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St Peters Rome


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Guest Roffensis

The story goes that there was to be a five manual Cavaille Coll in St Peters, on the west wall. However, a new floor materialised, and no Cavaille Coll!!!! The present organ is ok, and it suits the more accompanimental role of the Catholic tradition well, being ideal for choirs etc, but of course is never going to fill the church in the way an organ could. I think it is enough for the use it is put to however, but hopeless for big congregations, and lets face it with St Peters being literally THE father church of the world, that ought to be a consideration.

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The story goes that there was to be a five manual Cavaille Coll  in St Peters, on the west wall. However, a new floor materialised, and no Cavaille Coll!!!! The present organ is ok, and it suits the more accompanimental role of the Catholic tradition well, being ideal for choirs etc, but of course is never going to fill the church in the way an organ could. I think it is enough for the use it is put to however, but hopeless for big congregations, and lets face it with St Peters being literally THE father church of the world, that ought to be a consideration.

 

I'm not sure if it was a 'story', but ACC did make a proposal, which I consider a shame that he didn't get the chance to realise it:

http://www.ondamar.demon.co.uk/schemes/props/rome.htm

 

Looking at the size of the instrument, i'd say he was even 'modest' (just think the kind of beasts americans or vandenheuvels would have stuffed up there ....)

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I'm not sure if it was a 'story', but ACC did make a proposal, which I consider a shame that he didn't get the chance to realise it:

http://www.ondamar.demon.co.uk/schemes/props/rome.htm

 

Looking at the size of the instrument, i'd say he was even 'modest' (just think the kind of beasts americans or vandenheuvels would have stuffed up there ....)

 

Imagine a Willis or Hill sized for St.Peters ...

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Why not?

 

Benoît XVI spends his vacations playing piano, so there is

hope for an improvment in musical matters...

 

Best wishes,

Pierre Lauwers

 

Indeed, why didn't they get the chance ... Perhaps Mr.Mander could make a proposition ;)

 

But you're right, things may change for the better, when (also) Beneditus' elder brother is a professional churchmusician (Regensburger Dom?).

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  • 5 months later...

"dutch organs which usually have nothing more than 1 pedal rank a lonely subbas16 and dependent on couplers for any semblence of music from the pedal"

 

(Quote)

 

This is not true, Steve; the dutch organ is close to the north german one, and so has a complete pedal, like all the divisions indeed (Werkprinzip).

And Heva may not be charged with chauvinism, quite to the contrary. His tastes are rather close to mines, somewhat british romantic (he actually plays a Hill organ).

 

The only problem with american organs in Europe is we don't know them! we have

a Fisk in Lausanne now but that's it.

There is a communication problem too with the vocabulary. When an US builder says he made a french division, an european understands something like this:

 

Bourdon 8

Prestant 4

Flute 4

Nazard 2 2/3

Doublette 2

Tierce 1 3/5

Cymbale

Cornet 5r

Cromorne 8'

 

.....Scaling and voicing after 1750 techniques.

In an american organ we are far from that.

When you speak of power, an european imagines that in our big, resonant churches, so something that would work like an en chamade Antonov jet engine, while in the U.S.A. the acoustic conditions are very very different and call for a different way of organ designing.

Any european builder having worked in America knows that, but not the organists.

So don't worry be happy, there is no actual reason for dispute.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

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to heva of holland:

u mention here that americans would have stuffed st peters with beasts referring to american organs

 

besides the rebuilt christian muller at haarlem by marcussen and the schnitger at alkmaar what other world class organs do u have in ur country?

 

Steve, I'm sorry if the word 'beasts' offended you - it was not intended, English is not my native language and sometimes one failes the right word/expression.

 

As you may have understood from Pierre's reply, I dó have an interest in the British/American organ, and I would certainly be very interested to see an organbuilder like i.e. Dobson build a GrandOrgan for St. Peter - Rome.

Maybe our collection of 'worldclass' organs here in the Netherlands may be seen as 'more of the same', but our country is somewhat smaller than the US (but maybe the term 'wordclass' can also be used on (very) small historical organs in fine shape of which we have a _lot_), I certainly agree with Pierre that we're missing a good (and large) Skinner (like Girard College, or St.John-the-Divine, NYC) overhere.

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Steve, maybe a good plan would be to have some MP3s on-line where you could

present us with the best! I could link to it on my Website, which is the biggest forum worldwide in french language dedicated to the organ.

 

I too would like to have american -and indeed Mander!- organs in Belgium. Say three of them, of differing styles. Plus a 1920 A. Harrison in original state.

 

Best wishes,

Pierre

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I already have some links after all...

 

Go to "Komm, süsse Tod" , played

on the Wanamaker organ in 1964. (Written: "Come, sweeet death")

When I linked to that on my forum there were only two kinds

of reactions: Love, or.....Heart attacks!

I definitively love it.

(Would sound great at Worcester too, whose Swell would

suit perfectly...)

There are other pieces there I like less, especially when

the organs are a bit of neo-classical ones.

 

http://www.virgilfoxlegacy.com/discography.html#

 

best wishes,

Pierre

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.....u seem to think american organs r beasts

 

have u ever played one?

 

i play one that is a jewel

 

it has pipes made in 1900 in usa and england

also many pipes r from 1960 and more recently 1996

 

it has 4 manuals and 8 departments

2 greats

2 swells

1 choir

1 solo

2 pedals

 

1 real 32 foot untersatz

 

every department except one has a mixture

 

the chorus reeds have german shallots

 

when i play this organ i am sent to heaven

 

the sound is ethereal

it is indescribable

u r gravely in error and arrogant to state that american-made pipe organs r beasts

i wouldnt trade the most insignificant one of them for 10 of ur average dutch organs which usually have nothing more than 1 pedal rank a lonely subbas16 and dependent on couplers for any semblence of music from the pedal

I hazard a guess, but is that by some chance the organ of West Point Military Academy?

 

Dave

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to mr heva of holland

 

all is forgotten

 

as for st peter i would not hire dobson

john h hendriksen of holland who was head voicer at aeolian-skinner said he would do a grand organ for st peter at cost no charge for labor or profit and he has already done so in mexico for a cathedral in the yucatan and the results r stunning as a video was made and he is interviewed on there as well as some playing by fred hohman an eccentric usa organist.

 

Hmmm, sounds interesting - you don't happen to know an eccentric billionaire who might fund an organ for St.Peter's?

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