of the first order...
Bazuin
He's not dead yet, you know!
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If I won £45million on the lottery I think I might donate a couple of million to York Minster to build a (badly needed) Nave organ. I'm sure I could afford it.
Before anyone gets too excited, though, I should mention that it is rather unlikely to happen as I am too tight-fisted to do the lottery.
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There's an interesting one. Speaking for myself, I am quite mediocre as a Pianist. I lack much of the extra control needed to sound musical.
Organ and piano are totally different, and obviously require totally different approaches.
I admire those who can manage both.
R
I admire those who can manage either!
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Amazing permormance (Gillian Weir)
Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drIp-2z_HnA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzNAWbjhwwc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29ziSIsqwNk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFS_UFCBFdo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5SAdO8FSvE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELR6lDUJbDQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7K5WDzh2oM
Thanks for these.
I have been trying to find a good recording of the entire series. I did record the original broadcasts on VHS, but it is not the best quality. If only they would broadcast them again, I'd record on to DVD. I'm not holding my breath, though.
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Absolutely - this is a great message board for those that love the organ, its construction, its music, how to play better, the latest scores, CDs, new organs at home and abroad, concerts, Utubes etc..!
It's not appropriate to have over heated quarrels, gripes etc especially if there is even the remotest risk of embarrassing the generous hosts - who I am sure have enough to do to run their organ workshop without having to moderate these threads.
And yes - Cynic please sleep on it - no one ever got anywhere through falling on their sword.
I agree. And we should bear in mind that, should things ever get too much out of hand and become a burden to our hosts, this site could easily be completely shut down.
I doubt that this would happen, though, and I for one would very much miss visiting every evening.
Personally, I am very grateful to Manders for providing this facility, and I think we should respect their wishes without quibbling. In the past I have got myself into trouble (not on here, I might add) by saying the wrong thing without thinking. Now I try to remember: if in doubt, don't say it!
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All they need now are some big double open woods and a few thunderous 32' reeds.
Not joking. I think such things would enhance some of their instruments which, although bright and powerful, seem to lack some 'bottom end power' for my taste.
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I had the privilege of playing the Altenberg organ in early August and can confirm that the acoustic Donner 64' does indeed exist.
The problem with assessing a stop like this is that one has no point of reference. There are only two full-length 64' reeds in the world and I am unlikely ever to hear either of them live. (I have heard recordings, but it is hardly the same thing.) So I can only take the stop at face value. Does it work? Well, I used it for the last three pedal notes of Carillon de Westminster and the acoustic bit kicked in on the final bottom D. I think it does - just, by the skin of its teeth. Clearly you have to use it with care. It is aptly named!
Unfortunately time was so limited that I did not have the luxury of working out how the 64' is derived. The organ has two 32' pedal reeds - a Contrafagott and a very vulgar Contraposaune. The 64' definitely uses the Posaune, but whether it is quinted upon itself or with the Fagott I am not sure.
The Altenberg organ is fascinating and I wish I had had the time to explore it fully - but I think that would take months. The Brustwerk Septime 4/7' is an improviser's dream!
A very striking case, too, in my opinion.
They also added some tubas at the same time, I believe and, yes, there they are in the specification. Tubas seem to be becoming more and more popular in Germany. It must be because we joined the EU!
Electronic Practice Organ
in General discussion
Posted
I found one really quite easy to spot without looking at the console or hearing the instrument.
It had two cases, each containing three 8ft pipes, and each being not much more than one foot deep!
When I looked at the console there were upwards of forty stops. (A Copeman Hart).