sbarber49
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Posts posted by sbarber49
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I think that Chant Donne was an academic exercise - It might have been a four part harmonisation (open score) exercise that was found in his documents if i remember correctly.
There is also a second fugue that has recently surfaced (legally available for free on the net) which is a nice piece for completists.
Neither of these have been published for fee legally as far as i know.
I wonder what else might yet turn up
Where is the fugue to be found?
The Chant Donné has been discussed before and was said then to be an exercise in open score format but I presume it has been published since it's a printed copy that I have a scan of. Do we know if Duruflé approved its publication and, if so, as an organ piece? Since he dedicated it to someone (whose name I can't remember at the moment) he must have regarded it as more than simply an exercise.
SB
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The Méditation is in a different league from the Chant donné as far as I am concerned. It would seem the CD is a bit of an academic exercise - to me at least it sounds rather like one!
A
Oh, of course, but actually the Chant Donné doesn't sound academic at all to me - unmistakeably Duruflé. A little chip from the master's workbench. I only have a scanned copy - what publication does it come from? Is it an organ/harmonium collection? (I know it wasn't written as a keyboard piece.) Presumably Duruflé approved its publication
I see Wikipedia lists the following unpublished organ pieces. Does anyone know anything about them?
Lecture à vue
Fugue
Lux aeterna
S
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I recently came across and bought a posthumously published Méditation by Maurice Duruflé - it has hints of the Requiem and the Mass Cum Jubilo etc. - not difficult and really quite effective. Does anyone else play this and why does it not seem to appear in any recordings of the complete works - at least not in the ones I have come across anyway?
A
I've played it - very effective. There's also the little Chant Donné which has been mentioned on this board. (Though I only have a scan and not a legal copy. Is it published? I haven't checked.)
SB
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Have now got it sorted, my father rang the Cathedral office, and spoke to Tim Noon, and the piece he played at the Liverpool organ day, was specially written by a organist from Trinity College, Dublin.
thanks
Peter
Can you say who it was?
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Apparently this may still happen - if, of course, the rumours are correct.
Re Kings.
Some info here: http://www.kings.cam.ac.uk/chapel/choir/co...anRecitals.html
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Probably not. The question of 'correct' editions of Buxtehude's organ music has come up on here before. Organists and organ teachers who are musicologically minded will look askance at anyone who today uses Peters edition when playing Buxtehude.
Or Bach, presumably.
Stephen Barber
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Wasn't that a version of the Jubilate? Superb piece whoever wrote it.
I thought Ms. Proudie was a hoot!!
There must be at least one equivalent of her today.
And a wonderful line "may you both live, for ever"
A superb series, I loved it.
R
Yes, Bourgeois's Jubilate. Can't say I liked the piece myself and it was far too high and screechy for the boys to sing (especially at Peterborough pitch!). I liked some of the other music. I watch the series on a regular basis (though not frequently) and love it, though I want to hiss every time Slope appears.
Stephen Barber
Stephen Barber
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Redland Park, Bristol has solo, swell, choir,- left to right.
So does Peterborough Cathedral. Very confusing.
Much worse, my 3 manual Harrison (St John's Peterborough) has the swell pedal on the left and the choir on the right. I still keep using the wrong one.
Stephen Barber
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I enjoyed much of today's (8th March) - the opening Slane was very arresting although I was not too keen on the treatment of Repton. Any other thoughts?
Peter
I didn't hear much of it but what I did hear I hated. I thought the treatment of Slane was a musical obscenity. Likewise Repton.
People should, by all means, do the music they like and that they find helpful, but, as far as I'm concerned, good hymn tunes should not be treated in the way Slane and Repton were. Couldn't we put a preservation order on hymn tunes; or have Listed tunes that may only be bowdlerized on obtaining a Faculty from the Archdeacon.
By the way, what was the time signature for this version of Slane? I was in the shower at the time I couldn't make up my mind.
I also hate the incessant scooping up to high notes.
Grumpy old organist,
Stephen Barber
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I bought the DVD yesterday - a bargain at £9.99 - and the opening scene is of the choir "conducted" by Donald Pleasance. So which one is you, Stephen? (The series was made in 1982....!)
Peter
I was the short one at the back, with a beard (long gone) standing between (I seem to remember) 2 tall singers - a bass and a tenor. I was singing tenor at the time (as an acting lay-clerk) but just for two terms. After that I sang alto as a supernumerary. (I had only just moved to Peterborough in 1982.)
It's a wonderful adaptation.
Stephen Barber
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In what way?
Does this mean you would prefer an instrument tuned to (for example) Werckmeister III? I wonder how that would work with a lot of the romantic repertoire?
I heard an evensong from Magdalen College, Oxford, a few years ago. Personally I thought that the accompanimnet to the Howells setting they sang sounded dire - purley because of the 'unequal' temperament tuning. I realise that Howells is not the only thing sung there (or at King's). However, King's do perform the odd bit of Howells, Stanford, Bairstow, etc. To my ears, this never seems to sit well on an instrument with anything other than 'equal' temperament tuning.
Sorry, I was indulging in irony.
Personally I think the King's organ is a national treasure with some wonderful sounds (especially the choir flutes) and is a superb accompanimental instrument. There can surely be no argument that the prime function of this instrument is just that? There would surely be no point in putting a Schnitger "sound-alike" on a screen in the middle of the chapel with no wall behind it? Of course, we could put another Gloucester organ on the screen. (Much as I love the Gloucester organ, I wouldn't do it in King's Chapel.)
Stephen Barber
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Kings? Oh, why doesn't this surprise me? LOL!!
A couple of old flutes are quite nice, but overall a very "glassy" sound to it, certainly not one that I would miss. A bit like like a fat Aunt who has rather too much stuffing at Christmas.
R
As long as the new one isn't one of those awful equally-tempered things.
Stephen Barber
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It all seems to have gone a bit dull now! A bit a controversy certainly makes like interesting! Cant someone persuade Salisbury that they really need a new Klais, or Truro that neo-baroque is clearly the way forward. We need a cause to get behind I feel.
Wasn't there a plan a year or two back to replace the organ in King's with something more in tune with the Zeitgeist?
Perhaps someone here would like to design a suitable instrument.
Stephen Barber
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I e-mailed Derek Bourgeois and his PA replied to me. The Barchester Choral Suite is still in manuscript and according to her has not been published - but Bourgeois made a small anthem out of the main theme tune for boys'/girls'/womens' voices called Come Holy Ghost and this is available as a download from Sibelius.
www.sibeliusmusic.com/cgi-bin/show_score.pl?scoreid=1693
Peter
The music was indeed composed by Derek Bourgeois. The choral music was sung by Peterborough Cathedral Choir, conducted by Christopher Gower. The organ of Peter Cathedral certainly featured, as accompanying instrument, played by Simon Lawford.
I was singing in the cathedral choir then and remember the filming fondly – including hearing “Slope's” sermon quite a few times, owing to passing planes etc. The music had some extremely high passages for the boys – often in thirds, I seem to remember, and the high pitch of the organ didn't make things any easier. In one scene Donald Pleasance is seen conducting the choir: his gestures were, to be polite, a little imprecise - needless to say, Christopher Gower was standing behind him out of camera shot.
Wonderful adaptation – now on DVD!
Stephen Barber
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Deed duly done!
And me, please!
Stephen Barber
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My experience of Hohl Flutes has been almost exclusively bad. ARE there any nice ones anywhere?
I like my Great Organ one! (http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=N03444)
However I wouldn't be happy to have it as the only 8' flute - there is a stopped diapason as well. I use the Hohl Flute as a solo stop and sometimes to produce a warm 8' foundation tone. It also goes very well with the 4' flute. It doesn't mix so well with the (small) open diapason.
By the way, can anyone suggest what I could use the Large Open for? How would it have been used in 1917 when the organ was built? It's so loud and unpleasant! I restrict it to occasional use, since it's there, for solos in hymns and for the last few chords in loud pieces in conjunction with the swell octave.)
Stephen Barber
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I would really like to obtain a copy of his piece Fetes (?) - the Mayhew volume concerned appears not to be in print and they do not respond to email - if you may be able to help please PM. I seem to remember that the piece is in fact dedicated to one of us on here.
Thanks
A
Yes, dedicated to me. Try the website his son runs: www.stanleyvannmusic.org.uk. You can find contact details for him there.
(I could send you a scan of a photocopy of the original - in Stanley's spidery writing. PM me with your email.)
Stephen Barber
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What a vile sound. Burn the organ. Or remove some of the 8' gunge and add some upperwork. Could only improve it.
It's not worth preserving: by all means preserve what is worth preserving but, to judge by this recording (and it could perhaps have been registered a little less heavily, especially the fugue) this organ doesn't do Skinner any favours. (I didn't persevere to the end of the fugue so I may have missed something.)
As for repertoire: the complete works of Caleb Simper?
Stephen Barber
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Through both of them having a sensitivity to the needs of the situation. As I said, only HG knows whether it's appropriate in this situation to extend good will or not. If the relationship is one of mutual respect, then it will work. Again as I said, I trust my organists to know when to charge and when not to. I can't answer for HG's vicar, and I won't be drawn into a face-off between the service provider and the ministry models because we all should know that things aren't as clear-cut. I try hard to make sure the organist can make a decent living. He tries hard to grow goodwill in the choir and congregation. With inevitable exceptions, we win both ways.
If the instrumentalist won't come to a rehearsal at a time convenient to HG then there must be a charge, payable by the wedding couple.
(It's possible, of course, that the relationship between an organist and a choir member could be such that an organist might wish to make an exception.)
Couples pay huge amounts for weddings and organists should not be taken advantage of.
Stephen Barber
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Great (enclosed except Open Diapason)
Gross Geigen 16
Hohlflute 8
Open-diapason 8
Octaaf 4
Harmonics
Contra Tromba 16
Swell (enclosed)
Flûte harmonique 8
Echo Gamba 8
Celeste 8
Contraposaune 16
Cornopean 8
Clarion 4
Brustwerk (enclosed - perspex shutters)
Barpfeife 8
Sesquialtera 12/17
Pedal
Contrabordun 32
GrossGeigen 16 (from Great)
Dulcie Arner 16 (from Antiphonal)
Hohlflute 8 (from Great)
Flûte harmonique 8 (from Swell)
Echo Gamba 8 (from Swell)
Open-diapason 8 (from Great)
Nachthorn 4 (from Swell)
Octaaf 4 (from Great)
Bombardon32
Harmonics (from Great) (from Great)
Contra Tromba 16 (from Great)
Contrabombarde 16 (from Bombarde)
Contraposaune 16 (from Swell)
Cornopean 8 (from Swell)
Clarion 4 (from Swell)
Solo (enclosed)
Holz Gedeckt 8
Dull strings 8
Nachthorn 4
Nazard 2 2/3
Cornetdeschats
Vox Humana 8
Bombarde (unenclosed) playable from manual 4, 5 or 6
Contrabombarde 32
Double Ophicleide 16
TubaMagna 8 (91 inches WP)
East Antiphonal (unenclosed) playable from manual 5
Dulcie Arner 16
More dull strings 8
Célestin 4
Dome playable from manual 1 or 6 (unenclosed)
Cymbelstern (digital)
Voix Mystique (from tenor C - part digital)
West Antiphonal (playable from manual 6) enclosed
Undamaris
Altar Organ (playable from manual 1 or 6, or from own Yamaha keyboard behind Altar using a midi connection)
Vox Aetheria
Accessories
Usual divisional pistons and couplers
One general piston,with stepper (2 memory channels)
Doubles off piston
TV (with “always on” connection to BBCi)
Some pedal extensions and "borrowings" proved advantageous.
Stephen Barber
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My feeling is that there is such a lot going on in this piece, with material being passed around the various voices, that you really do need to be able to hear the detail.
I wonder if there's a mature Bach fugue where this isn't the case!
I do feel that a pleno suits the piece better - whereas I prefer the "little" G minor ( and the A major etc.) on something lighter.
Stephen Barber
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I know Peter Williams says it needs to go slower than the Corelli piece, but not there are limits.
Sorry: either "not that slow" or: "there are limits". I seem to have conflated two thoughts.
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Please notice, that the theme of this lovely fugue is the beginning of the chorale "Herzlich tut mich verlangen" or "O Haupt voll Blut und Wunden" (Passion Chorale, "O sacred head"). Reduce the theme to half notes, take away the ornaments and you see it. So I play it at passiontide, with a nice 8' or 8' + 4' registration without a change.
Cheers
tiratutti
Oh no, it isn't!
Since it's from a "springy" Vivace movement from a Sonata it is (in my opinion, of course!) totally unsuited in mood to Passiontide. There are plenty of pieces based on the Passion Chorale so we don't have to slow this fugue down (presumably?) and devitalize it in order to pretend it is somehow connected. I know Peter Williams says it needs to go slower than the Corelli piece, but not there are limits.
I use a light principal chorus throughout. I used to change manuals but I don't now: the episodes are so short I don't think it helps the piece at all.
It's one of the few Bach pieces that I know I can get right even if I haven't played it for a while!
Stephen Barber
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A regular listen on my ipod is the first choral CD I ever bought. Its a reissue of an Kings/Willcocks Psalms LP and I don't think it can be beaten. Fresh, invigorating, lots of nuance in the presentation of the text, yet sounds entirely natural and unfussy. I also like the closeness of the recording, no swimming acoustics!
Hear, hear!
Stephen Barber
Duruflé - Méditation
in The Organ
Posted
It's presumably still copyright in this country?
SB