Jump to content
Mander Organs
tribunegallery

Liverpool Cathedral / Ian Tracey

Recommended Posts

Guest Psalm 78 v.67
And ... as/when you do manage to reach it ...an enormous range of possibilities is open to you!!

 

BTW I am particularly amused by the provision of three pistons to control the single stop of the Corona Divison.

I suppose they would go

1. Trompette militaire

2. TM plus octave

3. TM plus octave and sub

 

The Lord preserve us!!

 

Or alternatively, one of them might control pcnd's Chamades, which could be used as a sort of echo division to the Corona. ;):lol::lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Or alternatively, one of them might control pcnd's Chamades, which could be used as a sort of echo division to the Corona. :lol::lol::lol:

 

What do you mean 'echo division'? My Chamades - ECHO?!!

 

:P

 

I want you to know that I am keeping a very careful account of these posts....

;)

 

B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Cynic
Excellent! Nicely trumping the RAH...

 

 

I'm not sure where the owner of that site gets his information. He may be right, on the other hand, his information might be well out of date.

I would point you to the comment about the Lady Chapel organ which is here noted as Willis. It was fairly comprehensively altered/augmented by HN&B and (maybe more since, by others). It is not longer as Willis 3 left it anyway!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Barry Williams
I'm not sure where the owner of that site gets his information. He may be right, on the other hand, his information might be well out of date.

I would point you to the comment about the Lady Chapel organ which is here noted as Willis. It was fairly comprehensively altered/augmented by HN&B and (maybe more since, by others). It is not longer as Willis 3 left it anyway!

 

 

I note that Liverpool Cathedral seems to have acquired a 'Central Organ'. When was this installed please?

 

Barry Williams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not sure where the owner of that site gets his information. He may be right, on the other hand, his information might be well out of date.

I would point you to the comment about the Lady Chapel organ which is here noted as Willis. It was fairly comprehensively altered/augmented by HN&B and (maybe more since, by others). It is not longer as Willis 3 left it anyway!

Don't mean to be a nerd, but wasn't the Lady Chapel organ by HW II?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Barry Williams
Don't mean to be a nerd, but wasn't the Lady Chapel organ by HW II?

 

 

Henry Willis III took over the firm in 1910 when his father became unwell. The organ in the Lady Chapel was installed in 1910. It could have been built by HW II and installed by HW III. A number of organs built by 'Father' Willis were installed by HW II.

 

Barry Williams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Barry Williams

The Organs in Liverpool Cathedral

 

1. The organ in the Lady Chapel is thought to be Henry Willis III's first instrument. He was twenty one years of age when it

was installed.

 

2. A new 'Central Organ' is to be installed shortly. Details were published recently in the cathedral newsletter.

 

Barry Williams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Organs in Liverpool Cathedral

 

A new 'Central Organ' is to be installed shortly. Details were published recently in the cathedral newsletter.

 

Barry Williams

 

Why?

 

AJJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent! When can we expect the Echo and Nave bridge divisions?

 

Incidentally, does anyone know when and why the Pedal mutations were supressed at Liverpool?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Guys

Ian has just sent me the following item which may be of interest....

Q

 

====

Article in September Cathedral Life!

 

 

 

THE CENTRAL ORGAN

 

For some considerable time now, Ian Tracey and his predecessors have bemoaned the inability of the main organ to accompany congregations of various sizes (particularly the small and medium sized ones) in the Central Space, without simply overwhelming them from the single sound source of the ‘Great Organ’ in the Chancel.

 

As early as 1915, Goss Custard already had the insight to think of this and organs were planned for the North Choir Triforium, the Central Galleries, the Corona Gallery and the Dulverton Bridge. His logic being that the entire congregation should be supported by small units of organ in their immediate proximity (a view which, in the case of large buildings, organ experts currently seem to be of a consensus).

 

In recent years, several cathedrals, amongst them Canterbury, Worcester Portsmouth, and Exeter, have installed ‘Nave Organs’ connected to the main console, in order to solve this inherent problem.

 

The first three of Gossy’s planned divisions were built in the London factory of Henry Willis, and left in a railway siding near London for safekeeping, whilst Liverpool was the main target of enemy action in 1940. One April evening in 1941, it suffered a direct hit and all the pipework was lost. The Cathedral having suffered repercussions of its own during the enemy action, never managed to replace the lost sections, which has been a great pity, and even the console, which contained all the prepared-for registers, (in the oak box on the North-East side of the Tower - where the sound control room now is) was removed by Willis when they lost the contract in 1975.

 

In 1997, the Trompette Millitaire, donated by Dr. Alan Dronsfield (included on the original specification) was added as a Corona division; it has proved to be most useful for fanfares at major occasions.

 

The McKinlay family (family of Eleanor Wright, our Music Administrator for 16 years) have been looking for a fitting memorial for Eleanor; and it occurred to Prof. Tracey that adding something of the original ‘Central Organ’ would instantly transform hymn singing here, and be, in perpetua, by far, the most practical memorial to her long service for music here. The Chapter and Professor Tarn (Chair of our FAC), have endorsed it wholeheartedly. The following specification has been agreed between Prof. Tracey and Mr. David Wells. It is to be housed on the South Central Space Gallery, at gallery floor level, so as to minimise visibility from the cathedral floor. Even better that the project is self financing, and at absolutely no cost to Chapter.

 

The Central Organ is currently being made in the Liverpool factory of David Wells Organbuilders and is planned to be in working order for the installation of Dean Justin in December. The soundboards and majority of the pipework are by Henry Willis III (the builder of our own organ) so it is contemporaneous with that which is already extant in the chancel, and will blend very successfully and have an integrity with the rest of the specification.

 

A rather nice side issue being that, having had our title (since 1926) of ‘The Largest Organ in the UK’ recently usurped by the Albert Hall re-build, this new division, at 10,267 pipes (apparently the RAH currently stands at 9,999) will unequivocally reinstate us as undeniably the Largest Organ in the UK.

 

2007 Specification

 

(readers who would like to see the original specification may find it in ‘The Organ’ by W.Sumner).

 

 

Central Organ

Bourdon 16’ [61 pipes]

Open Diapason 8’ [61 pipes]

Principal 4’ [61 pipes]

Super Octave 2’ [61 pipes]

Mixture II-VIrks. [258 pipes]

 

Central Pedal

Bourdon 16’ [from central organ]

 

Couplers

Central Octave

Central Sub-Octave

Central on Bombarde

Central on Great

 

Prof Tracey says that, in order to complete the 1940 specification, he is very happy to receive promises for the Echo and West Organs…..!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why?

 

AJJ

 

Question answered - 'sounds sensible to me. Thanks.

 

AJJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps not unsurprisingly :unsure: I've been watching, listening (for months) and filtering the usual 'smoke screen' which always gets sent up the moment anything happens in that place or around the usual suspects. But to deal with the earlier items first:

 

Barry is approximately right: the Lady Chapel organ was built under the direction of Henry 2 - it is (or rather was) HIS specification and overall design. HW3 always tried to inform others that the Lady Chapel was his - and he certainly oversaw the job at the Liverpool end - but there is no doubt whatever that the details of construction are all HW2. The organ now bears little or no resemblance to the original: the HNB alterations were, at best, vandalism and the subsequent alterations/additions have done little to improve the matter - including a fractional-legth 32ft reed, on a two-manual job (?).

 

Now to the 'Nave Organ'.

 

We have the drawings (which were exhibited in the cathedral last October when the Rolls-Royce Enthusiasts Club was involved in the Anniversary Recital proceedings) and scaling information for those parts of the organ which were, originally, to have been positioned roughly where this 'new' stuff is to go: I say 'New' as we understand that all of the pipework is second-hand. To wit I'm fascinated to know from where ANYTHING of the scales required for stuff suitable to placed in such a position in 3.5 million cu. ft of space, could possibly have come without anyone else having heard of it?

 

Which of course begs the question "IS it suitable". A further question (which someone else also asked): "Why bother?".

 

We're only 750 yds down the road and will keep a keen eye on it all. I've no doubt I'll be incredibly impressed.

 

Sour Grapes - oh, no, no, no!!! We've got far better things to do lately: even though we're apparently not Liverpool's 'Leading' organ builders, according to advertising material.

 

;)

 

DW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In recent years, several cathedrals, amongst them Canterbury, Worcester Portsmouth, and Exeter, have installed ‘Nave Organs’ connected to the main console, in order to solve this inherent problem.

Not really true in the case of Worcester. At Worcester there has not been any attempt to add a nave division to bolster the main organ so that in can better support the congregation in the nave. (Well, OK you could argue that this was the point of the so called solo divisision.) Rather, at Worcester, it has been accepted that the main organ in the quire can not possibly be propped up by a few ranks of pipes in order to provide adequate support in the nave, and therefore the approach has been to provide an entire separate organ for this purpose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not really true in the case of Worcester. At Worcester there has not been any attempt to add a nave division to bolster the main organ so that in can better support the congregation in the nave. (Well, OK you could argue that this was the point of the so called solo divisision.) Rather, at Worcester, it has been accepted that the main organ in the quire can not possibly be propped up by a few ranks of pipes in order to provide adequate support in the nave, and therefore the approach has been to provide an entire separate organ for this purpose.

 

Isn't something small going into the Scott case in the crossing (along with the 32s) as well as a second new large nave instrument - or is this what you are discussing?

 

AJJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In recent years, several cathedrals, amongst them Canterbury, Worcester Portsmouth, and Exeter, have installed ‘Nave Organs’ connected to the main console, in order to solve this inherent problem.

 

I think this reference might be refering to the Worcester nave organ (not the reworked transept Solo organ) constructed by H&H in two moveable sections (paid for by the metal box company?) which was disposed of some years ago. The electronic thing took its place. The NPOR has this spec at

http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=N12743.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In recent years, several cathedrals, amongst them Canterbury, Worcester Portsmouth, and Exeter, have installed ‘Nave Organs’ connected to the main console, in order to solve this inherent problem.

 

I think this reference might be refering to the Worcester nave organ (not the reworked transept Solo organ) constructed by H&H in two moveable sections (paid for by the metal box company?) which was disposed of some years ago. The electronic thing took its place.

 

It is now here. You can still spot one of the old Worcester moveable sections (now firmly secure) in one of the photos - it contains the Positive division.

 

AJJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 2-manual nave organ in Worcester was able to play the transept solo organ and also a small number of pedal stops from the transept case, but was never in any way connected to the 4-manual console in the quire. Effectively it was an independant instrument.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...